Photo Size for HDV timeline at DVinfo.net

David Jasany · September 17th, 2007, 03:37 PM

I'm adding a photo montage to a HDV timeline. Project properties are HDV 1080-60i (1440 x 1080, 29.970 fps). Photos were originally in 4:3 format. I've resized the photos to 1440 x 1080 and converted them to png. With the resizing the timeline pictures show up in the preview window as a little vertically squished and obviously not in the correct aspect ratio.

How should I handle dropping 4:3 photos on a HDV timeline?

Thanks.
Dave

Douglas Spotted Eagle · September 17th, 2007, 04:15 PM

Either crop them, convert them, or back them with other media.
If you crop, you lose part of the image.
If you convert, they lose resolution.
If you back them, you have pillar boxes on the sides.

You need to decide which is most convenient to you and comfortable to work with. I can't see any benefit to working the images outside of Vegas, however.

Bill Watson · September 17th, 2007, 04:39 PM

In the past I've simply cropped them at 16:9.

Most of my JPEG's are about 3000x2000 pixels so I've just resized from 3000 to 2400 and cropped the pic to give me a 2400x1350 pixel image, i.e. 16:9.

David Jasany · September 17th, 2007, 06:34 PM

Thanks guys.

Since I have Ultimate S 3, it looks like the easiest method is to crop the photos to HDV1080 on the timeline.

My original jpegs are 2848 x 2136 and 2592 x 1944. I used two different cameras. Would you recommend using the jpegs as they are or resizing them down and/or converting them to png? If resizing before cropping is a good idea, what would be a good size for these photos? Using the jpegs as they are and then cropping them seems to work fine.

Also, DSE, your "HDV What You Need to Know" book states for 1080 projects to convert photos to 1440 x 1080. Since this is what I tried unsuccessfully, how does this relate to my project?

So in the future, when I'm taking photos for a HDV 1080 timeline, I have to keep in mind they're always going to be cropped (unlesss I want to back the pillars) and I need to compose the shot accordingly. Do I have this right?

Ronny Hofsoy · September 17th, 2007, 06:51 PM

Working with large images, from 10Mpix cams seem to be hard for vegas to crunch. At least if there are large numbers of them. Vegas 8 crashed several times due to heavy work related to big images.

Batched them down to 1440 and even 1024 width's in Photoshop before adding them to the timeline.

A photomontage often seem to be kind of boring, using animation 2d or 3d will add another dimension to the project and the 'enjoyability' will increase a lot. I know you just asks for dimension, but when adding 2d and 3d movements to the images, the optimal dimension will vary.

If you do this manually it will be flexible but takes a lot of time. Instead use som hefty scripts to get you leaping. If so check out different scripts.

You could use Ultimate s3 www.vasst.com montage tools as David suggests, or Excalibur www.jetdv.com.

I find Excalibur superior for high/vertical pictures as it tilts up/down for the full height of the picture without the pillar boxes on each side.

Each tool provides several methods of dealing with photomontages, i recomend you try both of them. They save you a LOT of manual work. But still lets you modify the moves to add extra energy.

David Jasany · September 18th, 2007, 05:34 PM

Just giving this a bump because I'm still uncertain about how best to handle 4:3 photos on a 1080 timeline. I understand taking the original photo and giving it a 16:9 crop, but then information is lost. And I understand using the original 4:3 photo and backing up the pillars.

But can the 4:3 photos be resized to a 16:9 format without cropping but perhaps at a loss in resolution? I've tried various sizes and can't seem to make it work. I must be really missing something.

This is my first project on a 1080 timeline so please bear with me. How do you handle 4:3 photos on a 1080 timeline?

Thanks.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · September 18th, 2007, 05:41 PM

This article may help you better understand your options.

Kevin Shaw · September 18th, 2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Jasany

But can the 4:3 photos be resized to a 16:9 format without cropping but perhaps at a loss in resolution? I've tried various sizes and can't seem to make it work.

The only way to fit a 4:3 photo to a widescreen video without cropping it is to stretch it horizontally, which would probably look odd depending on the content. So either crop to fit, stretch sideways or 'pillarbox' - anything else violates the laws of physics... :-)

David Jasany · September 18th, 2007, 06:16 PM

Thanks DSE & Kevin,

So the solution I was looking for is impossible. I guess I was still stuck in the SD world where it was a simple matter of resizing the photos, converting to png, and everything looked great and as it should.

DSE, thanks for the link to the article. It helped me better understand the dilemma and convinced me it wasn't my pilot error.

The good news is that if I don't mind dropping down from taking photos from 6.1 mp to 4.6 mp, my HC7 will shoot them as 16:9. No format worries! Of course there's still the matter of my other camera.

Bill Watson · September 18th, 2007, 07:16 PM

Same here. The A1 takes a half reasonable 1920x1080 (16:9) still shot.

Matti Remonen · September 19th, 2007, 04:33 AM

David: if I understood your initial question correctly, you should crop the pictures (or copies of your original) to 1920 x 1080, not 1440 x 1080 since still photos use square pixels.

Or am I completely wrong here?

