What do you tell '07 clients about shooting HD? at DVinfo.net

Patrick Moreau · April 5th, 2007, 08:52 AM

Okay, so we just grabbed three Canon XHA1s and an HV20 and are all set to film in HD. The thing is, when we did the upgrade we were almost fully booked for '07 under contracts that had no mention of HD.

For those who can now shoot HD and have contracts pending for SD projects, how do you handle this?

I am considering offering everybody an upgrade price so they can have their video re-released in HD when it is easier to deliver. If I do that, I could edit in HD and donconvert on export or try and edit in DV and then reimport in HDV down the road. Considering how busy we are, I was also thinking of not saying anything and just delivering SD and leaving it at that. My concern is that our website now mentions HD and our cameras clearly say it as well so it wouldn't be too unlikely that a current couple sees it somewhere and asks about HD later. Of course everthing will be shot in HD so it would be possible, but if it means re-editing anything it really wouldn't be worth the cost to have it done.

So, how do you handle this? Please only respond if you can actually shoot HD now but have pending contracts for SD work.

Patrick
www.still-motion.ca

Jon Omiatek · April 5th, 2007, 10:25 AM

I offer it to all of my clients but most do not care if it's shot in HD due to the extra cost. Last year out of 118 weddings, I had 21 people choose HD. Out of those 21 only about 1/2 paid extra, the other ten clients paid $100 extra.
I wanted to push as many to HDV to test out the work flow. Since I have a significant amount of extra work with HD, I have decided not to give anymore discounts on HD.

I now charge $500 upgrade to get HD on Blue ray disk, HDV Master tapes(NLE timeline printed to tape) and SD DVD's. Extra copies of Blue Ray DVD's are $50 each disk. I also give the option of Tvix.

I have 15 clients this year and only 2 have decided to go HD. I have a few great demos, one from an outdoor wedding where HD really shines and one from a chatholic church that has great light. I do not push HD were lighting is less then optimal considering SD looks as good if not better in low light, in my opinion.

Jon

Peter Jefferson · April 5th, 2007, 11:27 AM

118 weddings... wow, thats a fair bit of work there.. good stuff..

as for your situation Pat, i think that during the edit, you shoud advise the cleint that a high definition option is availble.
Using the excitiement of the finished work itself will hype them up and make them WANT to upgrade.

Drop me an eamil pat and i'll send you a standard letter which i send to clietns who ask for this then dont follow through.. lol

Jon Omiatek · April 5th, 2007, 11:37 AM

Yes, 118 is too many.... LOL

I am only booking 20 weddings this year, I need a break. Combined the weddings with sports, corporate and misc = ONE BIG HEADACHE

Jon

Patrick Moreau · April 5th, 2007, 11:44 AM

Thanks Peter, I sent an email over to you.

The problem I am running into is with same day edits and HD. We use a firestore to edit the SDE quicker and so I need to edit the SDE in HD if the camera is recording in HD, which slows things down when there is already not enough time. To avoid this, I would need to shoot in SD so that the firestore records in SD and I can do a quicker edit. By doing that, the couple loses the option to do HD in the future.

I'm thinking of offering a $5-700 upgrade to have it shot and edited in HD which includes an HD DVD in the future. If they opt out of it, I will tell them that it will all be done in SD and the option won't be there letter, thereby making the SDE easier.

Anybody else out there with the same problem?

Travis Cossel · April 5th, 2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Omiatek

Yes, 118 is too many.... LOL

I am only booking 20 weddings this year, I need a break. Combined the weddings with sports, corporate and misc = ONE BIG HEADACHE

Jon

Seriously? You were averaging more than 2 weddings a week for the entire year??

Jon Omiatek · April 5th, 2007, 12:01 PM

Not to hijaack this thread but yes during the months of June through November we had more than 4 some weekends. During the months of January through June we had 1 or 2 per weekend.

Our prices were too low and everyone booked. Last year, for $1200 to $1400 you would get a 3 camera Ceremony and 2 Camera Reception depending on who shot the wedding. If the couple wanted a full day coverage, like Bridal Prep, Rehearsal and more the price was higher.

Jon

Travis Cossel · April 5th, 2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Omiatek

Not to hijaack this thread but yes during the months of June through November we had more than 4 some weekends. During the months of January through June we had 1 or 2 per weekend.

Our prices were too low and everyone booked. Last year, for $1200 to $1400 you would get a 3 camera Ceremony and 2 Camera Reception depending on who shot the wedding. If the couple wanted a full day coverage, like Bridal Prep, Rehearsal and more the price was higher.

