Screening samples in HD vs SD at DVinfo.net

Patrick Moreau · April 17th, 2007, 09:27 AM

I want to show HD samples in our meeting room to compare to regular SD and give our couples a chance to upgrade and bemore educated about the difference. We will be including HD next year so I also want to be able to show it to future clients.

Here is my concern, the 37" LCd display we have in our meeting room only goes up o 1366x768 resolution. I have it attached ot a mac mini to playback HD or SD content. However, since the screen resolution is lower than HD resolution and a mac will naturally do a decent job of scaling up an SD picture to fill the screen, the difference between HD and SD is not as noticeable. If I play both samples on my 30" Dell in my office, the difference is huge, but I'm trying to find out if there is a way to show that with our LCd TV. Do I need a higher resolution Lcd to properly show this? It looks like most have this resolution or lower.

Patrick

Kevin Shaw · April 17th, 2007, 10:33 AM

My wife and I just bought a 42" 1080P LCD HDTV at Sam's Club for $1099 plus tax. I'm still working on testing whether that's noticeably better than 720p displays, but hopefully so. On our old rear-projection HDTV, my wife says she doesn't see much quality difference with a Blu-ray movie than with good regular DVDs.

Jon Omiatek · April 17th, 2007, 11:25 AM

I use my sony SXRD to show demos in HD. You need a minumum of 1080i to show the full quality. I play my content from a tvix box, which I highly recommend for showing demos for both SD AND HD content. You can fit a ton of demos in a small box for under $300. Not to mention, the fact, it can display 1080p signals.

Jon

Patrick Moreau · April 17th, 2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Omiatek

I use my sony SXRD to show demos in HD. You need a minumum of 1080i to show the full quality. I play my content from a tvix box, which I highly recommend for showing demos for both SD AND HD content. You can fit a ton of demos in a small box for under $300. Not to mention, the fact, it can display 1080p signals.

Jon

Thanks Jon. The Mac Mini is a great way to show demos and our website etc, so I am happy with that. It can also do 1080 P or whatever else you could ask.

Is there any way of preoperly comparing SD vs HD with our display?

Jon Omiatek · April 17th, 2007, 12:04 PM

Your tv will only display 720p, I am assuming the progressive part, but most hdtv's will display 720p. I think there is a noticeable difference on my tv when comparing the two, meaning 480i vs 720p. I think the greatest difference is when you show footage in 1080i. I deinterlace my footage prior editing with Cineform Connect HD, it makes a huge difference.

The problem I run into, is that people notice the difference but area happy is SD land. We still have people in my area shooting on SVHS and capturing to the mac and editing digitally. I think the sale comes from you versus the sale being made on the SD/HD version of the picture. Obviously, your shooting and editing are top notch. Yes, HD looks a ton better than SD but most do not care enough to spend more money for HD. My shooting style is much different than yours, I shoot more in documentary style vs cinematic style. I wouldn't mind edit and shooting in a cinematic style, in my area, they are so concerned about price and coverage.

At this point, how many people have the technology to watch it? I do, but I buy everything when it comes out. LOL I personally know of 4 people who have HD dvd players, which 3 are sony ps3 owners.

The 30inch dell, which I am assuming is your computer monitor, is a very nice monitor capable of much more than your 1080i hdv camera. I suggest you show it on the dell 30" until you get a new tv to show it on.

I am sure 30" is plenty for a demo.

Jon

Patrick Moreau · April 17th, 2007, 12:07 PM

Thanks for the info Jon.

Peter Jefferson · April 18th, 2007, 01:09 AM

actually Pat, your best option is to show the SD in DVD format, while showing HD in BD or HD DVD format... this would be the most accurate representation of the finished work.

Jon Omiatek · April 18th, 2007, 07:30 AM

I agree with SD DVD, HD DVD & Blue-Ray would be your an actual representation of the finished product. Do you have a blue ray burner, if not, I do. Secondly, do you have a blue-ray dvd player?

