Two Cam's at DVinfo.net

Gary Randall · April 20th, 2007, 09:43 PM

If I wanted to do a wedding and use two Camera's (GL2 & Sony DCRVX2100) can they be connected together? So I can get all the footage on one tape. Is there someway to switch back and forth from cam to cam? I know this is a "Newbe" question, but I thank you for any help

Gary

Don Bloom · April 21st, 2007, 06:27 AM

in order to do this the first thing you would need is a video switcher and a couple of monitors along with a tape deck and lots and lots of cable to connect the cameras to the switcher. You MIGHT be able to rent all of this or even if you bought it used you're going to spend some serious cash.
My real question though is WHY would you want to do that. In over 20 years of weddings I've done a live edit on perhaps 2 and they were more of the celeb type people-4 or 5 cameras, playing thru to projectors for all of the 1500 guests to see both happened to be outdoors and they were about 3 years apart, but other than those I've never done a live cut for a wedding.
In typical weddings there's really not a need or legitimate reason to do this and honestly if you have never run a multiple camera system before with a switcher and calling the shots for a once in a lifetime event, I really don't think you want to start practicing on a paying client.
If you are setting up a permanent camera system for a church to record weddings then there are other equipment considerations but if this is a paying gig for yourself honestly I would skip the live cut and just use the 2 cameras either both manned or 1 manned and 1 locked down and go from there.
Don

Gary Randall · April 21st, 2007, 07:28 AM

Don,

Thanks for the input. I guess my real question should have been this; I am using ulead 10 to edit the wedding and I can't figure out how to mix the two camera tapes together. I will be using a wireless mic (on groom). Anyhow, I now know not to connect the two cams

Gary

Don Bloom · April 21st, 2007, 07:42 AM

Ahhh, a whole different thing. What you're looking to do is done in EDITING or Post-Production
I'm not 100% about Ulead 10 but in general, you need to load all the tapes from both cameras into your computer-whether you use the capture program from Ulead 10 or a 3rd party capture program.
Name the tapes accordingly-tape 1-1 preceremony and ceremony, tape 2-1 (from other camera) ceremony etc or whatever naming/numbering system you decide on so you have some idea of whats on each tape.
Load all the tapes, then start cutting. Well almost.
first take your tapes and IIRC you can run multiple track of video in Ulead-so you need to place 1 cameras video on 1 track and the other cameras video on another track, find a common point of noise and or video to be able to sync them together. Here's where I lose it with Ulead since I have never used the product. You need to be able to see both tracks at once so you need to be able to shrink th esizes of both tracks and reposition both tothe extreme sides of the screen so you can watch the action of both tracks and honestly I don't know how to do that in ULead. Once you accomplish that THEN you can cut the wedding. Camera 1 camera 2 camera 1 or what ever.
THEN you can take the finished product back to tape or DVD.

Don

Waldemar Winkler · April 21st, 2007, 02:13 PM

Don's right. If you can shrink the size of each video clip so you can see both simultaneously it is simply a matter of sync-ing the videoand audio tracks on the time line. I used to do this all the time with Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro until I moved to FCP5 to take advantage of their real-time internal switching feature called "Multi-Track".

I know nothing about ULead products, but if it will allow multiple tracks of video and audio, the the approach I used (as follows) works quite well:

Place all camera angles on the timeline and insure they are in sync.
Don't touch anything about the bottom video track until you are finished.
Work the upper video tracks until you are satisfied with the project.
Resize the bottom video track to full screen.
Then, one by one, resize the upper tracks to full screen. This may take quite a bit of time.
Finally, trim any video on the bottom layer that is completely obscured by any upper layers of video. The only real value to this is reducing the file size of the video project folder. If that is not a big deal or simply doesn't matter, skip this step.

Finally, with the video set, work the audio tracks until satisfied.

Having shot a couple wedding with the same equipment you are planning to use, make sure you have a good color correcting application within your NLE. The Canon and the SONY 2100 have much different color characteristics if left at factory settings. Both allow color adjustment, but I have no real experience in making those kind of adjustments.

Giroud Francois · April 21st, 2007, 03:42 PM

an easy way to proceed would be to use the two cams as player on on video mixer. you can use the lcd monitor of the cam as preview of each channel.
then with the mixer you pass from one cam to the other, choosing the best angle. you record everthing on a third machine (recorder or PC)
When it is over, you just need to cut to eventually shorten the video.
this just require that both camera are filming non-stop, so you can sync them at the begining and let roll.
videonics is selling a mixer with 2 DV input, so you would not loose any quality.
cutting a multi camera event is painful and obviously if you can mix live, it is a huge advantage, doing it offline keep this advantage while removing stress of the live take.

