Sports shoots: adding a clock? at DVinfo.net

Jeremiah Rickert · May 14th, 2007, 05:00 PM

Is there an easy way to add a clock "bug" to a shoot? Is there a device with a simple in/out that works as a passthrough that will add a clock?

Our setup is a bit hard to explain. The short-version, is that it includes 4 cameras that go into a switcher. The switcher, however, doesn't have a way to put a clock up. Some kind of device with a BNC in/out would be swell, but either way, if anyone has any ideas, I'm all eyes.

JR

Don Bloom · May 14th, 2007, 05:25 PM

it sounds like you need a Time Code Generator.

Don

Jeremiah Rickert · May 14th, 2007, 05:39 PM

Well, it's not a time-code in that sense that I'm after, just a device that will put a running clock on the screen for the game. One that I can stop/start in sync with the game clock, so the people watching the broadcast will know how much time is left without having to point a camera at the clock every time.

Thanks for the reply though...

Edward Carlson · May 14th, 2007, 07:26 PM

Maybe a bit cheesy, but how about a camera pointed at the clock with a picture in picture type deal? You would need a 5th camera and input, or you could use one of your 4 cameras and just do it periodically through the game. I have seen it done this way with the local TV stations.

Don Bloom · May 14th, 2007, 07:34 PM

Ah, sorry-I misread your post.

Yeah I agree-a camera on the game clock PiP'd or have a camera pan to it at the breaks in the action.

Don

Jeremiah Rickert · May 14th, 2007, 08:10 PM

Yeah, we've been using the PiP to do that, but the PiP window has only two size settings, one is too big, and the other one is even bigger. That's why I was thinking there was some more elegant solution. I seem to remember that even those old VHS boards had an option for putting a timer on the screen as an overlay, I could be wrong though, been years since I've seen one.

Seems like an overlay would be simple enough, but I guess not :) Thanks for the replies.

JR

Edward Carlson · May 14th, 2007, 08:13 PM

If the board has an SDI input you could run a timer from a computer. Most NLEs have a TC generator built in. You would just need an SDI output from the computer into the board.

Louis Maddalena · May 14th, 2007, 08:16 PM

The above suggestion is what I was going to suggest. Go out from a NLE Editor, and up stream key it in the switcher.

Peter Jefferson · May 14th, 2007, 11:14 PM

grab a lil app called xnote stopwatch

run it for the duration you need and use Camtasia to capture

change the colour scheme of your clock for a clean Chromakey

voila..

i do this all the time, never had a problem

as for TC generation filters, forget ti, they dont offer teh flexibility if a simple overay, in addition the configuration of said TC could adversaly be affected by the clip or the tracks duration

have a seperate entity for yoru timekeeping (in this case aesthetics) would be alot more flexibility as you can not only intercut your footage and keep the timer going, but u can also allocate specific colour schemes based on the colour scheme of teh actual presentation and or titles themselves

Jeremiah Rickert · May 15th, 2007, 02:05 AM

You mean, use this app, capture it, so I have an .avi file of the clock running, then composite it into the footage? (I think that's what you're saying).

This is for a live feed, so compositing isn't going to be possible in this case. We'd still be back at our original problem of having a PiP window that's still too big.

One idea I had was to set the camera to display its timecode and just have a tape pre-striped with a timecode. Then record on the same tape, and have the timecode running on the cam...cut away while the display is cycled back to off.

It will have miliseconds, but it might still be okay.

Peter Jefferson · May 15th, 2007, 02:07 AM

overlay composite is what im saying

waht are u using for the live feed?

as for stripign timecode, forget it it will reset each time u hit record.. even with TC run or REC run, it wont make a difference, teh TC on tape will only have the TC AT THAT TIME, ditch the prerecorded TC

Jeremiah Rickert · May 15th, 2007, 02:40 AM

4 XL2's...BNC into a switcher and XLR into an audio mixer. The switcher has 4 inputs. It has a PiP, but its two sizes are too big and even bigger than that.

From there it goes into a comp with an Osprey Card, which is then used by windows media encoder to push the live stream up to a server. Unless there's something in windows media encoder that I don't know about, I don't see how we can put a clock overlay on.

The software we have (proprietary for controlling the stream and accessing the servers that stream it) has an option for putting an overlay on, but it's static, generated as a .jpg. It's meant for team names, and the score. Even if you adapted that system for a clock, it would have to refresh every second, so it would be on the screen strobing people blind.

That interface is the only way we can control what goes from the Osprey card into Windows Media Encoder.

We'll probably just stick to using our enormous PiP, but I figured I'd see if any of the brains on this board had any suggestions.

