Should I back down or not?

[Travis Cossel]

Carl, I hear you, and if this had all gone down like 3-6 months ago, I would have just stood by my contract and taken my chances at booking another wedding. However, with just 30 days to go, it's really unlikely that I'll book another wedding, and getting $1400 is better than getting $500, right? So I was prepared to make an exception.

Now I'm really glad they cancelled, because I don't want a client that can't be pleased no matter what you do. I told them I wish them the best, but I guess I lied, but secretly I hope it rains, snows and hails on their wedding day, lol.

[Marcus Marchesseault]

You forgot lightning.

I really did LOL at that post, Travis. I guess laughter is good for the healing process as I had a bride that could never be pleased and it turned out really bad. If people are pushy or seem impossible to please, they have serious issues internally and it is best to keep away.

[Glenn Davidson]

To me, one of the keys to being a professional is knowing how to work with people and not letting them get into your head. Calling clients or other professionals 'unaware', 'unbelievable' or 'unprofesional' and getting 'pissed off' and hoping their wedding is spoiled may blow off steam, but most pros deal with problems much worse than this on a daily basis and maintain an even temper. It's just a job and problems and personalities are part of what makes it interesting.

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Glenn Davidson

To me, one of the keys to being a professional is knowing how to work with people and not letting them get into your head.

Um, I didn't let the photographer get into my head . . SHE got into MY camera shot.

Originally Posted by Glenn Davidson

Calling clients or other professionals 'unaware', 'unbelievable' or 'unprofesional' and getting 'pissed off' and hoping their wedding is spoiled may blow off steam, but most pros deal with problems much worse than this on a daily basis and maintain an even temper.

I did maintain an even temper. I never said a word to the photographer OR the couple. Nothing. Even on here, I'm pretty sure I kept an even temper. If I can't blow off some steam with my fellow professionals, then where can I do it?

Originally Posted by Glenn Davidson

It's just a job and problems and personalities are part of what makes it interesting.

Cool. I'll remember and tell that to the bride as I'm explaining that I got no footage from my third camera. I'm sure she'll find it very "interesting".


And for the record, I deal with problems and issues on a daily basis as well. Sometimes, though, it helps to come on here and share one with everyone else. It's like therapy. We can't all be as strong as you I guess.

[Matthew Craggs]

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

I did maintain an even temper. I never said a word to the photographer OR the couple. Nothing. Even on here, I'm pretty sure I kept an even temper. If I can't blow off some steam with my fellow professionals, then where can I do it?

I completely agree with you; however, we should all keep in mind that this message board is a "real names only" community and your name web address is in your signature and any client can find your postings using a quick Google search. It may be best to keep the venting to a minimum when venting about identifiable individuals.

I personally believe you did nothing terribly wrong when dealing with this situation, but I shudder at the potential word of mouth if the bride or groom did a Google search while they were killing time at work and found out that they were being discussed online. A scenario like that isn't out of the realm of possibility nowadays.

Asking about how to handle a situation is one thing, but my two cents would be to keep the venting offline.

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Matthew Craggs

I completely agree with you; however, we should all keep in mind that this message board is a "real names only" community and your name web address is in your signature and any client can find your postings using a quick Google search. It may be best to keep the venting to a minimum when venting about identifiable individuals.

I personally believe you did nothing terribly wrong when dealing with this situation, but I shudder at the potential word of mouth if the bride or groom did a Google search while they were killing time at work and found out that they were being discussed online. A scenario like that isn't out of the realm of possibility nowadays.

Asking about how to handle a situation is one thing, but my two cents would be to keep the venting offline.

I see your point, but I'll probably still vent every now and then, lol.

[John Moon]

I take these on a case by case basis. We just had this happen yesterday and the Bride called us and indicated that they had some financial problems and they would not be having a reception. We met with them face to face and agreed to back our camera coverage down. We probably could have stuck to the contract but sometimes you just have to be human. The thing about contracts is that it give you the power of discretion. The couple was very thankful.

John

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by John Moon

I take these on a case by case basis. We just had this happen yesterday and the Bride called us and indicated that they had some financial problems and they would not be having a reception. We met with them face to face and agreed to back our camera coverage down. We probably could have stuck to the contract but sometimes you just have to be human. The thing about contracts is that it give you the power of discretion. The couple was very thankful.

John

That's a good example where I would make an exception as well.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Travis -
I think the thing that many may be missing is they came to you READY to cancel everything - including the photog... they were prepared to walk the whole contract, NOT negotiate. You probably couldn't have won if you GAVE them the package. You can't negotiate with someone who has already "left the table". They already had another photog in place, right?

They obviously "found a better deal" with the mystery photog who probably gave them a cheap price - how pro can he/she be "steppng on" someone elses contract? I believe that in itself may be actionable with THAT bozo - inducement of breach/interference with YOUR contract - do that in Real estate and many other professions, and you'll be in big trouble... fast! If it's someone trying to "make a name" in your town, they should have one shortly, probably with approximately 4 letters... not a good "career move" IMO. Maybe he's in for "a lesson" too - fate brought them together after all <wink>!

You can't wish them much worse than they already will probably get - no video, and an unknown "cheap" photog... recipe for disaster. And I'll bet they call your wife to salvage the wreckage <wink> since you kept their deposit and they will expect "something".

