Wedding First Dance Montage

Greg Schlueter · May 21st, 2007, 09:01 AM

Greetings-
Would appreciate candid feedback on this montage-- http://youtube.com/watch?v=PikJFZ1sBe4

Couple chose song; I secured synch rights from the artist.
Shot with a PD170. Edited in Premiere Pro2.

Harm Millaard · May 21st, 2007, 09:43 AM

This is just a personal reaction and as you know taste varies. I thought you overdid all the color changes a bit, especially the stark B&W scenes near the end. To my taste there were too much overlays used and the lack of a tripod is rather obvious. For moving shots I would suggest to use a Steadicam or similar. Some shots were noticeably unbalanced. The scene length where the bridegroom's hand, despite the slomo, look like he is intending to unzip the bride's dress were too long and the scene was repeated another time. I did not find that very interesting.

I hope you do not mind these remarks, they are purely personal. The couple chose the wrong music IMO, much too slow for a nice video.

Greg Schlueter · May 21st, 2007, 09:47 AM

Thanks Harm... you did no harm... great feedback.

Michael Liebergot · May 21st, 2007, 10:59 AM

Greg I liked the song choice. I saw where you wanted to make the music sound like it was happening realtime by mixing in live background audio with it.
But I would do 2 things first.

1. Add a bit of echo to the music track to make it sound ike it was happening at the event.

2. Lower the background audio a lot, as it's way too hot and distracting to the audio. Especially during the quite portions.

Now as for the video itself, I ahve to agree with what is being siad so far. teh hand on the hip is a nice shot when it's done as a quick transition to another shot. But the shot lingered too long.

Also with that being the first shot of the couple, I personally would have used a nice sentimental closeup of the couple to go along with the phrase "close your eyes". The shot you used of the bride looking lovingly into the grooms eyes would be perfect here. Start off with a medium or wide shot of the couple, transtitioning to the closeup. That should will work very nicely.

Or maybe a shot of the bide by herself and then the groom by himself. This would have been more impactful. I have also found it great to use other portions of the day during the first dance (ie. cake cutting, garter bouquet etc,). Use them sparingly of course for impactive purposes.

Also the intro with the couple and the flowers overlayed, lingered too long and was distracting for me as well. Too many flower and way too many candle shots. Use them once and be done with it.

Your shots don't look bad. But the main thing is the clips were in screen too long. Keep them shorter, transitioning from one to the other. Think shot seletion. You can use a wide shot, to a medium shot to a closeup to a transition shot etc. or reversed. You can also use portions of a clip in different parts of the video segment to tell your story, instead of lingering on a long portion of your shots. Select a main point in time as your anchor point for your video and build around it.

Checkout this clip on my site to see what I'm talking about. Keep in mind that this is only a highlight clip of the entire day for the couple, but the main focus of it is their first dance. During the actual first dance portion of their video, the seconday focus was the cake cutting. But it was done in the same manner.
http://lvproductions.net/kellybrendan.htm

Or for use of audio levels take alook at this clip. Especially during the climatic ending. Some of my shot selction could have been better in this clip. Too many and too long ceremony shots for example.
http://lvproductions.net/kellypeter.htm

I hope that I didn't sound too harsh, as I just wanted to make some points to make your clip more impactive and make the couple will go wow to.

Greg Schlueter · May 21st, 2007, 11:32 AM

Michael,
Thanks so much! I didn't expect such thoughtful, careful feedback... all very helpful... and greatly appreciated! I resonate with what you say.

As we know, every couple-- and therefore film-- is utterly unique. Here's a bit about this couple.... The song, chosen by the couple, has an almost hypnotic quality-- I wanted to capitalize on the sexual tension between them-- unlike other couples I have filmed, where "that" experience was a familiar old suit... and therefore either out of play, or staged at best-- center stage for this couple was some depth in their connection... their looks and movement... an almost sublime innocence, freshness, a newness... an intimacy.... THe song (and metaphor) "Flame" seemed perfect... I knew I was going to be more avante garde with this one-- thus, I used Cineon converter to try to convey a certain ethereal, flame-like "otherness"--- attempted to do some color transitions....

Do you have any recommendations of good steadicam equipment?

Michael Liebergot · May 21st, 2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Schlueter

Michael,
Thanks so much! I didn't expect such thoughtful, careful feedback... all very helpful... and greatly appreciated! I resonate with what you say.

Do you have any recommendations of good steadicam equipment?

