Its another Vegas 8 bug -> Rendering at DVinfo.net

Robert Wheeler · October 27th, 2007, 04:39 AM

Ok, I put off actually trying to rendering until this morning because I sensed imminent frustration.

How right I was to just my natural instinct.

If I render with the "Close this dialog box when rendering complete" box checked, I am doomed. For, alas, after clicking this box the render never completes. It just carries on ticking away forever.

I have this feeling I am going to be finding hundreds of stupid bugs like this over the next few weeks. I never had a single crash with 6.0a, yet with 8.0a it is like I have struck the peninsula of Crashburg and the seagulls surrounding it are emptying their bottoms upon me with aplomb.

Mike Kujbida · October 27th, 2007, 07:39 AM

Robert, a lot of us (me included) have done several projects with V8 and have not experienced any of the problems you're having.
I'd be more inclined to suspect computer problems.

Bill Ravens · October 27th, 2007, 07:52 AM

I'll second your comment Mike. Vegas 8 has been rock solid for me. If your system isn't up to the processing requirements, it'll lock up, tho'. One primary suspect, in a system that has plenty of CPU power, is the video card and drivers.

Robert Wheeler · October 27th, 2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Kujbida

Robert, a lot of us (me included) have done several projects with V8 and have not experienced any of the problems you're having.
I'd be more inclined to suspect computer problems.

I have to disagree with this sentiment. Although I am planning to upgrade my system in the near future, my current machine is well above the minimum requirements. I have in the past used a variety of demanding high end applications and not experienced these problems. My system has been very carefully set up, with the very reliable Intel 915P Express chipset and the latest drivers for all components.

The issue I have described is not the sort of issue that you would associate with a below spec machine. However, even if the machine was below spec, and if the application found it did not have the resources to complete a task, there should be adequate error handling for the program to indicate as such, and at the very least allow for a safe shut down.

The error I am describing is most likely entirely GUI related. The task completes fine if I do not check the "Close this dialog box when rendering completes" box. The resources required to read that checked box and automatically close the window are negligible, so all hands point to a sloppy piece of coding that is causing the lock up. That may not exhibit itself on all machines or platforms. But on my machine, it is exhibiting itself very clearly.

So yes, I am very disappointed with the reliability of this release.

Robert Wheeler · October 27th, 2007, 08:37 AM

And more odd behaviour:

I just had a project open containing one 6 second clip. I went to "file/save as", the program opens the file requester but does not populate the file list for about 20 seconds. When it does populate the file list, it hangs for two minutes, at one point displaying the "Not responding" line in the requester's title bar, before suddenly springing into life. There was no disk activity during this period, and I didn't think to look at the processor load.

It seems like it got stuck until there was a timeout somewhere along the line.

I'm beginning to think this is an issue with the way it talks to the Window XP API. I would not be surprised if it functions a lot better under Vista.

Bill Ravens · October 27th, 2007, 08:51 AM

I avoid Vista like the plague that it is.

Jeff Harper · October 27th, 2007, 01:01 PM

Robert, I understand. I have been using Vegas only since 5, but I've never experienced this kind of bugginess. I have a new workstation (Quad processore, Raptor HDs, etc.) on which 7 ran perfectly. Now, the biggest aggravation is as I move down the timeline, the audio peaks seem to need to re-build themselves everytime. (I know what you're thinking, build peaks for visible events is not checked).

What's worse, they don't always do so, and if I want to see them, which I almost always do, I have to stop the timeline from playing if it is, wait for the peaks to rebuild again, etc. Sometimes I must click on the video clip on the timeline to wake it up and get it started because the video clips will just be blank and I don't know what I'm looking at.

What's worse is I zeroed out my HD did a clean installation of Windows specifically to avoid the problems others were experiencing.

I must say, however, that it seems that 8 renders a tad faster, can anyone else confirm this?

Chris Barcellos · October 27th, 2007, 08:40 PM

I have done at least three small project on 8, without much issue. However, I did do a short and wanted to use the Magic Bullet Movie Looks as a filter. I was editing using Cineform 60i files which I had deinterlaced in HDLink on capture. I had finished and rendered a final version, that I only wanted to add the bleach by pass filter to. I opened a new project, and brought the 3 minute 20 sec movie in, added the Magic Bullet bleach by pass filter, and started rendering. It took 9 hours to render....... any body had that experience ?

Jeff Harper · October 28th, 2007, 06:47 AM

Magic Bullet really adds huge amounts of time to rendering, but that sounds way over the top. Which processor are you using Chris?

Jon McGuffin · October 28th, 2007, 08:47 AM

From what I have read here regarding the stability of version 8, it apppears much less stable than at this point last year when version 7 had been rolled out. There are always problems with a new release and people will find bugs and have issues, it just seems version 8 is more plagued with this problem than version 7. That's just my subjective opinion based on what I've read in the forum here.