Jon

Patrick Moreau · April 18th, 2007, 08:08 AM

No Hd burners yet, I just use a mac mini in th emeeting room and make an Hd DVD, but as a data DVD and run from the mac's hard drive. I wan to tell clients that HD is an upgrade worth x amount and then show them the difference. Problem is, the mini upscales the sd footage to fill the screen and the screen isnt at a high enough resolution to show the HD properly, so they don't look as different as they are.

Peter Jefferson · April 18th, 2007, 08:08 AM

PS3 is a nifty lil tax deduction ;)

and if u cant author BD discs, thats ok, coz there are ways to make PS3 play HD footage with no need for menus

Jon Omiatek · April 18th, 2007, 09:44 AM

Play the SD dvd from your SD DVD player and play the HD dvd from the mac mini. Another option, is ff you buy a blue ray player, ie playstation 3, I can burn the Blue ray dvd for you.

Jon

Patrick Moreau · April 18th, 2007, 10:14 AM

Thanks for the offer Jon. No Blur Ray or HD DVD player thoguh, just the mac mini.

I think the best bet will be to show them on the 30" dell monitor which is much higher than HD resolution. I'll just have to take them into my office for that.

Jason Bowers · April 18th, 2007, 01:46 PM

Hi Patrick,
That might do the trick but is it an actual representation of what the client might recieve once it is burned? I have seen HD and SD side by side on a G5 displayed at a trade show and the difference wasn't that noticeable. Also I own a Toshiba 1080p LCD and I don't notice a difference between SD and HD DVD all that much. The colour is a little brighter that is about it. I would let your work speak for itself, it is truly inspiring and beautiful, so I would take out the SD price and only offer HD and rather than upselling offer it to the clients for a nominal charge and be the hero rather than a salesperson.

Patrick Moreau · April 18th, 2007, 10:47 PM

Jason,

I will be including it for '08 but was considering it as an upgrade for current couples under contract. I agree it would be best to not sell it as an upgrade in the future, but for now I also don't want to give it away. I have talked several people in sticking with SD and a couple others into going for HD to test out the workflow and what not so we are ready for all Hd next year.

When I compare the Hd samples on our 30" Dell monitor, which is much higher than HD rez, the difference is huge- and I'm just talkng about the sharpness and detail. It is tough to show the difference on an LCd though.

Kevin Shaw · April 19th, 2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Moreau

When I compare the Hd samples on our 30" Dell monitor, which is much higher than HD rez, the difference is huge- and I'm just talkng about the sharpness and detail. It is tough to show the difference on an LCd though.

This sounds odd given that full 1920x1080 resolution is possible on today's better HDTVs, so the difference from SD should be as apparent there as on any higher-resolution display. But I'm testing this on a 1080p display and also not seeing as much difference as I expected between HD and SD versions of the same footage. Could it be that our HDTVs aren't displaying full HD resolution even when we think they are? Some sort of connection issue or something?

April 17th, 2007, 09:27 AM	#1
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Screening samples in HD vs SD I want to show HD samples in our meeting room to compare to regular SD and give our couples a chance to upgrade and bemore educated about the difference. We will be including HD next year so I also want to be able to show it to future clients. Here is my concern, the 37" LCd display we have in our meeting room only goes up o 1366x768 resolution. I have it attached ot a mac mini to playback HD or SD content. However, since the screen resolution is lower than HD resolution and a mac will naturally do a decent job of scaling up an SD picture to fill the screen, the difference between HD and SD is not as noticeable. If I play both samples on my 30" Dell in my office, the difference is huge, but I'm trying to find out if there is a way to show that with our LCd TV. Do I need a higher resolution Lcd to properly show this? It looks like most have this resolution or lower. Patrick

April 17th, 2007, 10:33 AM	#2
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	My wife and I just bought a 42" 1080P LCD HDTV at Sam's Club for $1099 plus tax. I'm still working on testing whether that's noticeably better than 720p displays, but hopefully so. On our old rear-projection HDTV, my wife says she doesn't see much quality difference with a Blu-ray movie than with good regular DVDs.

