Not your typical photographer at DVinfo.net

John Moon · July 19th, 2007, 08:56 AM

We had a wedding in Fort Wayne, Indiana and had a run in with a photographer. This was not a huge wedding and there were 4 photographers. The head photographer went up to my wife who had started filming several hours earlier. He told her that he did not want us filming ANY of the photo sessions. My wife gave me a heads up that we were going to have problems. I approached the photographer and before I got a word out he said he did not want us filming any of the photo sessions. I asked him why and he said "It's more about me getting in your way" I knew this was a BS line. I told him oh no..its a photo session and I typically like it when you are in the video....it's the B&G photo session. He said well I still don't want you to shoot any of it. I told him he was the first photographer that has held this position and that it really affects the video. I told him I would ask the Bride what she wanted. I asked her if she wanted us to film the photo session and she said "I guess its in our contract with him that you can't". I said ok and walked away. I didn't want to upset the Bride and make any further scene. The Brides mother then told my wife that if the photographer is hampered in getting the shot he wants he will charge them $150.00. This guy and his photog clan were in our way all day and night and just a pain in the ass. One of our photographer friends has a client. They met with this guy and he told her that he does not want to deal with anyone except the bride and not to call him but e-mail him. Needless to say, they didn't hire him and I wonder why anyone would hire this guy. So, if we get anyone that wants to hire us and he is their photog we are going to decline the job. At the reception we had many in the bridal party that thought the photog was out of line and could not believe his behavior. Ahhh the world of videography.
Sorry...I just had to vent.
John

Richard Wakefield · July 19th, 2007, 09:10 AM

AAAAAHHH!!!

yet ANOTHER 'i own this wedding' photographer! i've had this situation twice now, both of which were resolved, one by sweet-talking and one by getting the B+G on my side (which was v.easy thank god).

I too will decline, without hesitition, ANY wedding where i will run into these photographers again.

Another pet hate, is when you have a 'head photographer' who will only communicate with you through their assistant/wife/husband. What a load of hierachy cr#p.

John, i completely feel for you there. it can turn a potentially great day into a real let-down (for the videographer i mean).

Jeff Emery · July 30th, 2007, 03:47 PM

I was searching for something else but this came up in the results. What an attitude. I hope I never run into this guy (or his type) at a wedding. If I do, I'm afraid I'll need a new tripod since I'll be using the old one for a "popsicle stick" of sorts.

http://www.derekpyephotography.com/a...05121119113387

I must say though that all the photogs that I've dealt with have been very polite and helpful. They do get in the shot from time to time but I can usually edit around them.

Jeff

Sean Johnson · July 30th, 2007, 04:36 PM

OMG, what an idiot. Don't you think the "popsicle stick" is going a little bit easy on the guy. If I was the videographer at a wedding with this guy and he "accidentally bumped" my tripod. I think I'd have to arrange a beatdown outside.

Gary Hanna · July 30th, 2007, 10:21 PM

I have barbed wire around my tripod for such photographers LOL.

Dave Blackhurst · July 31st, 2007, 12:44 AM

OK, obviously that site is a joke... I'd gather the fellow considers himself a humorist of a sort... I certainly hope he doesn't actually hire out as a photog - did you get a look at the "albums", c'mon, I mean really... my 5 year old can compose and shoot better'n that... really... with a Sony digital pocket cam older than he is...

I didn't see any contact info on the site, I'd imagine the UK Videographers would be at his door (do bridges have doors - I mean thats where trolls live, right... under bridges??) with torches and tripods modded to look like pitchforks, not to mention the infamous monopod/blowgun combo we've secretly been developing to deal with unruly guests and photogs...

I'd say it's pretty funny, yet there's a ring of "truth" to what I sadly suspect some photogs are REALLY thinking sometimes...

Jon Omiatek · July 31st, 2007, 06:39 AM

I suggest not working with the photographer in the future, it's just not worth it. I have two photographers that I refuse to work with and turn down weddings where they are the photographer.

The best is when the Wedding Coordinator calls you to see if you can edit out the photographer from the video. I explained that I edited the photographer out as much as I could and explained that I use three cameras and there is a photographer in front of every camera during the processional and recessional. There were 4 photographers running around all during the ceremony with no concern for the video cameras that had been in the same approximate location during the entire ceremony. Two photographers in the isle at all times. One laying down and one standing up. I saw a piece done by a videographer(THINKING OF PHOTO JOURNALISM FOR YOU PHOTOGRAPHY)a couple of years ago, set to the flight of the bumblebee showing the photographers movements during the entire ceremony.