I don't use a Steadicam, but instead use the DVTEC VD MultiRig Pro:
http://dvmultirig.com/

I can shoot rock solid, fatigue free, in practically any kind of handheld or tripod configuration. You won't get steadicam type fluid shots, as it's not mmeant to be a gimbled steadicam device. But you can get great dynamic moving camera handheld shots, as well as some fairly decent walking shots with some practice.

It's the one tool that does it all for me. I rarely use my tripod anymore for anything except in a select few instances.

Greg Schlueter · May 21st, 2007, 01:00 PM

How does that enable the fine-adjustments of focus, iris/gain (integrated by choice/preset in the V1U), and zoom... ? Is assumption with this an image at constant depth, if not stationary? I do need something with fluid motion capability...

Michael Liebergot · May 21st, 2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Schlueter

How does that enable the fine-adjustments of focus, iris/gain (integrated by choice/preset in the V1U), and zoom... ? Is assumption with this an image at constant depth, if not stationary? I do need something with fluid motion capability...

I have a Varizoom LANC remote attached to the left handgrip (as this handle does not change position except for up and down in any confirguration).
So focus and zoom control isn't an issue.

The only time that I have to go to the camera is to adjust the Gain or exposure. But you will have that problem with any type of steadicam device for a Sony camera. As only the DVX cameras have LANC remmotes capable of adjusting the zoom, focus and exposure on your camera.

Since I pretty much always shoot in pod supported mode (2 section support pod atatched to the Multi Rig and myself), then adjusting the exposure or even focus (If I'd rather use the focus ring than the LANC) isn't an issue.

And because I am using the 2 section pod, then shooting fluid handheld shots is not an issue at all period.

I leave both sections of the pod support loose and then do (Fig Rig (handles up) or Hanheld (handles down) booming shots, pan tilt shots, dutch, pan reveal shots, practically anything I want to do handheld, for very smooth, fluid, seamless footage. If I change configuration and remove the support pod, then I can switch into low mode (doggy/child cam) style shooting.

If I want constant shoulder mode shooting then I just switch into shoulder mode (although I shoot mainly I Fig Rig style mode), as I find it more steady than shoulder mode, as your body's movents are not a prevelant when you detach yorself from that 3rd point of contact. Also shooting in sholder mode limits your shooting possabilities.

As I said the only thing it isn't great at, is fluid/floating, walking glidecam type shots. But it wasn't designed for that purpose. But as I said you can still get very usable walking shots with some practice.

But if you are looking for a piece of equiptment that can deliver compact, shoot in any mode steady handheld footage. Then this is the best product on the market. Just check the dvxuser.com message boards and see for yourself. Danny Natovitch the inventor hangs out there a lot. And many many users there besides myslef swear by it.

But if you are just after Glidecam type shoting then get a glidecam and smoothshooter. But for the most part you wil be limited to that style of shooting only.

And also I forgot to mention that the Multi folds up (while still attached to your camera) and goes right back in my camera bag after shooting. This is something that NO Glidecam, Tripod, Monopod, or Shoulder Support device can do.

Greg Schlueter · May 21st, 2007, 01:47 PM

Thanks Michael-- I'm going to have to do some research on the terms you suggested... "pod supported mode (2 section support pod atatched to the Multi Rig and myself)" etc.... Thanks much...

Michael Liebergot · May 21st, 2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Schlueter

Thanks Michael-- I'm going to have to do some research on the terms you suggested... "pod supported mode (2 section support pod atatched to the Multi Rig and myself)" etc.... Thanks much...

Just take a look at the site that I mentioned. As well as the pictures and video on the http://dvmultirig.com/ website.

Mark Von Lanken · May 22nd, 2007, 11:14 AM

[QUOTE=Greg Schlueter;683136]

As we know, every couple-- and therefore film-- is utterly unique. Here's a bit about this couple.... The song, chosen by the couple, has an almost hypnotic quality-- I wanted to capitalize on the sexual tension between them-- unlike other couples I have filmed, where "that" experience was a familiar old suit... and therefore either out of play, or staged at best-- center stage for this couple was some depth in their connection... their looks and movement... an almost sublime innocence, freshness, a newness... an intimacy.... THe song (and metaphor) "Flame" seemed perfect...
QUOTE]

Hi Greg,

Michael gave you some great tips. You obviously are a student of your clients. That is a very good quality.

I really liked the idea of incorporating the candle flame, but I felt like you used the same candle too often. I did like it when you used a different candle when the flame was really tall. If they did not have a variety of candles to use, then I would have done this.

Shoot a lock down closeup of a candle. Then real slowly take it really out of focus. Then slowly bring it back into focus. A rack focus. This technique would have really added a nice dimension to the dance.

