Need multi-cam -- upgrade to V8 or buy Ultimate S3? at DVinfo.net

Mark Stavar · September 11th, 2007, 09:07 PM

Hi there,

(A question I also asked on the Sony Vegas forum)

I'm looking for some opinions.

I am going to be doing an event shoot end of October. A dance school concert, 4 cameras, audio feed into ProTools and recorded to disk. Obviously, multi-camera functionality is something that I am looking for.

I have Vegas 7, and it will likely serve all my needs for the next 12 months or so (though the improved titler would be nice, and I haven't looked closely into DVDA4.5).

Thus I am wondering, since I am primarily looking for a multi-camera editing solution, should I upgrade to V8, or should I spend that money on Ultimate S3 and maybe upgrade at V9? (Getting both is not really an option at them moment).

All thoughts and opinions welcome.

Ciao,

marks

Dave Blackhurst · September 12th, 2007, 12:22 AM

Hi Mark -
You might also take a look at VASST infinicam - if you don't need the whole S3 package.

I downloaded the VP8 demo, and probably will upgrade myself since the upgrade is fairly reasonable. The speed improvements are noticeable... and the multicam looked fairly interesting from what little I fiddled with it.

On first try, I think I prefer Infinicam, as the VP8 multicam appears to remove any EFX, and I usually CC and match my cams before I mix... I've got to fiddle with that some more and see if FX applied to the individual clips "stick", if not I've got to take a closer look at workflow... I'm still on the flat part of the learning curve with the update, so maybe it's a non-issue?

Jerry Jesion · September 12th, 2007, 05:55 AM

Mark,
I have just finished a multicam edit with V8 and in my opinion it is much better than script based multicam. The main advantage IMO is that the PIP preview of the cameras runs at 29.97. This makes accurate switching much easier. Script based PIP (Excalibur) has run 7-8 fps on my quad core machine even without any fx. Another advantage is that going in and out of multicam mode is very easy. Often there are sections of the show that have to be removed and that I may not remember exactly where they are. In V8 it is easy to chop them out and continue editing without any problems. It is possible with Excalibur, but is more difficult. Also one can switch cameras by just clicking on the video in the PIP. The only derog is that the control key must be depressed to get a disolve.

It is true that all clip based fx go away when enabling multicam, but not if they are applied to the media in the bin. I always did this anyway since I would disable them during the editing process and re-enabled just before rendering.

Excalibur is a great product and I have cut many shows using it, but having real time PIP is a big deal for me.

Regards,
Jerry

Edward Troxel · September 12th, 2007, 07:32 AM

Wow... I'm getting about the same framerates with Excalibur and the Vegas 8 preview.

Both have advantages. The scripts (Excalibur, Infiniti-cam, Ultimate S) have more "features". But the built-in version is more tightly integrated in ways that scripts can't be (i.e. clicking on the preview screen to switch cameras). I'd try both and see what was most comfortable to me.

Curt Talbot · September 12th, 2007, 12:33 PM

If you use an external monitor how does the new V8 multi-cam approach work? Do you need to use the preview screen? I use the VASST two-camera freebie and it works fine but it is a challenge to keep track of which camera is 'live'.

Edward Troxel · September 12th, 2007, 01:06 PM

Since the preview shows in both places, you could just click on the preview screen as normal. However, you can also use the 1, 2, 3, 4... keys as well.

Ali Husain · September 12th, 2007, 05:21 PM

in vegas 8, how can you go back and forth between a single multi-take track and individual tracks? it seems once you make a multicam track you can't go back to individual tracks should there be a problem with your synchronization. that's definitely a problem for me. i have footage with no synced timecode, and i have to line up all the cameras by hand... nudging them a frame here and a frame there. i'd really like to do that INSIDE multicam mode.

i've been using infinitiCAM for a few years now and it works great though a bit slower than i'd like (not the fault of the script).

i'm thinking one flow that might work for me is to line up everythign using infinitiCAM. then apply the vegas 8, apparently one-way tracks-to-takes multicam operation. then edit that way.

what do people think? thanks!

John Rofrano · September 12th, 2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ali Husain

it seems once you make a multicam track you can't go back to individual tracks should there be a problem with your synchronization.

That is one of the drawbacks to using the native mutlie-cam in Vegas 8. Once you combine the tracks you cannot go back. infinitiCAM, Ultimate S, and Excalibur allow you to maintain your existing tracks should you need them later.

~jr

Dave Blackhurst · September 13th, 2007, 02:31 AM

Ok, so will infinicam work AOK in VP8? That would be a deal breaker for me if it didn't - manual cam sync is "normal operation" for me... and probably couldn't live without it...

John Rofrano · September 13th, 2007, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Ok, so will infinicam work AOK in VP8?

Yes, absolutely. All of the VASST Scripts (Ultimate S, infinitiCAM, GearShift, Celluloid, StillMotion, FM, and all the Freeware) have been updated to work with Vegas Pro 8.0. Existing users need only to download the free update.