Chris Hurd · July 31st, 2007, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Omiatek

I saw a piece done by a videographer... set to the flight of the bumblebee showing the photographers movements during the entire ceremony.

I believe that would be Carol Dorman's video clip at http://www.videobycarol.com/home_pag...ographers.html -- it's quite a treat to watch. See her other "photographers in action" video clips here: http://www.videobycarol.blogspot.com/ as well as http://videobycarol.blogspot.com/200...ographers.html

By the way, for those who don't get it, the Derek Pye site linked above is pure parody and nothing more.

Mike Wade · July 31st, 2007, 07:16 AM

The Derek Pye site came up for discussion on dv.doctor.net - a UK forum -some time ago and centered around how successful the site was as a joke.....Most - including me - thought it hilarious.

Jon Omiatek · July 31st, 2007, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I believe that would be Carol Dorman's video clip at http://www.videobycarol.com/home_pag...ographers.html -- it's quite a treat to watch. See her other "photographers in action" video clips here: http://www.videobycarol.blogspot.com/ as well as http://videobycarol.blogspot.com/200...ographers.html

By the way, for those who don't get it, the Derek Pye site linked above is pure parody and nothing more.

THANKS CHRIS!!!! I lost my favorites and lost the videographers site.

Heather Darling · August 1st, 2007, 12:24 PM

Hi John -
I also shoot weddings in Fort Wayne and so far have never run across a photog like that! Everyone that I have worked with so far has been great and for the most part try to stay out of our shots. Please let me know what company they were with so I can try to stay clear of them or at least discuss this with the B&G before I book with them. If you don't want to post it here, please shoot me an email. Thanks!

Tim Harjo · August 2nd, 2007, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Moon

I told him I would ask the Bride what she wanted.

I'm glad you posted this John. You have given me a lot to think about when it comes to photogs (or any other vender for that matter) that try to tell us what we can and can't do.

First let me just say that all of the photogs I have worked with so far have been easy to work with.

Here's my deal. I work for the bride. Not for the photog. That being said, what right do they have to tell us not to record. If it's out in public, what right do they have to tell us not to record the B & G? As far as inside buildings, it's the families that rent out the buildings. I've never heard of a photog renting out a building for a wedding. So again, I do believe they have no right to tell us not to record any aspect of the wedding that we were hired to record.

If I am wrong, someone please tell me.

So my question is this. When this happens, why not just stand your ground? If a photographer says "I don't want you to record any of the photo sessions", then why not respond with "No can do. I'm working for 'brides name'. today" or, "Then you might have a problem. The family paid me to be here." At this point I would just walk away. Why give them the time of day.

Now if they continue to have a problem, why not direct them to the bride? If they want to make some threatening $150 charge, then that's between him and the bride. I bet that if you stand your ground and then gently blow them off, they won't do anything because they don't want to cause a scene or upset the bride.

If the photog does cry to the bride and she sides with them, then so what. I say just do what the bride says. You won't get paid less just because you have less to record. The bride will miss out and that's her choice if she sides with a photog.

Now as far as photogs that are determined to get in your shots, I have ideas about this too. First I do plan on telling my brides that if they hire a "journalistic style" photographer, then it's natural that they will be in the video.

My deal is this - If a photog gets in front of the camera every chance he gets, then let them be in the video. Who ever said that they can't. Just make sure that you are doing your best to make the bride and groom the focus.

If the photographer keeps jumping in front of the camera, them they must want to be in the video. Knowing you can edit later, why not turn the camera on them and let them be in the spotlight for a few seconds. This approach might not do anything, but we all know that lots of ppl tend to act differently when suddenly the camera is focused on them.

Lastly, this is something that only I would probably do - At the end of the day, I would look the photographer dead in the eyes and tell them in a cheerful voice, "Hey, you looked great out there today. I got a lot great shots of you and the Bride and Groom together." I would be nice to them not wavering. I think they would get the message. Either way I don't care about someone that would treat me like the way John has described this guy.

Steven Davis · August 2nd, 2007, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Moon

"I guess its in our contract with him that you can't".
John

Well, two things, I imagine that this 'contract' probably reads.......no other photography. I doubt it reads..........the videographer can't shoot the photo session.

I would imagine that this dude bordered on financial liability. Simply put, you are under contract to film the wedding, if you're overtly hampered by a photographer and stand to lose material beit for your client or your own business i.e. demo material, this can translate into a financial loss.

