I thought I had the audio covered... at DVinfo.net

Dan Burnap · April 4th, 2007, 11:37 AM

I recently shot a wedding and captured the audio with RodeVM on cam1, onboard mic cam2, Iriver'ed Groom and Iriver line-in from the church PA for the music that was played.

During the ceremony the audio from the priest and church PA was quite echo'ey and both camera mics recorded horrible, booming, clipped audio. The groom's audio picked up his voice very well but with all the booming from the priest and church audio too. The only source which was OK was the music recorded line-in

I'm struggling to think of a way to obtain decent audio from this type of set-up. As any mic present (apart from the church line-in) is going to pick up all the auido too. I could have recorded the priest line-in I suppose but through his mic you'd hear the music playing too.

Any ideas?

Steven Davis · April 4th, 2007, 12:03 PM

Well, If your asking how to make the 'echoing' audio not echo. There may be tools that can do this, I don't know of any off hand. But one thing you can do, I've done this, is try and split the difference. I suspect the grooms audio has little reverb, well if you bring it down and at a little reverb, you might not notice the difference all that much.

Way back in the day, I posted almost your same question, someone suggested asking the b&g if they care if you add reverb to the mic. That's probably good advice.

Waldemar Winkler · April 4th, 2007, 05:45 PM

[QUOTE=Dan Burnap;653809]I recently shot a wedding and captured the audio with RodeVM on cam1, onboard mic cam2, Iriver'ed Groom and Iriver line-in from the church PA for the music that was played.

During the ceremony the audio from the priest and church PA was quite echo'ey and both camera mics recorded horrible, booming, clipped audio. The groom's audio picked up his voice very well but with all the booming from the priest and church audio too. The only source which was OK was the music recorded line-in [END QUOTE]

1st, in my opinion, you captured audio with on-board microphones when wired or wireless or stand alone mp3 would have done a much better job. I feel on-board mic audio is usually a waste of time if your goal was to capture primary audio. Most shooting situations allow flexibiiity regarding capture of both video and audio, and the decision "how to do it" is important. I prefer using on camera mics to capture secondary ambient audio. In so doing, I've managed to acquire some amazing audio clips that swell the primary line feed.

2nd, The church PA system (specifically, it's EQ) was improperly set. If the groom's iRiver picked up the boomy echo, you can be sure everyone in the sanctuary heard it as well. Most professionally installed PA systems have the EQ carefully set. Clearly, some enterprising soul with just enough audio knowledge to be dangerous tweaked the PA system in a very bad way. There isn't a whole lot one can do about that. However, had you the opportunity to do a real sound check (something one rarely gets in a church) you would have been able to identify the problem. Once identified, the PA's EQ could have been corrected or you could have switched the iRiver's mic to a directional lapel instead of an omni-directional mic. In this scenario, the directional lapel would have reduced the church's PA system problems effect on your recording, but not eliminated it. I suspect the clean LINE-IN feed from the church PA was directly from pre-recorded music and not the PA system's main RECORD OUT. It was not processed by the PA system. You got it directly from the source ...Tape, CD, etc.

[QUOTE] I'm struggling to think of a way to obtain decent audio from this type of set-up. As any mic present (apart from the church line-in) is going to pick up all the auido too. I could have recorded the priest line-in I suppose but through his mic you'd hear the music playing too.[END QUOTE]

Advise the senior administrator of the facility that the well-intentioned, but horribly uneducated alcolyte thoroughly messed the church's PA system which now needs to be reset by a professional audio technician. That is going to be expensive! Also advise that same senior administrator to advise the knowlegable-but-still-dangerous alcolyte to keep hands off the House PA EQ ... and throw in the pain of death, excommunication, or whatever the hell works!

Lastly, don't ever rely on house PA systems, unless you personally know the level of expertise of the "resident audio visual expert". Always use your own microphones. Provide a line feed from your microphones to the house PA. With control in your hands, you can turn off the feed to the House if it is behaving badly. Never, ever, use the house microphones!