Jon

Wow . . just wow . . . on the fact that you could actually shoot 4 weddings in a weekend . . . and on the fact that I charge the same for the same coverage and it's like pulling teeth to get brides here to book. Glad to hear you raised your prices. 118 weddings would simply kill me.

Okay, back on topic. Sorry guys!

Jon Omiatek · April 5th, 2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Moreau

The problem I am running into is with same day edits and HD. We use a firestore to edit the SDE quicker and so I need to edit the SDE in HD if the camera is recording in HD, which slows things down when there is already not enough time. To avoid this, I would need to shoot in SD so that the firestore records in SD and I can do a quicker edit. By doing that, the couple loses the option to do HD in the future.

What is included in your same day edit, how long is it? We offered same day edits last year in HD using firestores & DV Rack. Our same day edits included about a 5 to 10 minute highlight. Depending on the length, a same day edit is definately possible. Check this link for same day edit, Jason was shooting with FX1's and he had one of the best same day edits I have watched, period. For that matter its better than most wedding videos where the editors have weeks.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...light=day+edit

Dana Salsbury · April 5th, 2007, 12:55 PM

My goal is to offer HD packages that allow me to shoot more than one wedding in a weekend.

I recently performed a SDE for a friend, and pulled it off linear style. I would find great (tripod) shots, recording for five seconds or so on each shot. Then for the ceremony I followed everything with one camera & wireless mic. Then at the reception I SVideo'd the cam into my projector and played it. For the pre and post ceremony shots I used the PA for music. It was completely on the fly, but gave me the option of bypassing the computer altogether on the wedding day.

Now I am going to recreate what I played and burn the DVD. Since it was a freebee I took the risk, but I'm sold on the idea, and want to learn how to pull off the some thing using footage from two FX1s instead of one, so it's more of a production than a background video for the reception.

Patrick Moreau · April 5th, 2007, 01:08 PM

Thanks for the info Jon. I did see Jason's SDE before so I do know what is possible, just going over different options. Our SDEs are usually 6 min or under so it shouldn't be too bad with a firestore.

Is anybody shooting with HD cams and only delivering SD without giving the couple to upgrade or even mentioning it to them?

Dana Salsbury · April 5th, 2007, 01:26 PM

I don't do anything in SD. I don't want to confuse the client. I only want to put my best foot forward, and anything but widescreen HDV would not make me look as good. I'm also used to shooting widescreen since my transition last year and don't want to have to think about it.

Jon Omiatek · April 6th, 2007, 08:25 AM

Patrick..

We shot with FX1's and Z1's and deliver it in SD all of the time. No option for the client to go HD, even though it was shot in HD. If proper lighting is available the downconverted HD looks much better than SD. We shoot SD with pd170's.

Jon

Patrick Moreau · April 6th, 2007, 09:32 AM

Thanks Jon,

I think I will offer it to some and explain to everybody else that it will still look better in SD now that we are shooting with these cams. I sold all of our PDs and VX cams as the Canon Hd cams are native 16:9 in SD and there are so many other features that are quite the improvement. We will only be shooting with the Hd cams now.

Thanks again.

Travis Cossel · April 6th, 2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Omiatek

Patrick..

We shot with FX1's and Z1's and deliver it in SD all of the time. No option for the client to go HD, even though it was shot in HD. If proper lighting is available the downconverted HD looks much better than SD. We shoot SD with pd170's.

Jon

So do you shoot with PD170's if you know the ceremony or reception is going to be low light, and just not even mention HD to the bride?

April 5th, 2007, 08:52 AM	#1
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	What do you tell '07 clients about shooting HD? Okay, so we just grabbed three Canon XHA1s and an HV20 and are all set to film in HD. The thing is, when we did the upgrade we were almost fully booked for '07 under contracts that had no mention of HD. For those who can now shoot HD and have contracts pending for SD projects, how do you handle this? I am considering offering everybody an upgrade price so they can have their video re-released in HD when it is easier to deliver. If I do that, I could edit in HD and donconvert on export or try and edit in DV and then reimport in HDV down the road. Considering how busy we are, I was also thinking of not saying anything and just delivering SD and leaving it at that. My concern is that our website now mentions HD and our cameras clearly say it as well so it wouldn't be too unlikely that a current couple sees it somewhere and asks about HD later. Of course everthing will be shot in HD so it would be possible, but if it means re-editing anything it really wouldn't be worth the cost to have it done. So, how do you handle this? Please only respond if you can actually shoot HD now but have pending contracts for SD work. Patrick www.still-motion.ca