JR

Jeremiah Rickert · May 15th, 2007, 05:00 PM

Found this device...too spendy for us, but it would do the trick I think.

http://www.horita.com/video.htm#VS-50

JR

May 14th, 2007, 05:00 PM	#1
Jeremiah Rickert Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Newberg, Oregon Posts: 494	Sports shoots: adding a clock? Is there an easy way to add a clock "bug" to a shoot? Is there a device with a simple in/out that works as a passthrough that will add a clock? Our setup is a bit hard to explain. The short-version, is that it includes 4 cameras that go into a switcher. The switcher, however, doesn't have a way to put a clock up. Some kind of device with a BNC in/out would be swell, but either way, if anyone has any ideas, I'm all eyes. JR

May 14th, 2007, 05:39 PM	#3
Jeremiah Rickert Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Newberg, Oregon Posts: 494	sorta... Well, it's not a time-code in that sense that I'm after, just a device that will put a running clock on the screen for the game. One that I can stop/start in sync with the game clock, so the people watching the broadcast will know how much time is left without having to point a camera at the clock every time. Thanks for the reply though...

May 14th, 2007, 08:10 PM	#6
Jeremiah Rickert Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Newberg, Oregon Posts: 494	Yup... Yeah, we've been using the PiP to do that, but the PiP window has only two size settings, one is too big, and the other one is even bigger. That's why I was thinking there was some more elegant solution. I seem to remember that even those old VHS boards had an option for putting a timer on the screen as an overlay, I could be wrong though, been years since I've seen one. Seems like an overlay would be simple enough, but I guess not :) Thanks for the replies. JR

May 15th, 2007, 02:05 AM	#10
Jeremiah Rickert Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Newberg, Oregon Posts: 494	ahh... You mean, use this app, capture it, so I have an .avi file of the clock running, then composite it into the footage? (I think that's what you're saying). This is for a live feed, so compositing isn't going to be possible in this case. We'd still be back at our original problem of having a PiP window that's still too big. One idea I had was to set the camera to display its timecode and just have a tape pre-striped with a timecode. Then record on the same tape, and have the timecode running on the cam...cut away while the display is cycled back to off. It will have miliseconds, but it might still be okay.

May 15th, 2007, 02:40 AM	#12
Jeremiah Rickert Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Newberg, Oregon Posts: 494	... 4 XL2's...BNC into a switcher and XLR into an audio mixer. The switcher has 4 inputs. It has a PiP, but its two sizes are too big and even bigger than that. From there it goes into a comp with an Osprey Card, which is then used by windows media encoder to push the live stream up to a server. Unless there's something in windows media encoder that I don't know about, I don't see how we can put a clock overlay on. The software we have (proprietary for controlling the stream and accessing the servers that stream it) has an option for putting an overlay on, but it's static, generated as a .jpg. It's meant for team names, and the score. Even if you adapted that system for a clock, it would have to refresh every second, so it would be on the screen strobing people blind. That interface is the only way we can control what goes from the Osprey card into Windows Media Encoder. We'll probably just stick to using our enormous PiP, but I figured I'd see if any of the brains on this board had any suggestions. JR

May 14th, 2007, 05:25 PM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	it sounds like you need a Time Code Generator. Don

May 14th, 2007, 07:26 PM	#4
Edward Carlson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Hollywood, CA, United States Posts: 807	Maybe a bit cheesy, but how about a camera pointed at the clock with a picture in picture type deal? You would need a 5th camera and input, or you could use one of your 4 cameras and just do it periodically through the game. I have seen it done this way with the local TV stations.

May 14th, 2007, 07:34 PM	#5
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Ah, sorry-I misread your post. Yeah I agree-a camera on the game clock PiP'd or have a camera pan to it at the breaks in the action. Don

May 14th, 2007, 08:13 PM	#7
Edward Carlson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Hollywood, CA, United States Posts: 807	If the board has an SDI input you could run a timer from a computer. Most NLEs have a TC generator built in. You would just need an SDI output from the computer into the board.

May 14th, 2007, 08:16 PM	#8
Louis Maddalena Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NYC Area. Posts: 550	The above suggestion is what I was going to suggest. Go out from a NLE Editor, and up stream key it in the switcher.

May 14th, 2007, 11:14 PM	#9
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	grab a lil app called xnote stopwatch run it for the duration you need and use Camtasia to capture change the colour scheme of your clock for a clean Chromakey voila.. i do this all the time, never had a problem as for TC generation filters, forget ti, they dont offer teh flexibility if a simple overay, in addition the configuration of said TC could adversaly be affected by the clip or the tracks duration have a seperate entity for yoru timekeeping (in this case aesthetics) would be alot more flexibility as you can not only intercut your footage and keep the timer going, but u can also allocate specific colour schemes based on the colour scheme of teh actual presentation and or titles themselves

May 15th, 2007, 02:07 AM	#11
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	overlay composite is what im saying waht are u using for the live feed? as for stripign timecode, forget it it will reset each time u hit record.. even with TC run or REC run, it wont make a difference, teh TC on tape will only have the TC AT THAT TIME, ditch the prerecorded TC

May 15th, 2007, 05:00 PM	#13
Jeremiah Rickert Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Newberg, Oregon Posts: 494	found this... Found this device...too spendy for us, but it would do the trick I think. http://www.horita.com/video.htm#VS-50 JR