Issues around offering wedding shoots as samples at DVinfo.net

Matthew Craggs · February 18th, 2007, 03:08 PM

Hey all,

First off, the standard "I tried to use the search and couldn't find anything" disclaimer applies. Though I am still relatively new here so if this has already been discussed, my sincere apologies.

I was just wondering how everyone deals with using your weddings jobs as samples or on a demo reel. When a couple approaches you regarding shooting their wedding, do you have a clause that says "The videographer has the right to use your wedding as a sample of his/her abilities when dealing with other potential clients?" Or do you offer a few bucks off if the couple allows you to do so? What about using the footage on a website? Is there any difference between showing potential clients your work in private versus posting clips on a website?

When I first got out of school I shot some stuff for free and in exchange required that I could use it for promo purposes. That was very black and white: I'm new, but I was doing it for free. Now that I'm charging for my services, I'm not too sure what to do. At the time being I am simply saying that I will give a small discount of about $100 if I am able to use the footage for promotional purposes.

How do you handle this situation?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Bryon Akerman · February 18th, 2007, 05:03 PM

Just put it in your contract that you can useit for your demo reel. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I've never heard of someone getting offended of someone using bits of their wedding for a demo.

Bryon <><

Peter Jefferson · February 18th, 2007, 05:06 PM

no, i dont think a discount is required to use a clients footage, unlike models, teh clients have already signed an agreed to a release so my use of the footage is at my discretion, BUT for nay public viewing (Seminars... i dont do shows) i would contat the client and advise that im using their raw footage for traning purposes (which is what im doing)

as for web based stuff, if its out in public and easily accessable, n the past, not one client had an issue, in fact, they were stoked (pleased) that we put their video online.

Waldemar Winkler · February 18th, 2007, 05:59 PM

I have always had a clause in my contract stating I have copyright to the original footage and the finished DVD, which includes the right to use any of the footage in the promotion of my business. This is one of many points I always make clear to clients before they sign. I've yet to have a client that has had an objection.

However, I have taken to clarifying this whole subject by specificically asking the wedding couple for permission to "feature" their wedding. By this I intend to advertise their names (probably not full names) as well, something I have never done. I note that the images of their wedding may well end up on several web sites that have the potential to benefit my business.

Because weddings are very personal events I feel it is extremely important to look for any issues that could upset the individuals involved regardless of the legal terms of a contract. There could be a potential issue with internet exposure which I feel should be respected, and the last thing I would want is to be compared to a paparazzi (sp?) opportunist.

Jack Smith · February 18th, 2007, 10:27 PM

Hi Matthew.Don't pay to use your shots in a demo.I have a contract I can show you.Just put it in the contract.

Patrick Moreau · February 19th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Hi Matthew,

I would agree with others in saying that you shouldn't have to offer discounts to use the footage. We include a couple sentences about this in bold right before the section where they are to sign and we have never had anybody have any problems with it. Be careful not to make your statement too restrictive- make sure it allows you to do anything you may possibly want to do in the future which may include selling it, entering it into contests, and for promotional purposes of course. Just be careful with the wording there.

Mark Goldberg · February 19th, 2007, 01:22 PM

I have always had a clause in the general terms of my contract which allows me to use the video as a work example and enter it into professional competitions.

I also have clauses which give me control of the copyright and authorization to edit it at my discretion.

I don't give discounts to anyone for any reason.

Now, if there is a client such as a celebrity who has a commercial interest in his or her image, I am willing to negotiate on the work example clause. But in a case like that I am probably being paid fairly well in compensation.

Steven Davis · February 19th, 2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Goldberg

Now, if there is a client such as a celebrity who has a commercial interest in his or her image, I am willing to negotiate on the work example clause. But in a case like that I am probably being paid fairly well in compensation.

So if Anna Nichol................. nevermind too late.

I too have a clause in my contract that allows me to use the various footage I do for demo purposes. You just have to be critical of what you use. I won't publicly display a video moment that I feel is too personal.

But more than just showing your work, the various evironments you shoot in can be educational; showing various lightings, camera angles etc. For instance, I was showing a prospective client a wedding we did, and they asked me why I didn't shoot the front angle of the bride coming down the isle. To which I responded, the minister would not allow us to do so. It was an educational moment and after booking the b&G, they were quick to tell me I will not have any camera placement issues.

Matthew Craggs · February 19th, 2007, 08:31 PM

Thank you all for your replies. Your experiences have confirmed my initial thoughts about the subject. It's good to know that a bride and groom reacting badly to the clause is not a common problem.

Peter Jefferson · February 19th, 2007, 08:53 PM

Heres somethign to help u along..

(XYZ is your company name)
Dont copy it word for word, but it gives u an idea anyway..
this is what i have in my contract

A copy of the finished Production and Associated Material is retained by XYZ at no charge to the Client. This material may be in MiniDV, DVCam, DVCPro/HD, HDV, AC3, DVD-r, VHS, DVD, SVCD, VCD, MPG1/2, or AVI, JPEG, Bitmapped or whatever formats any future technology avails.
At the discretion of XYZ, this content may also be used as promotional and demonstrative material.
XYZ will attempt to seek Permission to do as such before hand and will respect their Clients wishes, when possible, with regard to Privacy and/or Confidentiality.
All Filming Styles, Editing Techniques, Artwork designs and layout, Photography, Storyboards, and Music Produced by XYZ remain the property of XYZ Digital Video and Multimedia Productions. Copyright 1993 to 2007.