April 5th, 2007, 12:55 PM	#10
Dana Salsbury Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 859	SDE Linear Style My goal is to offer HD packages that allow me to shoot more than one wedding in a weekend. I recently performed a SDE for a friend, and pulled it off linear style. I would find great (tripod) shots, recording for five seconds or so on each shot. Then for the ceremony I followed everything with one camera & wireless mic. Then at the reception I SVideo'd the cam into my projector and played it. For the pre and post ceremony shots I used the PA for music. It was completely on the fly, but gave me the option of bypassing the computer altogether on the wedding day. Now I am going to recreate what I played and burn the DVD. Since it was a freebee I took the risk, but I'm sold on the idea, and want to learn how to pull off the some thing using footage from two FX1s instead of one, so it's more of a production than a background video for the reception. __________________ www.LegacyHDV.com Weddings \| Corporate \| HMC150s \| FCPX \| Encore \| Lion

April 5th, 2007, 01:26 PM	#12
Dana Salsbury Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 859	I don't do anything in SD. I don't want to confuse the client. I only want to put my best foot forward, and anything but widescreen HDV would not make me look as good. I'm also used to shooting widescreen since my transition last year and don't want to have to think about it. __________________ www.LegacyHDV.com Weddings \| Corporate \| HMC150s \| FCPX \| Encore \| Lion

April 5th, 2007, 10:25 AM	#2
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	I offer it to all of my clients but most do not care if it's shot in HD due to the extra cost. Last year out of 118 weddings, I had 21 people choose HD. Out of those 21 only about 1/2 paid extra, the other ten clients paid $100 extra. I wanted to push as many to HDV to test out the work flow. Since I have a significant amount of extra work with HD, I have decided not to give anymore discounts on HD. I now charge $500 upgrade to get HD on Blue ray disk, HDV Master tapes(NLE timeline printed to tape) and SD DVD's. Extra copies of Blue Ray DVD's are $50 each disk. I also give the option of Tvix. I have 15 clients this year and only 2 have decided to go HD. I have a few great demos, one from an outdoor wedding where HD really shines and one from a chatholic church that has great light. I do not push HD were lighting is less then optimal considering SD looks as good if not better in low light, in my opinion. Jon

April 5th, 2007, 11:27 AM	#3
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	118 weddings... wow, thats a fair bit of work there.. good stuff.. as for your situation Pat, i think that during the edit, you shoud advise the cleint that a high definition option is availble. Using the excitiement of the finished work itself will hype them up and make them WANT to upgrade. Drop me an eamil pat and i'll send you a standard letter which i send to clietns who ask for this then dont follow through.. lol

April 5th, 2007, 11:37 AM	#4
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	Yes, 118 is too many.... LOL I am only booking 20 weddings this year, I need a break. Combined the weddings with sports, corporate and misc = ONE BIG HEADACHE Jon

April 5th, 2007, 11:44 AM	#5
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Thanks Peter, I sent an email over to you. The problem I am running into is with same day edits and HD. We use a firestore to edit the SDE quicker and so I need to edit the SDE in HD if the camera is recording in HD, which slows things down when there is already not enough time. To avoid this, I would need to shoot in SD so that the firestore records in SD and I can do a quicker edit. By doing that, the couple loses the option to do HD in the future. I'm thinking of offering a $5-700 upgrade to have it shot and edited in HD which includes an HD DVD in the future. If they opt out of it, I will tell them that it will all be done in SD and the option won't be there letter, thereby making the SDE easier. Anybody else out there with the same problem?

April 5th, 2007, 12:01 PM	#7
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	Not to hijaack this thread but yes during the months of June through November we had more than 4 some weekends. During the months of January through June we had 1 or 2 per weekend. Our prices were too low and everyone booked. Last year, for $1200 to $1400 you would get a 3 camera Ceremony and 2 Camera Reception depending on who shot the wedding. If the couple wanted a full day coverage, like Bridal Prep, Rehearsal and more the price was higher. Jon

April 5th, 2007, 01:08 PM	#11
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Thanks for the info Jon. I did see Jason's SDE before so I do know what is possible, just going over different options. Our SDEs are usually 6 min or under so it shouldn't be too bad with a firestore. Is anybody shooting with HD cams and only delivering SD without giving the couple to upgrade or even mentioning it to them?

April 6th, 2007, 08:25 AM	#13
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	Patrick.. We shot with FX1's and Z1's and deliver it in SD all of the time. No option for the client to go HD, even though it was shot in HD. If proper lighting is available the downconverted HD looks much better than SD. We shoot SD with pd170's. Jon

April 6th, 2007, 09:32 AM	#14
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Thanks Jon, I think I will offer it to some and explain to everybody else that it will still look better in SD now that we are shooting with these cams. I sold all of our PDs and VX cams as the Canon Hd cams are native 16:9 in SD and there are so many other features that are quite the improvement. We will only be shooting with the Hd cams now. Thanks again.