I can't help but think maybe much of this does in-fact revolve around Windows XP vs Vista. Perhaps there are slight coding differences for the two and in an attempt to take advantage of Vista specific features, they have hurt the software overall for those running XP or Vista.

I have two copies of Vegas 8 still sitting here on my desk waiting to be installed when I see a few more revisions come out of Sony that hopefully address at least the majority of issues people are reporting here.

Jon

Bill Ravens · October 28th, 2007, 09:02 AM

Maybe you guys should read the release notes for VP8. There's a 32 bit floating point math option that changes the way V8 processes data. The odd thing is that SMM turned this on by default. Some plugins don't play well, if at all, with the 32 bit math. You can tell which ones by the funny little icons in the Video FX dropdown menu. At any rate, based on the number of complaints against Magic Bullet, I would guess that it doesn't work with 32 bit float. I really wouldn't know since "movie look" is not something I need or use. It's neither a movie look nor is it pleasant to view.

One of the side effects of 32 bit math is that it takes longer to process the video stream.

It's a SIMPLE matter to go into preferences and turn off 32 bit float. Tis will return you to the old arcane way of doing things with 8 bit math.

Jeff Harper · October 28th, 2007, 09:02 AM

You are correct to wait Jon. I was waiting also, but heard of two instances where clean installs over a new OS installation fixed issues. So I took the plunge. I view my upgrade cost as money wasted.

Funny thing is I have flirted with the idea of installing Vista to see what happens...

I'd probably end up going from the frying pan into the fire, so I guess I won't. But I have suspected Vegas might be optimized for Vista making it less XP friendly.

I also like the idea of better memory utilization with Vista, but don't know if that translates into any performance improvement with Vegas or not.

Robert Wheeler · October 28th, 2007, 09:19 AM

Al l the glitches I am experiencing, and those I have read from others are things that should have been picked up in the beta period. It seems that the beta stage got severely shortened in order to make a release date. The fact that this software has gone out with GUI problems is scandalous.

I would have held back on the update until my current project is complete, but the fact was we could do with the performance increase when handling hdv now we are in the colour correction stage.

To me this software is clearly still in the beta or even alpha stage and I would not be suprised if you see a b version in the next couple of weeks. I think it is rather telling of the state of the development roster that they are already on build 179 with 8.0a when 6.0a was back at build 99.

Chris Barcellos · October 28th, 2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Magic Bullet really adds huge amounts of time to rendering, but that sounds way over the top. Which processor are you using Chris?

AMD Dual Core 3800+. Running XP --not pro...

I had forgotten about the 32 bit issue, and I am guessing that is what is occuring. Not complaining about the result, just the time to get it...

Marc Salvatore · October 28th, 2007, 10:54 AM

Robert,

There are definately render bugs as well as other bugs that cause Vegas 8 to crash. 8.0a does seem more stable for me compared to the first release, but it still not perfect. I have a high end system that had virtually no problems with Vegas 7. I usually only start crashing as my project gets more complex. 32 bit also must be completely avoided for me at this point which is a shame.

While these may or may not be somewhat hardware specific problems, Vegas 7 was still more stable with the same hardware.

Marc

October 27th, 2007, 04:39 AM	#1
Robert Wheeler Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 118	Its another Vegas 8 bug -> Rendering Ok, I put off actually trying to rendering until this morning because I sensed imminent frustration. How right I was to just my natural instinct. If I render with the "Close this dialog box when rendering complete" box checked, I am doomed. For, alas, after clicking this box the render never completes. It just carries on ticking away forever. I have this feeling I am going to be finding hundreds of stupid bugs like this over the next few weeks. I never had a single crash with 6.0a, yet with 8.0a it is like I have struck the peninsula of Crashburg and the seagulls surrounding it are emptying their bottoms upon me with aplomb.

October 27th, 2007, 01:01 PM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Robert, I understand. I have been using Vegas only since 5, but I've never experienced this kind of bugginess. I have a new workstation (Quad processore, Raptor HDs, etc.) on which 7 ran perfectly. Now, the biggest aggravation is as I move down the timeline, the audio peaks seem to need to re-build themselves everytime. (I know what you're thinking, build peaks for visible events is not checked). What's worse, they don't always do so, and if I want to see them, which I almost always do, I have to stop the timeline from playing if it is, wait for the peaks to rebuild again, etc. Sometimes I must click on the video clip on the timeline to wake it up and get it started because the video clips will just be blank and I don't know what I'm looking at. What's worse is I zeroed out my HD did a clean installation of Windows specifically to avoid the problems others were experiencing. I must say, however, that it seems that 8 renders a tad faster, can anyone else confirm this? Last edited by Jeff Harper; October 28th, 2007 at 11:06 AM. Reason: meant to say seems to render tad faster, can anyone confirm this?