Steven Davis · February 19th, 2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

Heres somethign to help u along..

(XYZ is your company name)
Dont copy it word for word, but it gives u an idea anyway..
this is what i have in my contract

A copy of the finished Production and Associated Material is retained by XYZ at no charge to the Client. This material may be in MiniDV, DVCam, DVCPro/HD, HDV, AC3, DVD-r, VHS, DVD, SVCD, VCD, MPG1/2, or AVI, JPEG, Bitmapped or whatever formats any future technology avails.
At the discretion of XYZ, this content may also be used as promotional and demonstrative material.
XYZ will attempt to seek Permission to do as such before hand and will respect their Clients wishes, when possible, with regard to Privacy and/or Confidentiality.
All Filming Styles, Editing Techniques, Artwork designs and layout, Photography, Storyboards, and Music Produced by XYZ remain the property of XYZ Digital Video and Multimedia Productions. Copyright 1993 to 2007.

That's it, I'm changing my name to XYZ. Drat. XYZ.com is taken.

Peter Jefferson · February 19th, 2007, 11:58 PM

lol nutball!

Sean Johnson · April 4th, 2007, 12:16 PM

I haven't actually filmed my first wedding yet but I have one contracted for May 6. I let the couple know that i'm gonna give them the whole package for $200 since it's my first job and i made it clear that the low price was to allow me to use the their as part of my demo reel.

When I sent them a contract to look at them sent me back some changes. They didn't want their names, date, location and those type things to be included in the samples. After explaining the situation again with the intention of dropping the wedding altogether, they quickly agreed to let me us all the footage.

Plus when we first met they and 2 other couples (all together) grilled me with questions for an hour. I think all the couples are friends. One of the couples is gonna have their wedding in Sept. and want to wait until they see the May 6 couples video first. I heard this plan from the May 6 couple. I couldn't stop laughing on the inside, yet I was also very annoyed. I guess $200 is too much to ask without an actual wedding sample. I had showed them other party edits that they were very impressed with. I showed them my B.A. degree in Computer Video Imaging. I'll will be sad for the couple with the wedding in Sept. I guess i'll have to become booked for that month. ooops

This is gonna be a tough business, which i'm sure you guys are well knowledged of.

Travis Cossel · April 4th, 2007, 05:00 PM

Honestly, and please don't take this personally, if a couple cares so little about their wedding video that they're willing to pay a first-timer only $200 to do it, then it would really piss me off if they were fighting with me over using it as a promo.

For me, I just have a clause in my contract (very last bullet point in fact) that states I can use ANY of the footage for ANY type of marketing purposes. I haven't ever had a couple complain, but maybe I've just been lucky.

Steven Davis · April 4th, 2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

For me, I just have a clause in my contract (very last bullet point in fact) that states I can use ANY of the footage for ANY type of marketing purposes. I haven't ever had a couple complain, but maybe I've just been lucky.

It's my first. Point is, something really funky is going on with your client if they, well, like Travis said. Some clients can't afford much, if so, then they should not be as choosy. This is a great business, but one thing you learn quickly is that you have to fashion your standards for your business and don't stray from them without compensation.

February 18th, 2007, 03:08 PM	#1
Matthew Craggs Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Welland, Ontario Posts: 311	Issues around offering wedding shoots as samples Hey all, First off, the standard "I tried to use the search and couldn't find anything" disclaimer applies. Though I am still relatively new here so if this has already been discussed, my sincere apologies. I was just wondering how everyone deals with using your weddings jobs as samples or on a demo reel. When a couple approaches you regarding shooting their wedding, do you have a clause that says "The videographer has the right to use your wedding as a sample of his/her abilities when dealing with other potential clients?" Or do you offer a few bucks off if the couple allows you to do so? What about using the footage on a website? Is there any difference between showing potential clients your work in private versus posting clips on a website? When I first got out of school I shot some stuff for free and in exchange required that I could use it for promo purposes. That was very black and white: I'm new, but I was doing it for free. Now that I'm charging for my services, I'm not too sure what to do. At the time being I am simply saying that I will give a small discount of about $100 if I am able to use the footage for promotional purposes. How do you handle this situation? Any insight would be appreciated.