I'm glad you made it out of the wedding alive John. That dude is certainly any weddings worst nightmare.

As for most photog's I've worked with, there have been many really good ones, and some I would love to work with again.
I will say however the worst photog I've every worked with, is from Indiana, maybe thier kin. :}

John Moon · August 2nd, 2007, 02:27 PM

Tiim:

You have some great points and I had to laugh about turning the camera on them. Probably get the deer in the headlights look. I actually thought about sticking to my guns but the Bride already seemed stressed out about the situation so I took the high road. We have great working relationships with all the other photographers we work with and we respect their role and they respect ours. What this guy failed to understand is that this is not "his day" but "their day".

Thanks,
John

Brian Peterson · August 4th, 2007, 08:02 PM

John, I'm in South Bend and get a fair amount of work out of Ft Wayne. If you don't mind let me know who this guy is so I can be on the lookout. Can't say I've worked with him yet, but we've got our own photographer who's a nightmare up here.

The trouble is in these situations if the end product is not to the liking of the customer when the video is done, it's our company on the line not the photographer's Years ago I had our local "it's my wedding photographer" totally botch the stills from the formals. I had agreed at the time to shut down my camera so the bride lost nearly everything they had done for 2 hours. After a very tense situation of the bride threatening a lawsuit for not doing my job, even though it was her who told me to turn off the camera, I got her to see reason.

Ever since I do two things. As someone else said, as soon as the photographer starts mouthing off, I turn the camera on him. Two I carry in my bags a contract release form for the bride to sign. The release form basically states that we as a company will no longer be held liable for anything that goes wrong with the video during the shoot and we will still be paid in full. If she will not release us, then I will not shut the camera's down, period.

My contract is with the customer, it is not with the photorapher. The photographer will not take the blame if I am dragged into court, so I will not let him tell me what to do.

July 19th, 2007, 08:56 AM	#1
John Moon Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 446	Not your typical photographer We had a wedding in Fort Wayne, Indiana and had a run in with a photographer. This was not a huge wedding and there were 4 photographers. The head photographer went up to my wife who had started filming several hours earlier. He told her that he did not want us filming ANY of the photo sessions. My wife gave me a heads up that we were going to have problems. I approached the photographer and before I got a word out he said he did not want us filming any of the photo sessions. I asked him why and he said "It's more about me getting in your way" I knew this was a BS line. I told him oh no..its a photo session and I typically like it when you are in the video....it's the B&G photo session. He said well I still don't want you to shoot any of it. I told him he was the first photographer that has held this position and that it really affects the video. I told him I would ask the Bride what she wanted. I asked her if she wanted us to film the photo session and she said "I guess its in our contract with him that you can't". I said ok and walked away. I didn't want to upset the Bride and make any further scene. The Brides mother then told my wife that if the photographer is hampered in getting the shot he wants he will charge them $150.00. This guy and his photog clan were in our way all day and night and just a pain in the ass. One of our photographer friends has a client. They met with this guy and he told her that he does not want to deal with anyone except the bride and not to call him but e-mail him. Needless to say, they didn't hire him and I wonder why anyone would hire this guy. So, if we get anyone that wants to hire us and he is their photog we are going to decline the job. At the reception we had many in the bridal party that thought the photog was out of line and could not believe his behavior. Ahhh the world of videography. Sorry...I just had to vent. John __________________ John J. Moon www.northernlightfilmworks.com - Event DV Top 25 Recipient

July 30th, 2007, 03:47 PM	#3
Jeff Emery Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 222	How's this for attitude? I was searching for something else but this came up in the results. What an attitude. I hope I never run into this guy (or his type) at a wedding. If I do, I'm afraid I'll need a new tripod since I'll be using the old one for a "popsicle stick" of sorts. http://www.derekpyephotography.com/a...05121119113387 I must say though that all the photogs that I've dealt with have been very polite and helpful. They do get in the shot from time to time but I can usually edit around them. Jeff

August 2nd, 2007, 02:27 PM	#14
John Moon Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 446	Tiim: You have some great points and I had to laugh about turning the camera on them. Probably get the deer in the headlights look. I actually thought about sticking to my guns but the Bride already seemed stressed out about the situation so I took the high road. We have great working relationships with all the other photographers we work with and we respect their role and they respect ours. What this guy failed to understand is that this is not "his day" but "their day". Thanks, John __________________ John J. Moon www.northernlightfilmworks.com - Event DV Top 25 Recipient

July 19th, 2007, 09:10 AM	#2
Richard Wakefield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Surrey, UK Posts: 680	AAAAAHHH!!! yet ANOTHER 'i own this wedding' photographer! i've had this situation twice now, both of which were resolved, one by sweet-talking and one by getting the B+G on my side (which was v.easy thank god). I too will decline, without hesitition, ANY wedding where i will run into these photographers again. Another pet hate, is when you have a 'head photographer' who will only communicate with you through their assistant/wife/husband. What a load of hierachy cr#p. John, i completely feel for you there. it can turn a potentially great day into a real let-down (for the videographer i mean).