September 17th, 2007, 03:37 PM	#1
David Jasany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 313	Photo Size for HDV timeline I'm adding a photo montage to a HDV timeline. Project properties are HDV 1080-60i (1440 x 1080, 29.970 fps). Photos were originally in 4:3 format. I've resized the photos to 1440 x 1080 and converted them to png. With the resizing the timeline pictures show up in the preview window as a little vertically squished and obviously not in the correct aspect ratio. How should I handle dropping 4:3 photos on a HDV timeline? Thanks. Dave

September 17th, 2007, 04:15 PM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Either crop them, convert them, or back them with other media. If you crop, you lose part of the image. If you convert, they lose resolution. If you back them, you have pillar boxes on the sides. You need to decide which is most convenient to you and comfortable to work with. I can't see any benefit to working the images outside of Vegas, however. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

September 17th, 2007, 06:34 PM	#4
David Jasany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 313	Thanks guys. Since I have Ultimate S 3, it looks like the easiest method is to crop the photos to HDV1080 on the timeline. My original jpegs are 2848 x 2136 and 2592 x 1944. I used two different cameras. Would you recommend using the jpegs as they are or resizing them down and/or converting them to png? If resizing before cropping is a good idea, what would be a good size for these photos? Using the jpegs as they are and then cropping them seems to work fine. Also, DSE, your "HDV What You Need to Know" book states for 1080 projects to convert photos to 1440 x 1080. Since this is what I tried unsuccessfully, how does this relate to my project? So in the future, when I'm taking photos for a HDV 1080 timeline, I have to keep in mind they're always going to be cropped (unlesss I want to back the pillars) and I need to compose the shot accordingly. Do I have this right? Last edited by David Jasany; September 17th, 2007 at 06:36 PM. Reason: clarify

September 17th, 2007, 06:51 PM	#5
Ronny Hofsoy Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tromsoe Norway Posts: 28	Working with large images, from 10Mpix cams seem to be hard for vegas to crunch. At least if there are large numbers of them. Vegas 8 crashed several times due to heavy work related to big images. Batched them down to 1440 and even 1024 width's in Photoshop before adding them to the timeline. A photomontage often seem to be kind of boring, using animation 2d or 3d will add another dimension to the project and the 'enjoyability' will increase a lot. I know you just asks for dimension, but when adding 2d and 3d movements to the images, the optimal dimension will vary. If you do this manually it will be flexible but takes a lot of time. Instead use som hefty scripts to get you leaping. If so check out different scripts. You could use Ultimate s3 www.vasst.com montage tools as David suggests, or Excalibur www.jetdv.com. I find Excalibur superior for high/vertical pictures as it tilts up/down for the full height of the picture without the pillar boxes on each side. Each tool provides several methods of dealing with photomontages, i recomend you try both of them. They save you a LOT of manual work. But still lets you modify the moves to add extra energy. Last edited by Ronny Hofsoy; September 17th, 2007 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Fixing typos, clarifying

September 18th, 2007, 05:41 PM	#7
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	This article may help you better understand your options. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

September 17th, 2007, 04:39 PM	#3
Bill Watson Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Noosa Queensland Australia Posts: 248	In the past I've simply cropped them at 16:9. Most of my JPEG's are about 3000x2000 pixels so I've just resized from 3000 to 2400 and cropped the pic to give me a 2400x1350 pixel image, i.e. 16:9.

September 18th, 2007, 05:34 PM	#6
David Jasany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 313	Just giving this a bump because I'm still uncertain about how best to handle 4:3 photos on a 1080 timeline. I understand taking the original photo and giving it a 16:9 crop, but then information is lost. And I understand using the original 4:3 photo and backing up the pillars. But can the 4:3 photos be resized to a 16:9 format without cropping but perhaps at a loss in resolution? I've tried various sizes and can't seem to make it work. I must be really missing something. This is my first project on a 1080 timeline so please bear with me. How do you handle 4:3 photos on a 1080 timeline? Thanks.

September 18th, 2007, 06:16 PM	#9
David Jasany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 313	Thanks DSE & Kevin, So the solution I was looking for is impossible. I guess I was still stuck in the SD world where it was a simple matter of resizing the photos, converting to png, and everything looked great and as it should. DSE, thanks for the link to the article. It helped me better understand the dilemma and convinced me it wasn't my pilot error. The good news is that if I don't mind dropping down from taking photos from 6.1 mp to 4.6 mp, my HC7 will shoot them as 16:9. No format worries! Of course there's still the matter of my other camera. Last edited by David Jasany; September 19th, 2007 at 05:48 AM. Reason: Grammar

September 18th, 2007, 07:16 PM	#10
Bill Watson Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Noosa Queensland Australia Posts: 248	Same here. The A1 takes a half reasonable 1920x1080 (16:9) still shot. Last edited by Bill Watson; September 18th, 2007 at 08:10 PM.

September 19th, 2007, 04:33 AM	#11
Matti Remonen Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 54	David: if I understood your initial question correctly, you should crop the pictures (or copies of your original) to 1920 x 1080, not 1440 x 1080 since still photos use square pixels. Or am I completely wrong here?