Vegas Cineform performance worse than native m2t at DVinfo.net

Kevin Janisch · November 5th, 2007, 02:32 PM

Hi guys, capturing some HDV footage from my fresh out of the box XHA1 and all is well. The imported HDV m2t files play great, even while adding levels, color correcting, saturation, and even Magic Bullet (some stutter with MB) in Best->Full preview mode, amazingly close performance to DV. I then render out an intermediary file using render as and select the HDV 1080 24p intermediate template which is Cineform. I import the new file to compare playback and the cineform file stutters with no effects in all preview quality modes except Draft. The m2t file plays more smoothly with levels and color corrector settings on than the cineform file does with no effects. Am I missing something here?

Also, Vegas 8 cannot capture properly, it captures but only 1 frame at a time, so I have 2000+ m2t files which are only 1 frame long. I eventually just used HDVsplit which worked perfectly.

Mike Kujbida · November 5th, 2007, 02:49 PM

Kevin, I don't do HDV or use Cineform but the following was in the Vegas 8 Readme under Known Issues:

If you are encountering stability issues with the CineForm codec that was installed with the CineForm Connect HD product, please install the latest update of Connect HD, available at the CineForm Web site.

Kevin Janisch · November 5th, 2007, 05:48 PM

Thanks for the response Mike. I'm using the Cineform codec that came with Vegas 8 though.

Chris Barcellos · November 5th, 2007, 06:19 PM

Kevin:

You might want to download the Neo player program from Cineform. It adds the Cineform codec to Window media player, if that is what you are using. I think it works with the other players...

Chris Barcellos · November 5th, 2007, 06:22 PM

Reply 2:

Also, I noted on another thread, issues of Vegas with the A1.... don't know what is up there. We have similar problem with 24p coming from HV20. Cannot really do pull down with Vegas. Cineform's NeoHDV actually performs the required pulldown, and converts or flips to boot. So you might want to consider that addition to your arsenal.

Cary Lee · November 5th, 2007, 10:48 PM

I've used the NeoHDV and Cineform HD with Vegas 8 pro and encountered no problems ever since I downloaded the latest version from the Cineform site.

Ian Hay · November 6th, 2007, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Janisch

Thanks for the response Mike. I'm using the Cineform codec that came with Vegas 8 though.

Unfortunately, the Cineform codec that ships with Vegas 8 is a much older version of the codec. Cineform's stand-alone products (NEO HDV, etc) ship with v. 3.3. The version shipped with Vegas is v. 2.8. You can verify this by checking the properties of CFHD.DLL in the Program Files/Sony/Vegas Pro 8 folder. Cineform products like NEO HDV use the Windows/System32 folder, although there shouldn't be a copy there if you haven't installed any Cineform products. You can also check the clip properties, under "media" of a cineform file on the timeline.

The problems you are experiencing may be an issue/bug/limitation in the 2.8 version.

If you download the trial version of NEO HDV (15 day fully functional trial) you can check to see whether this solves the issue.

Consider moving this topic to the Cineform forum to catch David Newman's attention. He may have further insight.

Kevin Janisch · November 6th, 2007, 12:51 PM

Thanks guys for the replies. Just tried the trial of HD NEO and playback is exactly the same as with a render to intermediate file within Vegas 8. On the m2t file it is a solid 24fps out the gate. The Cineform file is 16fps and it takes 2-3 seconds to ramp up to that. This is under the Preview-Half mode. After the NEO install, version 3.3 codec is listed under the clip's properties. I haven't done a windows update in a while, so maybe this is the issue as stated on Cineform's site. How do I move this thread to the Cineform section?

Specs:

HP Pavilion Laptop DV9000t Core2Duo 2.0GHz
2GB Ram
512MB Video Card
Vegas 8
7200 Harddrive
Capture Drive: Lacie 2TB USB External
Canon XHA1, 24F

Kevin Janisch · November 7th, 2007, 11:16 AM

I actually have fixed the problem. Not too sure what was the culprit, but reinstalled Vegas after the windows update, and Cineform performance seemed to improve, about on par with the native m2t file. On a hunch, I uninstalled Vegas 8, NEO, NEO player, restarted and installed just Vegas 8. Now I'm seeing a performance gain with Cineform, roughtly 5-6 fps faster with heavy effects than the native m2t. this is using the Render to Intermediate file in Vegas using 2.8 codec whereas before the reinstall, 3.3 codec was used.