Bob Harotunian · April 6th, 2007, 07:11 AM

The wedding audio solution for me was 2 UHF wireless mics, one at podium, the other on groom and it's all 100% controllable. They deliver crystal clear audio, are totally reliable, no sync issues in post and above all, I don't have to depend on anyone else's equipment. Camera 2 uses an on-board ME-64 and it does a great job of capturing ambient.
Bob

April 4th, 2007, 11:37 AM	#1
Dan Burnap Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro Posts: 335	I thought I had the audio covered... I recently shot a wedding and captured the audio with RodeVM on cam1, onboard mic cam2, Iriver'ed Groom and Iriver line-in from the church PA for the music that was played. During the ceremony the audio from the priest and church PA was quite echo'ey and both camera mics recorded horrible, booming, clipped audio. The groom's audio picked up his voice very well but with all the booming from the priest and church audio too. The only source which was OK was the music recorded line-in I'm struggling to think of a way to obtain decent audio from this type of set-up. As any mic present (apart from the church line-in) is going to pick up all the auido too. I could have recorded the priest line-in I suppose but through his mic you'd hear the music playing too. Any ideas?

April 4th, 2007, 12:03 PM	#2
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Well, If your asking how to make the 'echoing' audio not echo. There may be tools that can do this, I don't know of any off hand. But one thing you can do, I've done this, is try and split the difference. I suspect the grooms audio has little reverb, well if you bring it down and at a little reverb, you might not notice the difference all that much. Way back in the day, I posted almost your same question, someone suggested asking the b&g if they care if you add reverb to the mic. That's probably good advice. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

April 4th, 2007, 05:45 PM	#3
Waldemar Winkler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Durango, Colorado, USA Posts: 711	[QUOTE=Dan Burnap;653809]I recently shot a wedding and captured the audio with RodeVM on cam1, onboard mic cam2, Iriver'ed Groom and Iriver line-in from the church PA for the music that was played. During the ceremony the audio from the priest and church PA was quite echo'ey and both camera mics recorded horrible, booming, clipped audio. The groom's audio picked up his voice very well but with all the booming from the priest and church audio too. The only source which was OK was the music recorded line-in [END QUOTE] 1st, in my opinion, you captured audio with on-board microphones when wired or wireless or stand alone mp3 would have done a much better job. I feel on-board mic audio is usually a waste of time if your goal was to capture primary audio. Most shooting situations allow flexibiiity regarding capture of both video and audio, and the decision "how to do it" is important. I prefer using on camera mics to capture secondary ambient audio. In so doing, I've managed to acquire some amazing audio clips that swell the primary line feed. 2nd, The church PA system (specifically, it's EQ) was improperly set. If the groom's iRiver picked up the boomy echo, you can be sure everyone in the sanctuary heard it as well. Most professionally installed PA systems have the EQ carefully set. Clearly, some enterprising soul with just enough audio knowledge to be dangerous tweaked the PA system in a very bad way. There isn't a whole lot one can do about that. However, had you the opportunity to do a real sound check (something one rarely gets in a church) you would have been able to identify the problem. Once identified, the PA's EQ could have been corrected or you could have switched the iRiver's mic to a directional lapel instead of an omni-directional mic. In this scenario, the directional lapel would have reduced the church's PA system problems effect on your recording, but not eliminated it. I suspect the clean LINE-IN feed from the church PA was directly from pre-recorded music and not the PA system's main RECORD OUT. It was not processed by the PA system. You got it directly from the source ...Tape, CD, etc. [QUOTE] I'm struggling to think of a way to obtain decent audio from this type of set-up. As any mic present (apart from the church line-in) is going to pick up all the auido too. I could have recorded the priest line-in I suppose but through his mic you'd hear the music playing too.[END QUOTE] Advise the senior administrator of the facility that the well-intentioned, but horribly uneducated alcolyte thoroughly messed the church's PA system which now needs to be reset by a professional audio technician. That is going to be expensive! Also advise that same senior administrator to advise the knowlegable-but-still-dangerous alcolyte to keep hands off the House PA EQ ... and throw in the pain of death, excommunication, or whatever the hell works! Lastly, don't ever rely on house PA systems, unless you personally know the level of expertise of the "resident audio visual expert". Always use your own microphones. Provide a line feed from your microphones to the house PA. With control in your hands, you can turn off the feed to the House if it is behaving badly. Never, ever, use the house microphones! __________________ Waldemar

April 6th, 2007, 07:11 AM	#4
Bob Harotunian Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somerville, MA Posts: 360	The wedding audio solution for me was 2 UHF wireless mics, one at podium, the other on groom and it's all 100% controllable. They deliver crystal clear audio, are totally reliable, no sync issues in post and above all, I don't have to depend on anyone else's equipment. Camera 2 uses an on-board ME-64 and it does a great job of capturing ambient. Bob