October 27th, 2007, 08:40 PM	#8
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I have done at least three small project on 8, without much issue. However, I did do a short and wanted to use the Magic Bullet Movie Looks as a filter. I was editing using Cineform 60i files which I had deinterlaced in HDLink on capture. I had finished and rendered a final version, that I only wanted to add the bleach by pass filter to. I opened a new project, and brought the 3 minute 20 sec movie in, added the Magic Bullet bleach by pass filter, and started rendering. It took 9 hours to render....... any body had that experience ? __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

October 28th, 2007, 06:47 AM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Magic Bullet really adds huge amounts of time to rendering, but that sounds way over the top. Which processor are you using Chris? Last edited by Jeff Harper; October 28th, 2007 at 06:48 AM. Reason: spelliing

October 27th, 2007, 07:39 AM	#2
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Robert, a lot of us (me included) have done several projects with V8 and have not experienced any of the problems you're having. I'd be more inclined to suspect computer problems.

October 27th, 2007, 07:52 AM	#3
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I'll second your comment Mike. Vegas 8 has been rock solid for me. If your system isn't up to the processing requirements, it'll lock up, tho'. One primary suspect, in a system that has plenty of CPU power, is the video card and drivers.

October 27th, 2007, 08:37 AM	#5
Robert Wheeler Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 118	And more odd behaviour: I just had a project open containing one 6 second clip. I went to "file/save as", the program opens the file requester but does not populate the file list for about 20 seconds. When it does populate the file list, it hangs for two minutes, at one point displaying the "Not responding" line in the requester's title bar, before suddenly springing into life. There was no disk activity during this period, and I didn't think to look at the processor load. It seems like it got stuck until there was a timeout somewhere along the line. I'm beginning to think this is an issue with the way it talks to the Window XP API. I would not be surprised if it functions a lot better under Vista.

October 27th, 2007, 08:51 AM	#6
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I avoid Vista like the plague that it is.

October 28th, 2007, 08:47 AM	#10
Jon McGuffin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 634	From what I have read here regarding the stability of version 8, it apppears much less stable than at this point last year when version 7 had been rolled out. There are always problems with a new release and people will find bugs and have issues, it just seems version 8 is more plagued with this problem than version 7. That's just my subjective opinion based on what I've read in the forum here. I can't help but think maybe much of this does in-fact revolve around Windows XP vs Vista. Perhaps there are slight coding differences for the two and in an attempt to take advantage of Vista specific features, they have hurt the software overall for those running XP or Vista. I have two copies of Vegas 8 still sitting here on my desk waiting to be installed when I see a few more revisions come out of Sony that hopefully address at least the majority of issues people are reporting here. Jon

October 28th, 2007, 09:02 AM	#11
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Maybe you guys should read the release notes for VP8. There's a 32 bit floating point math option that changes the way V8 processes data. The odd thing is that SMM turned this on by default. Some plugins don't play well, if at all, with the 32 bit math. You can tell which ones by the funny little icons in the Video FX dropdown menu. At any rate, based on the number of complaints against Magic Bullet, I would guess that it doesn't work with 32 bit float. I really wouldn't know since "movie look" is not something I need or use. It's neither a movie look nor is it pleasant to view. One of the side effects of 32 bit math is that it takes longer to process the video stream. It's a SIMPLE matter to go into preferences and turn off 32 bit float. Tis will return you to the old arcane way of doing things with 8 bit math.

October 28th, 2007, 09:19 AM	#13
Robert Wheeler Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 118	Al l the glitches I am experiencing, and those I have read from others are things that should have been picked up in the beta period. It seems that the beta stage got severely shortened in order to make a release date. The fact that this software has gone out with GUI problems is scandalous. I would have held back on the update until my current project is complete, but the fact was we could do with the performance increase when handling hdv now we are in the colour correction stage. To me this software is clearly still in the beta or even alpha stage and I would not be suprised if you see a b version in the next couple of weeks. I think it is rather telling of the state of the development roster that they are already on build 179 with 8.0a when 6.0a was back at build 99.

October 28th, 2007, 10:54 AM	#15
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Robert, There are definately render bugs as well as other bugs that cause Vegas 8 to crash. 8.0a does seem more stable for me compared to the first release, but it still not perfect. I have a high end system that had virtually no problems with Vegas 7. I usually only start crashing as my project gets more complex. 32 bit also must be completely avoided for me at this point which is a shame. While these may or may not be somewhat hardware specific problems, Vegas 7 was still more stable with the same hardware. Marc