April 17th, 2007, 11:25 AM	#3
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	I use my sony SXRD to show demos in HD. You need a minumum of 1080i to show the full quality. I play my content from a tvix box, which I highly recommend for showing demos for both SD AND HD content. You can fit a ton of demos in a small box for under $300. Not to mention, the fact, it can display 1080p signals. Jon

April 17th, 2007, 12:04 PM	#5
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	Your tv will only display 720p, I am assuming the progressive part, but most hdtv's will display 720p. I think there is a noticeable difference on my tv when comparing the two, meaning 480i vs 720p. I think the greatest difference is when you show footage in 1080i. I deinterlace my footage prior editing with Cineform Connect HD, it makes a huge difference. The problem I run into, is that people notice the difference but area happy is SD land. We still have people in my area shooting on SVHS and capturing to the mac and editing digitally. I think the sale comes from you versus the sale being made on the SD/HD version of the picture. Obviously, your shooting and editing are top notch. Yes, HD looks a ton better than SD but most do not care enough to spend more money for HD. My shooting style is much different than yours, I shoot more in documentary style vs cinematic style. I wouldn't mind edit and shooting in a cinematic style, in my area, they are so concerned about price and coverage. At this point, how many people have the technology to watch it? I do, but I buy everything when it comes out. LOL I personally know of 4 people who have HD dvd players, which 3 are sony ps3 owners. The 30inch dell, which I am assuming is your computer monitor, is a very nice monitor capable of much more than your 1080i hdv camera. I suggest you show it on the dell 30" until you get a new tv to show it on. I am sure 30" is plenty for a demo. Jon

April 17th, 2007, 12:07 PM	#6
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Thanks for the info Jon.

April 18th, 2007, 01:09 AM	#7
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	actually Pat, your best option is to show the SD in DVD format, while showing HD in BD or HD DVD format... this would be the most accurate representation of the finished work.

April 18th, 2007, 07:30 AM	#8
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	I agree with SD DVD, HD DVD & Blue-Ray would be your an actual representation of the finished product. Do you have a blue ray burner, if not, I do. Secondly, do you have a blue-ray dvd player? Jon

April 18th, 2007, 08:08 AM	#9
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	No Hd burners yet, I just use a mac mini in th emeeting room and make an Hd DVD, but as a data DVD and run from the mac's hard drive. I wan to tell clients that HD is an upgrade worth x amount and then show them the difference. Problem is, the mini upscales the sd footage to fill the screen and the screen isnt at a high enough resolution to show the HD properly, so they don't look as different as they are.

April 18th, 2007, 09:44 AM	#11
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	Play the SD dvd from your SD DVD player and play the HD dvd from the mac mini. Another option, is ff you buy a blue ray player, ie playstation 3, I can burn the Blue ray dvd for you. Jon

April 18th, 2007, 10:14 AM	#12
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Thanks for the offer Jon. No Blur Ray or HD DVD player thoguh, just the mac mini. I think the best bet will be to show them on the 30" dell monitor which is much higher than HD resolution. I'll just have to take them into my office for that.

April 18th, 2007, 01:46 PM	#13
Jason Bowers Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thunder Bay, ON. Canada Posts: 374	Hi Patrick, That might do the trick but is it an actual representation of what the client might recieve once it is burned? I have seen HD and SD side by side on a G5 displayed at a trade show and the difference wasn't that noticeable. Also I own a Toshiba 1080p LCD and I don't notice a difference between SD and HD DVD all that much. The colour is a little brighter that is about it. I would let your work speak for itself, it is truly inspiring and beautiful, so I would take out the SD price and only offer HD and rather than upselling offer it to the clients for a nominal charge and be the hero rather than a salesperson.

April 18th, 2007, 10:47 PM	#14
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Jason, I will be including it for '08 but was considering it as an upgrade for current couples under contract. I agree it would be best to not sell it as an upgrade in the future, but for now I also don't want to give it away. I have talked several people in sticking with SD and a couple others into going for HD to test out the workflow and what not so we are ready for all Hd next year. When I compare the Hd samples on our 30" Dell monitor, which is much higher than HD rez, the difference is huge- and I'm just talkng about the sharpness and detail. It is tough to show the difference on an LCd though.