Adobe gets thumbs down

Steven Dempsey · August 17th, 2007, 01:18 PM

After years of working with Adobe Premiere, I have finally decided that, for my own sanity, I can no longer work with such a memory-hog and bug-ridden piece of software. Maybe it's my computer configuration (although I've had it running on three different computers, all state of the art machines), but I have had so many crashes and lost project files of late, I decided to check out Vegas and instantly fell in love with it. I was hoping Premiere CS3 would mark an end to all the crashes, etc. but, instead, it's worse than ever. It feels to me like it was released prematurely...feels more like a beta.

Vegas could put an elephant on its timeline and run it. There seems to be no limits to what it can ingest and it has crashed only twice in the six months I've been playing around with it.

The biggest problem I had in making my decision is that fact that I was editing HDV files while running Cineform AspectHD on Premiere and the RT engine is quite amazing, totally smooth. I couldn't get that kind of smooth playback on Vegas and I wished there was a tool out there that would allow me to work with proxy files.

Today I discovered GearShift and now there is no turning back. There is nothing that Premiere can do that Vegas cannot in terms of what I need for editing. It's a fantastic tool and the web community is quite vast. I have no regrets and am looking forward to cutting a few new projects using Vegas very soon.

George David · August 17th, 2007, 09:07 PM

Wow, Disjecta is now a Vegas convert. Great choice, Steven. I look forward to watching your films edited with this amazing piece of software. As a sight and sound filmmaker, you will also discover how well your beautiful footage will harmonize musicially in Vegas. No other NLE works better for musicians.

Jon McGuffin · August 18th, 2007, 12:48 AM

Wow Steven... I've seen what you produce and to hear you moving to Vegas is truly compelling. I started out on Vegas 7 last December and am absolutely sold on it as well. Unlike you, I've *never* had it crash on me! :)

Jon

Mark Holmes · August 21st, 2007, 04:13 PM

Steven, same here. I actually just spent a few months on FCP, but it took all the joy out of editing for me. So cumbersome...

Vegas, on the other hand, is an absolute joy. Like an extension of my mind - so intuitive.

And I've watched so many of your clips over the years, mostly on DVXUser.com. You do beautiful work. Keep it up.

John Miller · August 21st, 2007, 04:58 PM

Well, that nails it for me.

I've been wrestling with upgrading from PPro 1.5.1 to CS3 or switching to Vegas. The decision is made. A shame, really, since I've been using Premiere since its original release aeons ago. However, the bugs and quirky workflow/user interface still persist. Same with Ulead's Media Studio.

Personally, I've never regretted any Sony purchase (hardware or software).

Chris Barcellos · August 21st, 2007, 05:49 PM

I've been using Vegas more and more, and Premiere Pro 2.0 less and less recently.

One of things I love in Pro is the Sequencing capability. In other words, in the same project, you do multiple sequences, and then fold them all together for your final product in another sequence.

Vegas also seem to be slow in the "native" edit mode, in preview. I believe that Pro may use video card resources to preview, where Vegas may not-- but this is speculation

While it has take a while for me to get to know a bit about Vegas, I am happy I moved this direction.

Marco Wagner · August 21st, 2007, 06:41 PM

I've never had any major issues with PPRO or P, almost all were something I did or didn't do. I've never tried Vegas though. Can someone tell me if it is watered down, like say "Ulead's NLE" or is it just as loaded as PPRO? I wouldn't mind trying since I only use Sony cams...

Seth Bloombaum · August 21st, 2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Wagner

...I've never tried Vegas though. Can someone tell me if it is watered down, like say "Ulead's NLE"...

Not watered down at all, it is a very capable pro NLE based on a different GUI than most others.

What it offers is speed and productivity, through extremely quick access to the basic editing tools you use all the time. It provides the best audio editing/mixing environment of any NLE, hands-down. It is scriptable, and there are a large number of freeware scripts and a very valuable handful of inexpensive scripts that enhance productivity. It is the swiss-army-knife of NLEs, allowing work in any codec you might have loaded. It was first with HD and HDV support, and can pull down 24p out of the sony HDV formats.

