Photographer Behavior

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Arnaldo Paixao

That's what it is. Photogs in front of cameras are a fact of life. but then again are uncle Joe and the bride's brother with his cellphone taking pictures and so on.
Some time ago on another thread discussing the same issue, Chris Hurd expressed is wise opinion to me (saying that my "I'll throw my 100W light at you" attitude was more unprofessional that the photog blocking my view. And he his dead right.
An unmaned camera is always a risk. Even if it is way high, it can be bumped to the ground.
I allways work with the same photogh, and believe me, he his one hell of guy, but I know the back of his head better than anyone else. Simply because at that moment he is simply trying to get the best possible shot, simple as that.
So, what do I do? I lift camera and monopod and station myself next to him.
Its we that have to acomodate, because if its not the photogh, it will be someone else, and remember, a gentle tap on the shoulder does wonders :)

Best regards,
Arnaldo

You must not have read my original post very carefully. The camera was unmanned and I was nowhere near it. Kind of hard to give a "gentle tap on the shoulder" from 100 feet away.

Also, the point of my thread was that it was unprofessional of the photographer to stand right in front of a camera when we had previously discussed it's placement. I'm not bothered by a photographer who walks around up front or who has to pass in front of my camera sometimes. I have a problem when I've discussed the camera placement with the photographer and then the photographer ignores this discussion and stands in front of the camera, completely blocking the shot.

Saying that "photog's in front of the camera is a fact of life" is the wrong attitude to have in my opinion. As professionals, it shouldn't be that hard to work together so that both of us get the shots we need.

[Kevin Myhre]

Okay I had to dig this post up again. I just got back from shooting a wedding and had to work with the most unprofessional photographer I've ever seen. Besides her long speech at the rehearsal telling the entire wedding party that she didn't want anyone else (as in guests) taking pictures during the wedding, she was trying to tell me where I should be filming from. Throughout the entire ceremony she kept coming up to the balcony I was filming from and talking to her assistant right next to my camera. Well there goes that audio. To make things worse during the reception every time there was a speech or anything else I was shooting she would come stand right in front of the camera. I was standing off to the side and back a little ways so I wouldn't be in other peoples way that were trying to see the speeches or dances but she even had the nerve to come look at my screen, saw I was filming and had a good shot and then walked up about five feet and stood in front of my camera. I was so furious by the end of the night. One time I gave her a very dirty look and she just smiled and walked away. I did tell the groom at the end of the night that I'd try to edit what I could but she was in front of the camera most of the time. It didn't sound like the B&G were any to happy with her either. Okay I guess that's enough I just needed to vent.

[Steven Davis]

Just my two cents, but about the only recourse you or anyone of us have, is a law suit. Then maybe that person will think twice about interfering in someone elses work. I've worked with this type of person before, they have a god complex.

[Chris Hurd]

Frankly in a case like this, I think litigation is far more trouble than it's worth. Not to mention the expense involved... in my opinion your best course of action is to chalk it up to experience and never shoot a wedding with that particular photographer again. When I shot weddings, the second question I always asked the prospective customer (after determining when and where the wedding would be), was "who is the photographer." I had a very short list of photographers (two or three) that I refused to work with based on similar past experiences. If the couple hadn't yet signed a photographer by the time they got to me (very rare), then I'd point them to our photographer or one from a list of photographers we knew we worked well with.

A smooth, healthy relationship between photographer and videographer is mission-critical for providing a good package to the customer.

[Noa Put]

In Belgium you just have to deal with it, never heared about law suites for these reasons. I allways look at the photographer and give him/her the room needed, if I see I end up in their shot I quickly move away if possible, that allways has resulted in the photog making room for me afterwards.
One time I had a photog driving so fast to a fotoshoot (The couple was with him) and because I didn't know exaclty were he went (It was somewere close to a lake so no real street name I could enter in my gps) and when I lost him at a traffic light I just went to the the place were they had the reception. I allready warned the couple then, and still do now, that if the photog doesn't wait for me I won't start seaching and go directly to the reception.

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Frankly in a case like this, I think litigation is far more trouble than it's worth.

I agree that a lawsuit probably wouldn't be the best course of action for me. However, I also don't have the luxury (yet!) of turning down weddings because of the photographer that the couple picked. It's pretty hard to book videography in my market, and I have bills to pay, so I can't turn down a job unless it's for a much better reason.

[Kevin Myhre]

I'd agree. I can't really afford a lawsuit either but if I could I know I'd be taking this photographer to court. I just can't believe that some people are that rude. And yes she did have a God complex. If I didn't mind interrupting the reception I would have chewed her out right there but than again that would have made me look bad too.

[Rick Steele]

Man, I can't believe what I'm hearing. Take them to court? What do you do when a guest blocks your shot?

I quit complaining about people getting in the way and just got another camera. :)

It's the nature of the business - somebody's going to get in the way. But why you would keep letting the same person do it over and over again is beyond me.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Kev -
Sounds like she knew she was messing with you - I'd explain that to the B&G, and let them address the issue. It's a darn shame that some people forget whose DAY this is and make it about themselves - anyone deliberately making themselves the most important thing should get 5 minutes in a locked room with the bride and a bat... perhas a gentle reminder about professionalism and why she was there would have been effective?