Gary Randall · April 21st, 2007, 08:27 PM

Thanks guys for all the great info. not sure I understand it, but I think I got enough to go forward....You guys have always given me great advice and I thank you for it. I was laid off my Job this past Jan and have always loved do video. So I prayed about it and now I am hoping to do it full time. I know I will have a long hard road ahead, but I will just trust in the lord and do the best I can. I just hope at 48 I am not to old to do this. The one thing I have going for me is, I LOVE doing video

Mark Holland · April 23rd, 2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Randall

Thanks guys for all the great info. not sure I understand it, but I think I got enough to go forward....You guys have always given me great advice and I thank you for it. I was laid off my Job this past Jan and have always loved do video. So I prayed about it and now I am hoping to do it full time. I know I will have a long hard road ahead, but I will just trust in the lord and do the best I can. I just hope at 48 I am not to old to do this. The one thing I have going for me is, I LOVE doing video

Gary,

Trust me, you're NOT too old to do this. I'm also 48, and I'm still in the trenches every week-end with the 20/30 something photographers. Many of the 20 something brides comment on how I seem to be "everywhere at once" during their reception.

At our age, the old TV commercial advice is more important for us, especially in this business..."Eat right, get plenty of rest..." You know the rest of that equation. (Now, if I could only take my own advice!)

Good luck!

Mark

Don Bloom · April 23rd, 2007, 08:21 AM

HeH, you youngsters! I'm 60 and still schlepping cameras-been doing it for so many years that I feel 80 sometimes. BUT when I'm doing the job, I keep up an get ahead of some of the 20something photogs ;-)
I guess experience pays off.
You gotta love doing it cause if you don't then it's just another job and frankly I hate "jobs".
Oh well back to the grind! ;-)
Don

Mark Holland · April 23rd, 2007, 08:31 AM

Don,

Thanks for that!

Many times I feel like the "old man" at these weddings. Sometimes I seem to have more in common with the parents then with the bride & groom. It's good to know I might still have a few more years left in me.

Gary,

Sorry to have seemed to hijack the thread. I sincerely just wanted to send words of encouragement your way. If you're ever in my neck of the woods, look me up! We'll have a Starbucks! (or beer, your preference)

Mark

Don Bloom · April 23rd, 2007, 09:40 AM

Mark,
I know how you feel but I've found that being older give me an advantage to be able to talk to the B&G like they were my own kids and since MY kids are generally older than the B&G they listen (well sometimes). It's also pretty funny when I walk in and I am older than the parents not to mention that if they do the longest married couple dance there are plenty of times I would win that if my wife was there and we were dancing ;-)
remember age is MIND OVER MATTER! If you don't mind it don't matter!

Thanks for the offer-if I ever get down that way again (last time was about 38 years ago but it was Fayetteville-good ol' Ft. Bragg) I'll look you up!

Don

April 20th, 2007, 09:43 PM	#1
Gary Randall Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hampton, VA Posts: 150	Two Cam's If I wanted to do a wedding and use two Camera's (GL2 & Sony DCRVX2100) can they be connected together? So I can get all the footage on one tape. Is there someway to switch back and forth from cam to cam? I know this is a "Newbe" question, but I thank you for any help Gary

April 21st, 2007, 07:28 AM	#3
Gary Randall Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hampton, VA Posts: 150	Thanks Don, Thanks for the input. I guess my real question should have been this; I am using ulead 10 to edit the wedding and I can't figure out how to mix the two camera tapes together. I will be using a wireless mic (on groom). Anyhow, I now know not to connect the two cams Gary

April 21st, 2007, 02:13 PM	#5
Waldemar Winkler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Durango, Colorado, USA Posts: 711	Don's right. If you can shrink the size of each video clip so you can see both simultaneously it is simply a matter of sync-ing the videoand audio tracks on the time line. I used to do this all the time with Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro until I moved to FCP5 to take advantage of their real-time internal switching feature called "Multi-Track". I know nothing about ULead products, but if it will allow multiple tracks of video and audio, the the approach I used (as follows) works quite well: Place all camera angles on the timeline and insure they are in sync. Don't touch anything about the bottom video track until you are finished. Work the upper video tracks until you are satisfied with the project. Resize the bottom video track to full screen. Then, one by one, resize the upper tracks to full screen. This may take quite a bit of time. Finally, trim any video on the bottom layer that is completely obscured by any upper layers of video. The only real value to this is reducing the file size of the video project folder. If that is not a big deal or simply doesn't matter, skip this step. Finally, with the video set, work the audio tracks until satisfied. Having shot a couple wedding with the same equipment you are planning to use, make sure you have a good color correcting application within your NLE. The Canon and the SONY 2100 have much different color characteristics if left at factory settings. Both allow color adjustment, but I have no real experience in making those kind of adjustments. __________________ Waldemar