It lacks, IMHO, some of the extensive tie-ins to other systems and hardware integration of AVID, FCP and PPro. Most people don't need these unless they're working in a post facility with those other systems & hardware.

And then it is not based on the AVID workflow/interface, like most other NLEs are. Feature or bug? You decide. Of course most people on this forum will say that it's one of the things that makes Vegas great... and fast.

Jon McGuffin · August 21st, 2007, 06:56 PM

I'll agree with Seth on this one hand down.. That was really well put and spot on...

I'll add if you want to see some of the comments about Vegas from a variety of users, check here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=99914

Jon

Marco Wagner · August 21st, 2007, 08:03 PM

Ok, what the hell, I'll give it a shot. I've heard too much about it and it's the only NLE I haven't tried. I am at a point where I have a couple week window inbetween projects to mess around. How much and which version should I grab, I don't want to mess around with trials. I can make this an expense :-)

Steven Gotz · August 21st, 2007, 08:45 PM

Let me know when Vegas will allow you to copy a track over to After Effects, do the green screen work in Keylight, and then use Dynamic Link to bring the footage fom After Effects to Vegas without rendering out a file.

Let me know when Cineform creates an accelerator for Vegas like they have for Premiere Pro.

Vegas is OK, but the workflow is so foreign, it is in no way worth making a change. If you like the workflow, great. I never have liked the way they do things. It certainly has a lot to do with personal preference.

Marco Wagner · August 21st, 2007, 08:47 PM

Ouch, I'm pretty partial to having the ability to go in and out of AE without re-renders.

Pete Bauer · August 21st, 2007, 08:54 PM

Hey folks, we are gradually drifting toward "platform war" sorts of comments.

Please discuss the good and the bad about Vegas in the Vegas forum, the good and the bad about PPro in the PPro forum, and where comparisons or contrasts are made in either place, please make them factual and without injecting invectives or sarcasm into the discussion, which tends to escalate as we all know. Not meaning to stifle good discourse; just a little preventive maintenance.

Chris Barcellos · August 21st, 2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Wagner

Ok, what the hell, I'll give it a shot. I've heard too much about it and it's the only NLE I haven't tried. I am at a point where I have a couple week window inbetween projects to mess around. How much and which version should I grab, I don't want to mess around with trials. I can make this an expense :-)

Marco:

Check out BH Photo. They had a package with Vegas 6, and Vegas 7 upgrade package for below $300.00.

Vegas is a good laptop option too, for simpler renders. Has good correction tools.

Marco Wagner · August 21st, 2007, 09:53 PM

Thanks for the heads up Chris! I'll check that out. What format does it capture in?

Sorry to drift off track if I did.

August 17th, 2007, 01:18 PM	#1
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	Adobe gets thumbs down - a Vegas convert After years of working with Adobe Premiere, I have finally decided that, for my own sanity, I can no longer work with such a memory-hog and bug-ridden piece of software. Maybe it's my computer configuration (although I've had it running on three different computers, all state of the art machines), but I have had so many crashes and lost project files of late, I decided to check out Vegas and instantly fell in love with it. I was hoping Premiere CS3 would mark an end to all the crashes, etc. but, instead, it's worse than ever. It feels to me like it was released prematurely...feels more like a beta. Vegas could put an elephant on its timeline and run it. There seems to be no limits to what it can ingest and it has crashed only twice in the six months I've been playing around with it. The biggest problem I had in making my decision is that fact that I was editing HDV files while running Cineform AspectHD on Premiere and the RT engine is quite amazing, totally smooth. I couldn't get that kind of smooth playback on Vegas and I wished there was a tool out there that would allow me to work with proxy files. Today I discovered GearShift and now there is no turning back. There is nothing that Premiere can do that Vegas cannot in terms of what I need for editing. It's a fantastic tool and the web community is quite vast. I have no regrets and am looking forward to cutting a few new projects using Vegas very soon. __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

August 21st, 2007, 04:13 PM	#4
Mark Holmes Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 119	Back on Vegas Steven, same here. I actually just spent a few months on FCP, but it took all the joy out of editing for me. So cumbersome... Vegas, on the other hand, is an absolute joy. Like an extension of my mind - so intuitive. And I've watched so many of your clips over the years, mostly on DVXUser.com. You do beautiful work. Keep it up.