~jr

Edward Troxel · September 13th, 2007, 07:09 AM

The good news is that you simply have more options. If you're more comfortable with the script based multi-cam, they all still work (granted, an updated version is needed). Or you can use the new built-in version. Either way, you win.

September 11th, 2007, 09:07 PM	#1
Mark Stavar Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 95	Need multi-cam -- upgrade to V8 or buy Ultimate S3? Hi there, (A question I also asked on the Sony Vegas forum) I'm looking for some opinions. I am going to be doing an event shoot end of October. A dance school concert, 4 cameras, audio feed into ProTools and recorded to disk. Obviously, multi-camera functionality is something that I am looking for. I have Vegas 7, and it will likely serve all my needs for the next 12 months or so (though the improved titler would be nice, and I haven't looked closely into DVDA4.5). Thus I am wondering, since I am primarily looking for a multi-camera editing solution, should I upgrade to V8, or should I spend that money on Ultimate S3 and maybe upgrade at V9? (Getting both is not really an option at them moment). All thoughts and opinions welcome. Ciao, marks

September 12th, 2007, 07:32 AM	#4
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Wow... I'm getting about the same framerates with Excalibur and the Vegas 8 preview. Both have advantages. The scripts (Excalibur, Infiniti-cam, Ultimate S) have more "features". But the built-in version is more tightly integrated in ways that scripts can't be (i.e. clicking on the preview screen to switch cameras). I'd try both and see what was most comfortable to me. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 12th, 2007, 01:06 PM	#6
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Since the preview shows in both places, you could just click on the preview screen as normal. However, you can also use the 1, 2, 3, 4... keys as well. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 13th, 2007, 07:09 AM	#11
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	The good news is that you simply have more options. If you're more comfortable with the script based multi-cam, they all still work (granted, an updated version is needed). Or you can use the new built-in version. Either way, you win. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 12th, 2007, 12:22 AM	#2
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Hi Mark - You might also take a look at VASST infinicam - if you don't need the whole S3 package. I downloaded the VP8 demo, and probably will upgrade myself since the upgrade is fairly reasonable. The speed improvements are noticeable... and the multicam looked fairly interesting from what little I fiddled with it. On first try, I think I prefer Infinicam, as the VP8 multicam appears to remove any EFX, and I usually CC and match my cams before I mix... I've got to fiddle with that some more and see if FX applied to the individual clips "stick", if not I've got to take a closer look at workflow... I'm still on the flat part of the learning curve with the update, so maybe it's a non-issue?

September 12th, 2007, 05:55 AM	#3
Jerry Jesion Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Woodhaven Mi Posts: 105	Mark, I have just finished a multicam edit with V8 and in my opinion it is much better than script based multicam. The main advantage IMO is that the PIP preview of the cameras runs at 29.97. This makes accurate switching much easier. Script based PIP (Excalibur) has run 7-8 fps on my quad core machine even without any fx. Another advantage is that going in and out of multicam mode is very easy. Often there are sections of the show that have to be removed and that I may not remember exactly where they are. In V8 it is easy to chop them out and continue editing without any problems. It is possible with Excalibur, but is more difficult. Also one can switch cameras by just clicking on the video in the PIP. The only derog is that the control key must be depressed to get a disolve. It is true that all clip based fx go away when enabling multicam, but not if they are applied to the media in the bin. I always did this anyway since I would disable them during the editing process and re-enabled just before rendering. Excalibur is a great product and I have cut many shows using it, but having real time PIP is a big deal for me. Regards, Jerry

September 12th, 2007, 12:33 PM	#5
Curt Talbot Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Regina, SK Canada Posts: 104 Images: 1	If you use an external monitor how does the new V8 multi-cam approach work? Do you need to use the preview screen? I use the VASST two-camera freebie and it works fine but it is a challenge to keep track of which camera is 'live'.

September 12th, 2007, 05:21 PM	#7
Ali Husain Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 141	in vegas 8, how can you go back and forth between a single multi-take track and individual tracks? it seems once you make a multicam track you can't go back to individual tracks should there be a problem with your synchronization. that's definitely a problem for me. i have footage with no synced timecode, and i have to line up all the cameras by hand... nudging them a frame here and a frame there. i'd really like to do that INSIDE multicam mode. i've been using infinitiCAM for a few years now and it works great though a bit slower than i'd like (not the fault of the script). i'm thinking one flow that might work for me is to line up everythign using infinitiCAM. then apply the vegas 8, apparently one-way tracks-to-takes multicam operation. then edit that way. what do people think? thanks!

September 13th, 2007, 02:31 AM	#9
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Ok, so will infinicam work AOK in VP8? That would be a deal breaker for me if it didn't - manual cam sync is "normal operation" for me... and probably couldn't live without it...