February 18th, 2007, 05:03 PM	#2
Bryon Akerman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 175	Just put it in your contract that you can useit for your demo reel. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I've never heard of someone getting offended of someone using bits of their wedding for a demo. Bryon <>< __________________ Commandment #11- "Thou shalt Render as thou goest." "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" (Prov. 1:7)

February 18th, 2007, 05:59 PM	#4
Waldemar Winkler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Durango, Colorado, USA Posts: 711	I have always had a clause in my contract stating I have copyright to the original footage and the finished DVD, which includes the right to use any of the footage in the promotion of my business. This is one of many points I always make clear to clients before they sign. I've yet to have a client that has had an objection. However, I have taken to clarifying this whole subject by specificically asking the wedding couple for permission to "feature" their wedding. By this I intend to advertise their names (probably not full names) as well, something I have never done. I note that the images of their wedding may well end up on several web sites that have the potential to benefit my business. Because weddings are very personal events I feel it is extremely important to look for any issues that could upset the individuals involved regardless of the legal terms of a contract. There could be a potential issue with internet exposure which I feel should be respected, and the last thing I would want is to be compared to a paparazzi (sp?) opportunist. __________________ Waldemar

April 4th, 2007, 05:00 PM	#14
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	Honestly, and please don't take this personally, if a couple cares so little about their wedding video that they're willing to pay a first-timer only $200 to do it, then it would really piss me off if they were fighting with me over using it as a promo. For me, I just have a clause in my contract (very last bullet point in fact) that states I can use ANY of the footage for ANY type of marketing purposes. I haven't ever had a couple complain, but maybe I've just been lucky. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

February 18th, 2007, 05:06 PM	#3
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	no, i dont think a discount is required to use a clients footage, unlike models, teh clients have already signed an agreed to a release so my use of the footage is at my discretion, BUT for nay public viewing (Seminars... i dont do shows) i would contat the client and advise that im using their raw footage for traning purposes (which is what im doing) as for web based stuff, if its out in public and easily accessable, n the past, not one client had an issue, in fact, they were stoked (pleased) that we put their video online.

February 18th, 2007, 10:27 PM	#5
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	Hi Matthew.Don't pay to use your shots in a demo.I have a contract I can show you.Just put it in the contract.

February 19th, 2007, 08:00 AM	#6
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Hi Matthew, I would agree with others in saying that you shouldn't have to offer discounts to use the footage. We include a couple sentences about this in bold right before the section where they are to sign and we have never had anybody have any problems with it. Be careful not to make your statement too restrictive- make sure it allows you to do anything you may possibly want to do in the future which may include selling it, entering it into contests, and for promotional purposes of course. Just be careful with the wording there.

February 19th, 2007, 01:22 PM	#7
Mark Goldberg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Annapolis, Maryland Posts: 101	I have always had a clause in the general terms of my contract which allows me to use the video as a work example and enter it into professional competitions. I also have clauses which give me control of the copyright and authorization to edit it at my discretion. I don't give discounts to anyone for any reason. Now, if there is a client such as a celebrity who has a commercial interest in his or her image, I am willing to negotiate on the work example clause. But in a case like that I am probably being paid fairly well in compensation.

February 19th, 2007, 08:31 PM	#9
Matthew Craggs Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Welland, Ontario Posts: 311	Thank you all for your replies. Your experiences have confirmed my initial thoughts about the subject. It's good to know that a bride and groom reacting badly to the clause is not a common problem.

February 19th, 2007, 08:53 PM	#10
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Heres somethign to help u along.. (XYZ is your company name) Dont copy it word for word, but it gives u an idea anyway.. this is what i have in my contract A copy of the finished Production and Associated Material is retained by XYZ at no charge to the Client. This material may be in MiniDV, DVCam, DVCPro/HD, HDV, AC3, DVD-r, VHS, DVD, SVCD, VCD, MPG1/2, or AVI, JPEG, Bitmapped or whatever formats any future technology avails. At the discretion of XYZ, this content may also be used as promotional and demonstrative material. XYZ will attempt to seek Permission to do as such before hand and will respect their Clients wishes, when possible, with regard to Privacy and/or Confidentiality. All Filming Styles, Editing Techniques, Artwork designs and layout, Photography, Storyboards, and Music Produced by XYZ remain the property of XYZ Digital Video and Multimedia Productions. Copyright 1993 to 2007.

February 19th, 2007, 11:58 PM	#12
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	lol nutball!

April 4th, 2007, 12:16 PM	#13
Sean Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 94	I haven't actually filmed my first wedding yet but I have one contracted for May 6. I let the couple know that i'm gonna give them the whole package for $200 since it's my first job and i made it clear that the low price was to allow me to use the their as part of my demo reel. When I sent them a contract to look at them sent me back some changes. They didn't want their names, date, location and those type things to be included in the samples. After explaining the situation again with the intention of dropping the wedding altogether, they quickly agreed to let me us all the footage. Plus when we first met they and 2 other couples (all together) grilled me with questions for an hour. I think all the couples are friends. One of the couples is gonna have their wedding in Sept. and want to wait until they see the May 6 couples video first. I heard this plan from the May 6 couple. I couldn't stop laughing on the inside, yet I was also very annoyed. I guess $200 is too much to ask without an actual wedding sample. I had showed them other party edits that they were very impressed with. I showed them my B.A. degree in Computer Video Imaging. I'll will be sad for the couple with the wedding in Sept. I guess i'll have to become booked for that month. ooops This is gonna be a tough business, which i'm sure you guys are well knowledged of.