It's ironic that Micheal mentioned the Multi Rig because my DVTech Multi Rig just arrived today. I'm anxious to try it out.

I do have a first dance clip online. We used three cameras and it looks like you used one, but it may still give you some ideas and it incorporates many of the visual ideas that Michael talked about. It was encoded for the couple, but since it is one of my favorite first dances, it is still online.
http://tulsaweddingvideos.com/video/FV1stDance.wmv

Greg Schlueter · May 22nd, 2007, 12:35 PM

Thanks so much Mark.
Great ideas. I look forward to reviewing your clip.
Let me know how your multi-rig turns out!

Vito DeFilippo · May 22nd, 2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Von Lanken

Shoot a lock down closeup of a candle. Then real slowly take it really out of focus. Then slowly bring it back into focus. A rack focus. [/url]

Perhaps it's too anal a distinction, but my understanding of a rack focus is not just so much putting something in and out of focus, but adjusting the focus from one element to another. That is, from the candle in your example, to the couple in the background or whatever.

It makes me wonder if your example as you describe it has a term as well, or does it also qualify as a rack focus?

Mark Von Lanken · May 22nd, 2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vito DeFilippo

Perhaps it's too anal a distinction, but my understanding of a rack focus is not just so much putting something in and out of focus, but adjusting the focus from one element to another. That is, from the candle in your example, to the couple in the background or whatever.

It makes me wonder if your example as you describe it has a term as well, or does it also qualify as a rack focus?

Hi Vito,

I don't think it's too anal. Maybe someone can chime in and help us.

Travis Bowers · May 22nd, 2007, 01:32 PM

That multi rig looks sweet. Looks like varizoom only makes a zoom control for the Panny DVX though. The one with focus/zoom/iris is only for the HD Panny i think? never-the less, i think i might have to pick me one up, 3 rigs in one, what a deal!

May 21st, 2007, 09:01 AM	#1
Greg Schlueter Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Erie, Pennsylvania Posts: 43	Wedding First Dance Montage - FEEDBACK! Greetings- Would appreciate candid feedback on this montage-- http://youtube.com/watch?v=PikJFZ1sBe4 Couple chose song; I secured synch rights from the artist. Shot with a PD170. Edited in Premiere Pro2.

May 21st, 2007, 09:43 AM	#2
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	This is just a personal reaction and as you know taste varies. I thought you overdid all the color changes a bit, especially the stark B&W scenes near the end. To my taste there were too much overlays used and the lack of a tripod is rather obvious. For moving shots I would suggest to use a Steadicam or similar. Some shots were noticeably unbalanced. The scene length where the bridegroom's hand, despite the slomo, look like he is intending to unzip the bride's dress were too long and the scene was repeated another time. I did not find that very interesting. I hope you do not mind these remarks, they are purely personal. The couple chose the wrong music IMO, much too slow for a nice video. Last edited by Harm Millaard; May 21st, 2007 at 10:51 AM.

May 21st, 2007, 10:59 AM	#4
Michael Liebergot Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,505	Greg I liked the song choice. I saw where you wanted to make the music sound like it was happening realtime by mixing in live background audio with it. But I would do 2 things first. 1. Add a bit of echo to the music track to make it sound ike it was happening at the event. 2. Lower the background audio a lot, as it's way too hot and distracting to the audio. Especially during the quite portions. Now as for the video itself, I ahve to agree with what is being siad so far. teh hand on the hip is a nice shot when it's done as a quick transition to another shot. But the shot lingered too long. Also with that being the first shot of the couple, I personally would have used a nice sentimental closeup of the couple to go along with the phrase "close your eyes". The shot you used of the bride looking lovingly into the grooms eyes would be perfect here. Start off with a medium or wide shot of the couple, transtitioning to the closeup. That should will work very nicely. Or maybe a shot of the bide by herself and then the groom by himself. This would have been more impactful. I have also found it great to use other portions of the day during the first dance (ie. cake cutting, garter bouquet etc,). Use them sparingly of course for impactive purposes. Also the intro with the couple and the flowers overlayed, lingered too long and was distracting for me as well. Too many flower and way too many candle shots. Use them once and be done with it. Your shots don't look bad. But the main thing is the clips were in screen too long. Keep them shorter, transitioning from one to the other. Think shot seletion. You can use a wide shot, to a medium shot to a closeup to a transition shot etc. or reversed. You can also use portions of a clip in different parts of the video segment to tell your story, instead of lingering on a long portion of your shots. Select a main point in time as your anchor point for your video and build around it. Checkout this clip on my site to see what I'm talking about. Keep in mind that this is only a highlight clip of the entire day for the couple, but the main focus of it is their first dance. During the actual first dance portion of their video, the seconday focus was the cake cutting. But it was done in the same manner. http://lvproductions.net/kellybrendan.htm Or for use of audio levels take alook at this clip. Especially during the climatic ending. Some of my shot selction could have been better in this clip. Too many and too long ceremony shots for example. http://lvproductions.net/kellypeter.htm I hope that I didn't sound too harsh, as I just wanted to make some points to make your clip more impactive and make the couple will go wow to. __________________ Michael www.lvpvideo.com