July 30th, 2007, 04:36 PM	#4
Sean Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 94	OMG, what an idiot. Don't you think the "popsicle stick" is going a little bit easy on the guy. If I was the videographer at a wedding with this guy and he "accidentally bumped" my tripod. I think I'd have to arrange a beatdown outside.

July 30th, 2007, 10:21 PM	#5
Gary Hanna Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United States Posts: 137	I have barbed wire around my tripod for such photographers LOL.

July 31st, 2007, 12:44 AM	#6
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	OK, obviously that site is a joke... I'd gather the fellow considers himself a humorist of a sort... I certainly hope he doesn't actually hire out as a photog - did you get a look at the "albums", c'mon, I mean really... my 5 year old can compose and shoot better'n that... really... with a Sony digital pocket cam older than he is... I didn't see any contact info on the site, I'd imagine the UK Videographers would be at his door (do bridges have doors - I mean thats where trolls live, right... under bridges??) with torches and tripods modded to look like pitchforks, not to mention the infamous monopod/blowgun combo we've secretly been developing to deal with unruly guests and photogs... I'd say it's pretty funny, yet there's a ring of "truth" to what I sadly suspect some photogs are REALLY thinking sometimes...

July 31st, 2007, 06:39 AM	#7
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	I suggest not working with the photographer in the future, it's just not worth it. I have two photographers that I refuse to work with and turn down weddings where they are the photographer. The best is when the Wedding Coordinator calls you to see if you can edit out the photographer from the video. I explained that I edited the photographer out as much as I could and explained that I use three cameras and there is a photographer in front of every camera during the processional and recessional. There were 4 photographers running around all during the ceremony with no concern for the video cameras that had been in the same approximate location during the entire ceremony. Two photographers in the isle at all times. One laying down and one standing up. I saw a piece done by a videographer(THINKING OF PHOTO JOURNALISM FOR YOU PHOTOGRAPHY)a couple of years ago, set to the flight of the bumblebee showing the photographers movements during the entire ceremony.

July 31st, 2007, 07:16 AM	#9
Mike Wade Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 161	The Derek Pye site came up for discussion on dv.doctor.net - a UK forum -some time ago and centered around how successful the site was as a joke.....Most - including me - thought it hilarious.

August 1st, 2007, 12:24 PM	#11
Heather Darling Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 37	Hi John - I also shoot weddings in Fort Wayne and so far have never run across a photog like that! Everyone that I have worked with so far has been great and for the most part try to stay out of our shots. Please let me know what company they were with so I can try to stay clear of them or at least discuss this with the B&G before I book with them. If you don't want to post it here, please shoot me an email. Thanks!

August 4th, 2007, 08:02 PM	#15
Brian Peterson New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Bend, IN Posts: 24	John, I'm in South Bend and get a fair amount of work out of Ft Wayne. If you don't mind let me know who this guy is so I can be on the lookout. Can't say I've worked with him yet, but we've got our own photographer who's a nightmare up here. The trouble is in these situations if the end product is not to the liking of the customer when the video is done, it's our company on the line not the photographer's Years ago I had our local "it's my wedding photographer" totally botch the stills from the formals. I had agreed at the time to shut down my camera so the bride lost nearly everything they had done for 2 hours. After a very tense situation of the bride threatening a lawsuit for not doing my job, even though it was her who told me to turn off the camera, I got her to see reason. Ever since I do two things. As someone else said, as soon as the photographer starts mouthing off, I turn the camera on him. Two I carry in my bags a contract release form for the bride to sign. The release form basically states that we as a company will no longer be held liable for anything that goes wrong with the video during the shoot and we will still be paid in full. If she will not release us, then I will not shut the camera's down, period. My contract is with the customer, it is not with the photorapher. The photographer will not take the blame if I am dragged into court, so I will not let him tell me what to do.