It amazes me how someone will practically walk right into your cam, pop offscreen and pop back on just to say "sorry" as if they really wanted to make sure their stupidity recorded for posterity was somehow offset by their "manners". Speaking of which, you might make a short reel of your special photog to show to the B&G (or there's youtoob <wink>). Maybe a bit of public "exposure" of the special talents involved will be helpful to others <wink>.

Just for your future reference, this is why most of my rigging can be set to shoot over Herman Munster... tall tripods, etc... prepare for the inevitable! Taller tripods and Monopods are heavier, but when you need an extra foot extension, it's worth it. If you can get to 6 ft, it'll cover most situations, but the tall pods are harder to find. I just added a Giottos P-Pod myself (tall 5 section monopod with screw in legs hidden in the bottom section) - so far it seems like a nice piece, I wish the extension locks were lever not twist, but I'm sure it will come in handy on some shoots!

[Brian Peterson]

Originally Posted by Kevin Myhre

I was standing off to the side and back a little ways so I wouldn't be in other peoples way that were trying to see the speeches or dances but she even had the nerve to come look at my screen, saw I was filming and had a good shot and then walked up about five feet and stood in front of my camera. I was so furious by the end of the night.

You gave her a dirty look? What about your responsibility to the client? From what I can find in your post you stayed where you were while the photog got in your way. In these cases, the client comes first, you pick up that tripod and move it to be next to her so she can't get in front of your camera or you dismount the camera and go handheld so that if she moves to block you you can react quickly and smoothly.

We are the professionals and as professionals we need to get our job done properly and not allow these photogs to destroy our work. After all if you are standing in front of Judge Judy (bad example I know, she's not a real judge) or any real judge for that matter being sued for not doing your job properly... A judge is not going to accept as an excuse "The photog was in my way", their response will be: "Why didn't you move?".

To allow a photog to do this to you is not to do you job. I can easily say I'm sorry I blocked your view to a guest, I can't easily say to a bride "well your photog ruined the video".

I had a photog one time mess with my assitant; unknown to me he walked up and locked my assistants tripod legs with his own. Something easy to undo really but my assistant had never encounted this, and I was locked to where I was on the altar. So he quietly allowed this photog to block his shot, as the photog's tripod sat there and the photog walked around hand held. I was livid when I found out he had missed some of his shots but since we had never discussed such an incident and what to do I only had myself to blame. A month later we worked with the same photog, I took the back of the church position and the photog had something new coming. He locked the tripod legs, I just collapsed mine and moved 2 feet right (10 foot wide aisle, no reason to lock legs). He moved to relock the legs, I shifted to a position on the side of the tripod blocking him. He gave me a dirty look, gave up and took the camera handheld and then moved to block my shot. I dismounted and in seconds was standing right next to him on the aisle. We stayed in lockstep for 5 minutes till he finally gave up and moved to another location in the church.

At the reception I gave him one chance, as soon as he moved to block one of the cameras, he suddenly not only had 1 person on his side, but two. My assistant and I treated him like the meat on a sandwich taking up positions on either side of him and staying in lockstep the entire time. Finally after the first dances he looked at me called me a name and said he'd leave us alone for the rest of the time.

You don't have to interfere with their work but you do have to get yours done properly. Don't let them push you around and get your shot!

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Brian Peterson

Judge Judy (bad example I know, she's not a real judge)

Well actually, Judith Sheindlin has in fact been a real judge for over 25 years. Not to mention also one of the most successful female television personalities of all time. Whether you like Judge Judy or not, you have to acknowledge and appreciate her success (and no I am not a fan of the show, but I certainly recognize her for her accomplishments). Sorry for the off-topic tangent...

[Steven Davis]

Originally Posted by Rick Steele

Man, I can't believe what I'm hearing. Take them to court? What do you do when a guest blocks your shot?

I quit complaining about people getting in the way and just got another camera. :)

It's the nature of the business - somebody's going to get in the way. But why you would keep letting the same person do it over and over again is beyond me.

Rick, I wasn't advising it, I was just saying that for his particular situation, and at the point of his post, that's about all he had. But like you, I won't put up with it, I will address it at the moment. I was trying to encourage the guy, not advise him to do anything.

[John Moon]

I feel the pain. Here is one of my previous post's.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...typical+photog

[Rick Steele]

Originally Posted by Steven Davis

Rick, I wasn't advising it, I was just saying that for his particular situation, and at the point of his post, that's about all he had.

And like you, I would hope folks just speak up. There are courteous ways to do it and that's usually all it takes. I can certainly say I've gotten in their way more than once.

I also know there are prima donna photographers out there that won't accomodate us... all the more reason for another cam angle.

[Ken Wozniak]

At the last wedding I shot, the photog decided to stand directly in my line when the best man was giving the speech at the reception. The funny (?) thing is, he turned around and looked right at me and continued to stand there taking pictures. I was there first! Geeze, I sound like my four-year-old son...

Anyway, the reception hall was packed, and I have some very amateur looking footage from the camera while I moved it to a new location.