What to ask a videographer.. saw afew of these.. what can u add?

Kevin Shaw · April 8th, 2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

... but heres the thing.. there are guys still shootiing with ENG cameras (such as the DSR350) which ALSO pump out 700 lines.

As I understand this, the claim that any DV camera has a resolution like that is pure marketing hyperbole, since the maximum possible recorded resolution of the DV format is 540 lines. Sure, you can have a lens and sensor capable of resolving more than that, but any such potential is lost once you've recorded that to tape. That's the beauty of HD: you can actually capture and deliver real resolution of 700-800 lines, something which is technically impossible with DV.

Peter Jefferson · April 8th, 2007, 12:14 PM

tell that to all the guys still shooting with high end sony ENG's from the 350, to the 570 to the 450.. its all DVCam though......

Andy Wason · April 8th, 2007, 02:50 PM

Here's my info

http://www.imaginenewmedia.com/about_us.html

Kevin Shaw · April 8th, 2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

tell that to all the guys still shooting with high end sony ENG's from the 350, to the 570 to the 450.. its all DVCam though......

Unless I'm missing something, DVCAM is just DV run at a different tape rate, and still has 720x480 pixels with maximum TV lines per height of 720/4 *3 = 540 lines. Anyone who believes DV or DVCAM can deliver more TVL resolution than that is therefore incorrect.

P.S. Part of the problem here is inconsistency in how resolution is being measured. The most neutral measurement is lines of resolution per picture height, which can't be more than 540 for DV or DVCAM in the NTSC format. Anything beyond that probably refers to total horizontal resolution, which logic suggests can't be more than 720 for DV or DVCAM -- but some manufacturers report values up to 800. In the Texas HD shootout, the resolution values stated appear to be lines per picture height, so the 700-800 lines mentioned exceeds the maximum value of 540 for DVCAM by a substantial amount.

Peter Jefferson · April 8th, 2007, 10:12 PM

Unless I'm missing something, DVCAM is just DV run at a different tape rate,

((Nope yoru not wrong, your on the money bro))

and still has 720x480 pixels with maximum TV lines per height of 720/4 *3 = 540 lines. Anyone who believes DV or DVCAM can deliver more TVL resolution than that is therefore incorrect.

((yah... true.. and theres no debate about that..and theres no debate about teh tape based elements here.. reason i said DVCam is because thats the format these guys shoot in, and they STILL believe its hitting 70 lines.. if they were pumpin out straight to a mixer or whatever and recrding as DV50 or uncompressed, then yeah, i'll give them their 700 lines, but theyre not, theyre only using tape.
and no, its virtualy no different from DV save for tape rate (which allows for tighter audio sync... however most newer cameras dotn have the issue of slipped audio)

Another thing to take note is the overscanning areas..some manufacturers, use this in their numbers to jack it up a lil as well..

Steven Davis · April 9th, 2007, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

" Do NOT under any circumstance book ANYONE until you see their work. be it online or through dvd demos, if u dont know what your paying for, you wotn knwo what your getting.
In addition, demos are jsut that. Demos. If you want a true representation of a sample of work, its bes tot ask to see ACTUAL work provided to clients. Theres no point seeing the best bits of the best bits in a demo when 90% of the presentation is crap (generally speaking... ).
Its like seeing 10 shots from a photographers work and making a decision on that .Bare in mind that these 10 golden shots may be mixed in with 2000 less than average shots taken on the day.. Video is no different in this regard. ))
Pete

This is probably one of my biggest pet peeves I see with other videographers. Sure, we all have demos online. But if you come to book with me, I'm going to show you actualy wedding products that match what your wedding event will be, church, I show you a church, outside, I show you an outside wedding etc etc. And what peeves me we as an industry have educated our clients to ask for a demo, and not an actual product. I'm sure when we go buy a car, we dont' ask for a car close to test drive, we ask for the actual one. Then for those who hire off of demos get thier product and it's not 'perfect.' So then they talk about thier let down with thier videographer, and it gives us a bad name.

Peter Jefferson · April 9th, 2007, 08:12 PM

i dont think its the "demo factor" alone.. i also believe that many are showing work shot and edited by other people (ie same company different shooters) and selling THAT product when in fact the sales consultant KNOWS that this shooter is
1) outsourced
2) may not be the one covering the day
3) may not be using the same techniques as shown in the demo

however, these companies continue to use this work as a means to attain clients, whether or not this is an accurate representation of sale, is a grey line as to me, it isnt.. but there is no way of proving this... in turn the client makes a misinformed decision in turn affecting the quality of teh product and the opinion of video services as a whole

April 8th, 2007, 12:14 PM	#17
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	tell that to all the guys still shooting with high end sony ENG's from the 350, to the 570 to the 450.. its all DVCam though......

April 8th, 2007, 02:50 PM	#18
Andy Wason Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ridgeway, Ontario Posts: 79	Here's my info http://www.imaginenewmedia.com/about_us.html

April 8th, 2007, 10:12 PM	#20
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Unless I'm missing something, DVCAM is just DV run at a different tape rate, ((Nope yoru not wrong, your on the money bro)) and still has 720x480 pixels with maximum TV lines per height of 720/4 *3 = 540 lines. Anyone who believes DV or DVCAM can deliver more TVL resolution than that is therefore incorrect. ((yah... true.. and theres no debate about that..and theres no debate about teh tape based elements here.. reason i said DVCam is because thats the format these guys shoot in, and they STILL believe its hitting 70 lines.. if they were pumpin out straight to a mixer or whatever and recrding as DV50 or uncompressed, then yeah, i'll give them their 700 lines, but theyre not, theyre only using tape. and no, its virtualy no different from DV save for tape rate (which allows for tighter audio sync... however most newer cameras dotn have the issue of slipped audio) Another thing to take note is the overscanning areas..some manufacturers, use this in their numbers to jack it up a lil as well..

April 9th, 2007, 08:12 PM	#22
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	i dont think its the "demo factor" alone.. i also believe that many are showing work shot and edited by other people (ie same company different shooters) and selling THAT product when in fact the sales consultant KNOWS that this shooter is 1) outsourced 2) may not be the one covering the day 3) may not be using the same techniques as shown in the demo however, these companies continue to use this work as a means to attain clients, whether or not this is an accurate representation of sale, is a grey line as to me, it isnt.. but there is no way of proving this... in turn the client makes a misinformed decision in turn affecting the quality of teh product and the opinion of video services as a whole