They undoubtedly will get exactly what they're paying for. And they ate the deposit...

Venting is "good", but nowadays with the web, you want to be careful not to "cross the line" - maybe these poor souls will see themselves and recognize who they are, but you don't want anyone else recognizing them <wink>!


Some negotiatiing advice...
From your business standpoint, for future reference, try to suss out what the reason for the request is as quickly as possible (first call, as you've noted already). Don't say no right away (don't say yes either unless it's a clear decision), say you'll consider the request - "no" is a relationship killer. After they've had the chance to clearly tell you what they want and why, you don't want to shut them down, even if they aren't reasonable... give it a little time to settle - they may realize they aren't reasonable, and if you are trying to be, the chances are better things will resolve favorably. You already seem to be keeping a clear head, and that's half the battle when confronted with what seems absurd when someone wants to trash an agreement...

You may be out some on this job, but you might get a "lucky booking" too! Someone who'd be happy to get you at a "special reduced rate" since you can knock the deposit off your regular rate! You've learned a few things, and maybe escaped a nightmare client, that's worth a bundle! And we've all had the chance to consider a tough scenario for the day when it's our turn!

Best of luck on a backup booking!

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Travis -
I think the thing that many may be missing is they came to you READY to cancel everything - including the photog... they were prepared to walk the whole contract, NOT negotiate. You probably couldn't have won if you GAVE them the package. You can't negotiate with someone who has already "left the table". They already had another photog in place, right?

They obviously "found a better deal" with the mystery photog who probably gave them a cheap price - how pro can he/she be "steppng on" someone elses contract? I believe that in itself may be actionable with THAT bozo - inducement of breach/interference with YOUR contract - do that in Real estate and many other professions, and you'll be in big trouble... fast! If it's someone trying to "make a name" in your town, they should have one shortly, probably with approximately 4 letters... not a good "career move" IMO. Maybe he's in for "a lesson" too - fate brought them together after all <wink>!

You can't wish them much worse than they already will probably get - no video, and an unknown "cheap" photog... recipe for disaster. And I'll bet they call your wife to salvage the wreckage <wink> since you kept their deposit and they will expect "something".

They undoubtedly will get exactly what they're paying for. And they ate the deposit...

Venting is "good", but nowadays with the web, you want to be careful not to "cross the line" - maybe these poor souls will see themselves and recognize who they are, but you don't want anyone else recognizing them <wink>!


Some negotiatiing advice...
From your business standpoint, for future reference, try to suss out what the reason for the request is as quickly as possible (first call, as you've noted already). Don't say no right away (don't say yes either unless it's a clear decision), say you'll consider the request - "no" is a relationship killer. After they've had the chance to clearly tell you what they want and why, you don't want to shut them down, even if they aren't reasonable... give it a little time to settle - they may realize they aren't reasonable, and if you are trying to be, the chances are better things will resolve favorably. You already seem to be keeping a clear head, and that's half the battle when confronted with what seems absurd when someone wants to trash an agreement...

You may be out some on this job, but you might get a "lucky booking" too! Someone who'd be happy to get you at a "special reduced rate" since you can knock the deposit off your regular rate! You've learned a few things, and maybe escaped a nightmare client, that's worth a bundle! And we've all had the chance to consider a tough scenario for the day when it's our turn!

Best of luck on a backup booking!

Thanks, Dave!

Oh, and they didn't have another photog yet, but they did have one in mind. They went shopping for him. Here's to hoping for a "lucky" booking. d;-)

[Dave Blackhurst]

HMMMM, booking a photog a month before the event in busy season.... THAT should be interesting... they'll be back... run, hide, don't answer that phone man!

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

HMMMM, booking a photog a month before the event in busy season.... THAT should be interesting... they'll be back... run, hide, don't answer that phone man!

Naw, they won't be back. There's always someone cheap and inexperienced available. They won't be happy with their pictures, but oh well. I'm done with them either way.

[Jason Robinson]

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

Now I'm really glad they cancelled, because I don't want a client that can't be pleased no matter what you do. I told them I wish them the best, but I guess I lied, but secretly I hope it rains, snows and hails on their wedding day, lol.

Wow. Bad luck with the brides lately? There was that crazy one you posted about a month or so ago and now this. Must be something in the water around here.

Glad to see they saved you from dealing with their own problems.

jason

[Jason Robinson]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

If it's someone trying to "make a name" in your town, they should have one shortly, probably with approximately 4 letters... not a good "career move" IMO. Maybe he's in for "a lesson" too - fate brought them together after all <wink>!

Heh. I promise it wasn't me! I got NOTHING booked. Bummed too. I'm working on custom software for some other clients until I get the $ for some marketing. I have a "may be" client / friend out in Seattle the weekend before TC's potential / former client. Still have to work out details on that one.

Jason

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Jason Robinson

Wow. Bad luck with the brides lately? There was that crazy one you posted about a month or so ago and now this. Must be something in the water around here.

Glad to see they saved you from dealing with their own problems.

jason

Well, that crazy one I posted about was last year actually, but yeah, the past 2 weeks have been interesting.

Oh, and I know you had nothing to do with this couple. My understanding is that they are going with a cheap photographer and skipping the video altogether. No worries, mate. d;-)