May 22nd, 2007, 11:14 AM	#11
Mark Von Lanken Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 910	[QUOTE=Greg Schlueter;683136] As we know, every couple-- and therefore film-- is utterly unique. Here's a bit about this couple.... The song, chosen by the couple, has an almost hypnotic quality-- I wanted to capitalize on the sexual tension between them-- unlike other couples I have filmed, where "that" experience was a familiar old suit... and therefore either out of play, or staged at best-- center stage for this couple was some depth in their connection... their looks and movement... an almost sublime innocence, freshness, a newness... an intimacy.... THe song (and metaphor) "Flame" seemed perfect... QUOTE] Hi Greg, Michael gave you some great tips. You obviously are a student of your clients. That is a very good quality. I really liked the idea of incorporating the candle flame, but I felt like you used the same candle too often. I did like it when you used a different candle when the flame was really tall. If they did not have a variety of candles to use, then I would have done this. Shoot a lock down closeup of a candle. Then real slowly take it really out of focus. Then slowly bring it back into focus. A rack focus. This technique would have really added a nice dimension to the dance. It's ironic that Micheal mentioned the Multi Rig because my DVTech Multi Rig just arrived today. I'm anxious to try it out. I do have a first dance clip online. We used three cameras and it looks like you used one, but it may still give you some ideas and it incorporates many of the visual ideas that Michael talked about. It was encoded for the couple, but since it is one of my favorite first dances, it is still online. http://tulsaweddingvideos.com/video/FV1stDance.wmv __________________ Mark Von Lanken www.VonWeddingFilms.com

May 21st, 2007, 09:47 AM	#3
Greg Schlueter Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Erie, Pennsylvania Posts: 43	Thanks Harm... you did no harm... great feedback.

May 21st, 2007, 11:32 AM	#5
Greg Schlueter Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Erie, Pennsylvania Posts: 43	Michael, Thanks so much! I didn't expect such thoughtful, careful feedback... all very helpful... and greatly appreciated! I resonate with what you say. As we know, every couple-- and therefore film-- is utterly unique. Here's a bit about this couple.... The song, chosen by the couple, has an almost hypnotic quality-- I wanted to capitalize on the sexual tension between them-- unlike other couples I have filmed, where "that" experience was a familiar old suit... and therefore either out of play, or staged at best-- center stage for this couple was some depth in their connection... their looks and movement... an almost sublime innocence, freshness, a newness... an intimacy.... THe song (and metaphor) "Flame" seemed perfect... I knew I was going to be more avante garde with this one-- thus, I used Cineon converter to try to convey a certain ethereal, flame-like "otherness"--- attempted to do some color transitions.... Do you have any recommendations of good steadicam equipment?

May 21st, 2007, 01:00 PM	#7
Greg Schlueter Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Erie, Pennsylvania Posts: 43	How does that enable the fine-adjustments of focus, iris/gain (integrated by choice/preset in the V1U), and zoom... ? Is assumption with this an image at constant depth, if not stationary? I do need something with fluid motion capability...

May 21st, 2007, 01:47 PM	#9
Greg Schlueter Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Erie, Pennsylvania Posts: 43	Thanks Michael-- I'm going to have to do some research on the terms you suggested... "pod supported mode (2 section support pod atatched to the Multi Rig and myself)" etc.... Thanks much...

May 22nd, 2007, 12:35 PM	#12
Greg Schlueter Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Erie, Pennsylvania Posts: 43	Thanks so much Mark. Great ideas. I look forward to reviewing your clip. Let me know how your multi-rig turns out!

May 22nd, 2007, 01:32 PM	#15
Travis Bowers New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Twin Cities MN Posts: 13	That multi rig looks sweet. Looks like varizoom only makes a zoom control for the Panny DVX though. The one with focus/zoom/iris is only for the HD Panny i think? never-the less, i think i might have to pick me one up, 3 rigs in one, what a deal!