August 21st, 2007, 05:49 PM	#6
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I've been using Vegas more and more, and Premiere Pro 2.0 less and less recently. One of things I love in Pro is the Sequencing capability. In other words, in the same project, you do multiple sequences, and then fold them all together for your final product in another sequence. Vegas also seem to be slow in the "native" edit mode, in preview. I believe that Pro may use video card resources to preview, where Vegas may not-- but this is speculation While it has take a while for me to get to know a bit about Vegas, I am happy I moved this direction. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 21st, 2007, 06:41 PM	#7
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	Wow I've never had any major issues with PPRO or P, almost all were something I did or didn't do. I've never tried Vegas though. Can someone tell me if it is watered down, like say "Ulead's NLE" or is it just as loaded as PPRO? I wouldn't mind trying since I only use Sony cams... __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto

August 21st, 2007, 08:03 PM	#10
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	Ok, what the hell, I'll give it a shot. I've heard too much about it and it's the only NLE I haven't tried. I am at a point where I have a couple week window inbetween projects to mess around. How much and which version should I grab, I don't want to mess around with trials. I can make this an expense :-) __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto

August 17th, 2007, 09:07 PM	#2
George David Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 150	Wow, Disjecta is now a Vegas convert. Great choice, Steven. I look forward to watching your films edited with this amazing piece of software. As a sight and sound filmmaker, you will also discover how well your beautiful footage will harmonize musicially in Vegas. No other NLE works better for musicians.

August 18th, 2007, 12:48 AM	#3
Jon McGuffin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 634	Wow Steven... I've seen what you produce and to hear you moving to Vegas is truly compelling. I started out on Vegas 7 last December and am absolutely sold on it as well. Unlike you, I've never had it crash on me! :) Jon

August 21st, 2007, 04:58 PM	#5
John Miller Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA Posts: 968	Well, that nails it for me. I've been wrestling with upgrading from PPro 1.5.1 to CS3 or switching to Vegas. The decision is made. A shame, really, since I've been using Premiere since its original release aeons ago. However, the bugs and quirky workflow/user interface still persist. Same with Ulead's Media Studio. Personally, I've never regretted any Sony purchase (hardware or software).

August 21st, 2007, 06:56 PM	#9
Jon McGuffin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 634	I'll agree with Seth on this one hand down.. That was really well put and spot on... I'll add if you want to see some of the comments about Vegas from a variety of users, check here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=99914 Jon

August 21st, 2007, 08:45 PM	#11
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Let me know when Vegas will allow you to copy a track over to After Effects, do the green screen work in Keylight, and then use Dynamic Link to bring the footage fom After Effects to Vegas without rendering out a file. Let me know when Cineform creates an accelerator for Vegas like they have for Premiere Pro. Vegas is OK, but the workflow is so foreign, it is in no way worth making a change. If you like the workflow, great. I never have liked the way they do things. It certainly has a lot to do with personal preference. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

August 21st, 2007, 08:47 PM	#12
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	Ouch, I'm pretty partial to having the ability to go in and out of AE without re-renders. __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto

August 21st, 2007, 08:54 PM	#13
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Hey folks, we are gradually drifting toward "platform war" sorts of comments. Please discuss the good and the bad about Vegas in the Vegas forum, the good and the bad about PPro in the PPro forum, and where comparisons or contrasts are made in either place, please make them factual and without injecting invectives or sarcasm into the discussion, which tends to escalate as we all know. Not meaning to stifle good discourse; just a little preventive maintenance. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

August 21st, 2007, 09:53 PM	#15
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	Thanks for the heads up Chris! I'll check that out. What format does it capture in? Sorry to drift off track if I did. __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto