NEO-HDV or NEO-HD at DVinfo.net

Larry Secrest · September 16th, 2007, 04:28 PM

I'm going to edit footage from the Canon XH-A1 in Vegas.
I was told by David from Cineform that I'll need either Neo-HDV or Neo-HD.

HD is twice the price of HDV. What is the practical difference?
I've noticed that the I/O Precision of Neo-HDV is 8-bit while the I/O Precision of Neo-HD is 10-bit. That's the only difference I see on this page: http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm#FeatureSpecs

What does this mean for me on a practical point of view? Am I losing in quality by using Neo-HDV instead of HD?
Thanks
Larry

John Cline · September 16th, 2007, 04:40 PM

NEO-HD also has a maximum resolution of 1920x1080, NEO-HDV is limited to HDV resolution of 1440x1080.

Larry Secrest · September 16th, 2007, 05:15 PM

HDV is 1440x1920 anyway, right? So what's the problem?

John Cline · September 16th, 2007, 05:39 PM

No, that is not correct. HDV is 1440 horizontal by 1080 vertical. True HD is 1920H by 1080V. HDV is recorded to tape at 1440Hx1080V and it is stretched to display 1920Hx1080V upon playback.

Larry Secrest · September 16th, 2007, 06:02 PM

1080, that's what I meant and I wrote 1920.
Still why Neo HD instead of Neo HDV?

John Cline · September 16th, 2007, 06:26 PM

If you are doing only HDV, then NEO-HDV will be all that you need.

You will need NEO-HD if you are working with source files that are 1920x1080 or you are generating files that are true HD.

For example, I use the Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro capture card to capture the HDMI output from a Sony V1u. The camera portion of the V1u generates images at 1920x1080, but then the images are resized to 1440x1080, compressed to 25mbps MPEG2 and recorded to tape in the HDV format. However, the HDMI output of the V1u is taken before the images are resized and recorded to tape, so they are 1920x1080 and have not gone through the resizing and HDV MPEG2 compression. The resulting Intensity Pro files are 1920x1080, not 1440x1080, and require NEO-HD to maintain full HD resolution.

Larry Secrest · September 16th, 2007, 06:37 PM

I've heard that if I intend to do a lot of color correction even if I shoot HDV I could gain by using the 10bit capability of Neo HD, what do you think?

Bill Ravens · September 16th, 2007, 07:26 PM

If you're doing CCing, the more bits you have available, the better off you are to avoid banding. It's a slightly different issue when we're talking about capture from an 8-bit source. It's debateable whether capturing 8-bit with 10-bit depth is really necessary. I think not. But, most certainly, the more bit depth you have available for CCing and FX, the better off you are. When you go to render out to final form, staying in 10-bit can be very beneficial. Obviously, if you're going to an 8-bit format, you have no choice.

September 16th, 2007, 04:28 PM	#1
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	NEO-HDV or NEO-HD I'm going to edit footage from the Canon XH-A1 in Vegas. I was told by David from Cineform that I'll need either Neo-HDV or Neo-HD. HD is twice the price of HDV. What is the practical difference? I've noticed that the I/O Precision of Neo-HDV is 8-bit while the I/O Precision of Neo-HD is 10-bit. That's the only difference I see on this page: http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm#FeatureSpecs What does this mean for me on a practical point of view? Am I losing in quality by using Neo-HDV instead of HD? Thanks Larry

September 16th, 2007, 04:40 PM	#2
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	NEO-HD also has a maximum resolution of 1920x1080, NEO-HDV is limited to HDV resolution of 1440x1080.

September 16th, 2007, 05:15 PM	#3
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	HDV is 1440x1920 anyway, right? So what's the problem?

September 16th, 2007, 05:39 PM	#4
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	No, that is not correct. HDV is 1440 horizontal by 1080 vertical. True HD is 1920H by 1080V. HDV is recorded to tape at 1440Hx1080V and it is stretched to display 1920Hx1080V upon playback.

September 16th, 2007, 06:02 PM	#5
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	1080, that's what I meant and I wrote 1920. Still why Neo HD instead of Neo HDV?

September 16th, 2007, 06:26 PM	#6
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	If you are doing only HDV, then NEO-HDV will be all that you need. You will need NEO-HD if you are working with source files that are 1920x1080 or you are generating files that are true HD. For example, I use the Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro capture card to capture the HDMI output from a Sony V1u. The camera portion of the V1u generates images at 1920x1080, but then the images are resized to 1440x1080, compressed to 25mbps MPEG2 and recorded to tape in the HDV format. However, the HDMI output of the V1u is taken before the images are resized and recorded to tape, so they are 1920x1080 and have not gone through the resizing and HDV MPEG2 compression. The resulting Intensity Pro files are 1920x1080, not 1440x1080, and require NEO-HD to maintain full HD resolution.

September 16th, 2007, 06:37 PM	#7
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	I've heard that if I intend to do a lot of color correction even if I shoot HDV I could gain by using the 10bit capability of Neo HD, what do you think?

September 16th, 2007, 07:26 PM	#8
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	If you're doing CCing, the more bits you have available, the better off you are to avoid banding. It's a slightly different issue when we're talking about capture from an 8-bit source. It's debateable whether capturing 8-bit with 10-bit depth is really necessary. I think not. But, most certainly, the more bit depth you have available for CCing and FX, the better off you are. When you go to render out to final form, staying in 10-bit can be very beneficial. Obviously, if you're going to an 8-bit format, you have no choice.