November 5th, 2007, 02:32 PM	#1
Kevin Janisch Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 406	Vegas Cineform performance worse than native m2t Hi guys, capturing some HDV footage from my fresh out of the box XHA1 and all is well. The imported HDV m2t files play great, even while adding levels, color correcting, saturation, and even Magic Bullet (some stutter with MB) in Best->Full preview mode, amazingly close performance to DV. I then render out an intermediary file using render as and select the HDV 1080 24p intermediate template which is Cineform. I import the new file to compare playback and the cineform file stutters with no effects in all preview quality modes except Draft. The m2t file plays more smoothly with levels and color corrector settings on than the cineform file does with no effects. Am I missing something here? Also, Vegas 8 cannot capture properly, it captures but only 1 frame at a time, so I have 2000+ m2t files which are only 1 frame long. I eventually just used HDVsplit which worked perfectly.

November 5th, 2007, 06:19 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Kevin: You might want to download the Neo player program from Cineform. It adds the Cineform codec to Window media player, if that is what you are using. I think it works with the other players... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

November 5th, 2007, 06:22 PM	#5
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Reply 2: Also, I noted on another thread, issues of Vegas with the A1.... don't know what is up there. We have similar problem with 24p coming from HV20. Cannot really do pull down with Vegas. Cineform's NeoHDV actually performs the required pulldown, and converts or flips to boot. So you might want to consider that addition to your arsenal. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

November 5th, 2007, 10:48 PM	#6
Cary Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood USA Posts: 128	I've used the NeoHDV and Cineform HD with Vegas 8 pro and encountered no problems ever since I downloaded the latest version from the Cineform site. __________________ Canon XHA1, SGpro,Flip,FF, RR Mattebox, Nebtek V-R70p-HDA with Canon, Nikkor Primes 24mm f2.8, 28mm f2.8, 35mm f2.0, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.4, 105mm f1.8, 135mm f2.0, and 300mm f4.0.

November 5th, 2007, 02:49 PM	#2
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Kevin, I don't do HDV or use Cineform but the following was in the Vegas 8 Readme under Known Issues: If you are encountering stability issues with the CineForm codec that was installed with the CineForm Connect HD product, please install the latest update of Connect HD, available at the CineForm Web site.

November 5th, 2007, 05:48 PM	#3
Kevin Janisch Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 406	Thanks for the response Mike. I'm using the Cineform codec that came with Vegas 8 though.

November 6th, 2007, 12:51 PM	#8
Kevin Janisch Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 406	Thanks guys for the replies. Just tried the trial of HD NEO and playback is exactly the same as with a render to intermediate file within Vegas 8. On the m2t file it is a solid 24fps out the gate. The Cineform file is 16fps and it takes 2-3 seconds to ramp up to that. This is under the Preview-Half mode. After the NEO install, version 3.3 codec is listed under the clip's properties. I haven't done a windows update in a while, so maybe this is the issue as stated on Cineform's site. How do I move this thread to the Cineform section? Specs: HP Pavilion Laptop DV9000t Core2Duo 2.0GHz 2GB Ram 512MB Video Card Vegas 8 7200 Harddrive Capture Drive: Lacie 2TB USB External Canon XHA1, 24F

November 7th, 2007, 11:16 AM	#9
Kevin Janisch Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 406	I actually have fixed the problem. Not too sure what was the culprit, but reinstalled Vegas after the windows update, and Cineform performance seemed to improve, about on par with the native m2t file. On a hunch, I uninstalled Vegas 8, NEO, NEO player, restarted and installed just Vegas 8. Now I'm seeing a performance gain with Cineform, roughtly 5-6 fps faster with heavy effects than the native m2t. this is using the Render to Intermediate file in Vegas using 2.8 codec whereas before the reinstall, 3.3 codec was used.