April 21st, 2007, 08:27 PM	#7
Gary Randall Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hampton, VA Posts: 150	Thanks Thanks guys for all the great info. not sure I understand it, but I think I got enough to go forward....You guys have always given me great advice and I thank you for it. I was laid off my Job this past Jan and have always loved do video. So I prayed about it and now I am hoping to do it full time. I know I will have a long hard road ahead, but I will just trust in the lord and do the best I can. I just hope at 48 I am not to old to do this. The one thing I have going for me is, I LOVE doing video

April 21st, 2007, 06:27 AM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	in order to do this the first thing you would need is a video switcher and a couple of monitors along with a tape deck and lots and lots of cable to connect the cameras to the switcher. You MIGHT be able to rent all of this or even if you bought it used you're going to spend some serious cash. My real question though is WHY would you want to do that. In over 20 years of weddings I've done a live edit on perhaps 2 and they were more of the celeb type people-4 or 5 cameras, playing thru to projectors for all of the 1500 guests to see both happened to be outdoors and they were about 3 years apart, but other than those I've never done a live cut for a wedding. In typical weddings there's really not a need or legitimate reason to do this and honestly if you have never run a multiple camera system before with a switcher and calling the shots for a once in a lifetime event, I really don't think you want to start practicing on a paying client. If you are setting up a permanent camera system for a church to record weddings then there are other equipment considerations but if this is a paying gig for yourself honestly I would skip the live cut and just use the 2 cameras either both manned or 1 manned and 1 locked down and go from there. Don

April 21st, 2007, 07:42 AM	#4
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Ahhh, a whole different thing. What you're looking to do is done in EDITING or Post-Production I'm not 100% about Ulead 10 but in general, you need to load all the tapes from both cameras into your computer-whether you use the capture program from Ulead 10 or a 3rd party capture program. Name the tapes accordingly-tape 1-1 preceremony and ceremony, tape 2-1 (from other camera) ceremony etc or whatever naming/numbering system you decide on so you have some idea of whats on each tape. Load all the tapes, then start cutting. Well almost. first take your tapes and IIRC you can run multiple track of video in Ulead-so you need to place 1 cameras video on 1 track and the other cameras video on another track, find a common point of noise and or video to be able to sync them together. Here's where I lose it with Ulead since I have never used the product. You need to be able to see both tracks at once so you need to be able to shrink th esizes of both tracks and reposition both tothe extreme sides of the screen so you can watch the action of both tracks and honestly I don't know how to do that in ULead. Once you accomplish that THEN you can cut the wedding. Camera 1 camera 2 camera 1 or what ever. THEN you can take the finished product back to tape or DVD. Don

April 21st, 2007, 03:42 PM	#6
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	an easy way to proceed would be to use the two cams as player on on video mixer. you can use the lcd monitor of the cam as preview of each channel. then with the mixer you pass from one cam to the other, choosing the best angle. you record everthing on a third machine (recorder or PC) When it is over, you just need to cut to eventually shorten the video. this just require that both camera are filming non-stop, so you can sync them at the begining and let roll. videonics is selling a mixer with 2 DV input, so you would not loose any quality. cutting a multi camera event is painful and obviously if you can mix live, it is a huge advantage, doing it offline keep this advantage while removing stress of the live take.

April 23rd, 2007, 08:21 AM	#9
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	HeH, you youngsters! I'm 60 and still schlepping cameras-been doing it for so many years that I feel 80 sometimes. BUT when I'm doing the job, I keep up an get ahead of some of the 20something photogs ;-) I guess experience pays off. You gotta love doing it cause if you don't then it's just another job and frankly I hate "jobs". Oh well back to the grind! ;-) Don

April 23rd, 2007, 08:31 AM	#10
Mark Holland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central North Carolina (Raleigh, Durham, & surrounding areas) Posts: 301	Don, Thanks for that! Many times I feel like the "old man" at these weddings. Sometimes I seem to have more in common with the parents then with the bride & groom. It's good to know I might still have a few more years left in me. Gary, Sorry to have seemed to hijack the thread. I sincerely just wanted to send words of encouragement your way. If you're ever in my neck of the woods, look me up! We'll have a Starbucks! (or beer, your preference) Mark

April 23rd, 2007, 09:40 AM	#11
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Mark, I know how you feel but I've found that being older give me an advantage to be able to talk to the B&G like they were my own kids and since MY kids are generally older than the B&G they listen (well sometimes). It's also pretty funny when I walk in and I am older than the parents not to mention that if they do the longest married couple dance there are plenty of times I would win that if my wife was there and we were dancing ;-) remember age is MIND OVER MATTER! If you don't mind it don't matter! Thanks for the offer-if I ever get down that way again (last time was about 38 years ago but it was Fayetteville-good ol' Ft. Bragg) I'll look you up! Don