Recruiting: a local media student! at DVinfo.net

Richard Wakefield · February 16th, 2007, 04:15 AM

Hi,

I've got a vague idea of approaching a local media college (we have a few), and asking students from the video/edit courses if anyone would like paid work experience to help me out as a 2nd camera operator for the busy wedding period this summer.

1. has anyone else done this? any advice/experience? reliability?
2. any idea what is reasonable payment? e.g. £50/day? hourly rate?

I've got the feeling that for a saturday job, I should at least grab one student's attention on this! They will be eager to earn money, and have some valuable real-life experience for their CVs!

cheers

Peter Jefferson · February 16th, 2007, 04:39 AM

1. has anyone else done this? any advice/experience? reliability?
((Yes... advice.. dont do it.. reliability? Non existant.. ))

2. any idea what is reasonable payment? e.g. £50/day? hourly rate?

((LOL... dude, i was paying students $250 a day.. using my gear.. no more than 10hr shift and all they did was lug my gear and stand on a tripod and literally point and shoot.. and they still werent happy... also when u consider photogrpahers pay 20bux an hour for a shooter, thats is REALLY low compared to what video earn.. its funny, considering that photographers usually charge more than video(charge teh clietn i mean), photog daily/hourly rates are MUCH lower than videographers.. whether it be with their own gear or my own.. ))

I've got the feeling that for a saturday job, I should at least grab one student's attention on this!

((Oh youll get thie attention, as for keeping it.. well.. to be honest, i dont think its a goer UNLESS theyre REALLY interested... ))

They will be eager to earn money, and have some valuable real-life experience for their CVs!

((Well 50pounds a day.... i really doubt.. especially considering the lack of breaks and the "boredom" factor. Also i have found MANY student feel that theyre "skill" and "expereince" is too good for weddings... when in fact they have no idea and in teh real world, outside of a controled environment, theyr elost puppies. But instead of trying to learn about run and gun shooting, theyd rather stick to what tehy know. Also i have found many of them have a tainted view on teh industry simply becuase of who.how theyve been taught.
Believe it or not, weding videography and tv commercials are what has kept the industry alive..

For weddings, you need to find someone with patience, empathy and an understanding of human events. Most students are so high in the sky with regard to the "art" of what we do, that they forget about the bread and butter elements... without the bread and butter, the art doesnt exist....

bitter? No.. realistic, yes..
Dont expect miracles..

If u want to hire someone, i recomend you get in touch with several videographers in your area and ask if theyre intereted in shooting for you.
At least this way you know that they will know what theyre doing and u dont have to waste time..

Richard Wakefield · February 16th, 2007, 05:28 AM

thanks Peter...i was half expecting a reply like that...a reality check on students!

well i'll either give it a go just to see if i somehow get very lucky with a hard-working, genuinly enthusiastic student, OR like u say, find a local videographer (but then I think I'll have to pay alot more...damn!)

cheers

Jim Michael · February 16th, 2007, 06:08 AM

Several years ago I worked for a wedding photography studio that did a lot of volume. They had several students on staff as photographers. A couple were quite good and in high demand. Instead of asking the students you might start with one of the profs at the school and ask if they can suggest someone who is talented and highly motivated that would be interested in gettting some real world experience as an intern.

Ben Lynn · February 16th, 2007, 08:12 AM

I think that's a great suggestion to speak with the prof. first. Are there some bad helpers out there? Sure. Every group has them and it sounds like Peter has come across more than a few. But there's also some good hard working students out there who can really help fill your need. The hard part is finding the person who fits with what you want. Once you find someone who's really interested in what your doing you'll have a great assistant.

I've worked with some bad students and some good students and in the end it's worth the effort to find the good ones. Don't expect them to know everything the first time out, look for how fast they learn and their overall progress. Everyone will make a mistake, but how many make the same mistake time and again? You want the ones who don't repeat their mistakes. They'll be the fast learners and able to accomplish what you want.

I've also found that if their interested in the work then they'll be reliable. Remember, they're young adults and just learning to be responsible so don't put critical, can't live without, responsability on them and you'll do ok. I think that's just good management: knowing what your workers can and can't do.

I hope it works out for you.

Ben

Waldemar Winkler · February 16th, 2007, 08:00 PM

I'm thinking of doing the same thing. Sadly, I've only got two colleges.

My plan is to do three things:

Contact faculty for permission to post my advertisement and suggestions on possible bright students.

Ask for a demo reel.

Interview and possible trial test shoot.

Make best decision possible.

Still working on the idea.

Andrew Ott · March 17th, 2007, 11:36 AM

I'm sort of the kids' angle on this. I e-mailed a bunch of wedding videographers in the Austin area seeing if I could help them (I'm almost 16). From the responses I received back they all wanted to what my hourly rate is. What should I request? I'd be bringing my Canon XHA1 and my own tripod and fig rig if they wanted it.

John DeLuca · March 17th, 2007, 01:45 PM

Actually..... Peter Jefferson is so right its not even funny. Especially the part about students getting paid around $250 a day and not being satisfied.

Denis Danatzko · March 17th, 2007, 08:47 PM

(I don't know if academic credits can be earned in the UK the same as here in the US, so this idea hinges on how that works in the UK).

Rather than hire a student, approach one or more profs at the college to see if they might recommend a student who might be interested in working with you as an independent study course rather than a job. If you can get the prof to agree that YOU would contribute to the grade the student would receive, then the student would have more incentive to do a good job for you and stick with it longer.

Rather than "paying" the student full rate for the time, pay a lower amount and reimburse him/her for the tuition charge of the independent study course once the "course" is over. The student might show interest for a longer period of time, would be "bound" by the need to do a good job to "pass the course"/earn the credits, and you might end up shelling out less money.

It may not be perfect, but it's an alternative.

Peter Jefferson · March 17th, 2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldemar Winkler

I'm thinking of doing the same thing. Sadly, I've only got two colleges.

My plan is to do three things:

Contact faculty for permission to post my advertisement and suggestions on possible bright students.

Ask for a demo reel.

Interview and possible trial test shoot.

Make best decision possible.

Still working on the idea.

Wal, your idea is a good one, but i should let u in on afew things.. the ad might get one or 7 lookers and of that maybe 2 will be keen enough to take it further, and maybe one will really be interested.. KEEPING that interest is the issue.. no matter how artsy the work can be.. and no matter what freedom the editor has (lets face it for weddings, we have ALOT of freedom compared to comercial work... )
As for suggestions, more than likely Profs, wont want their best students to deviate from their current studies.. putting more load onto these high end students may be detrimental to their stance within the university or even their grades..

Demo reels wont show you much.. i saw abotu a dozen reels of edits and raw shoots and fair enough they were ok, but when i took them out on the field, the students had no idea and didnt like the idea of being given direction by a lowly videographer.. if i had PhD or BA at the end of my name, maybe their attitude would be different, but it seems teh "High and Mighty" attitude of young arrogance is quite rampant in this industry..
Im not THAT old. hell im 31.. lol but when were talking abotu early 20's students with big dreams, weddings are like a deflated balloon..

The best thing to do is to take them on a job with you and show them the ropes explainin what you expect of them as your day goes on.
On the first day dont ask for much, but on the second, subtle and short direction will be required to be followed through, else you have the potential of having more problems than what theyre worth.. believe me..

About 2 years ago, I hiired 2 students who had their nice big DSR300.. saw a showreel (which turned out to NOT be their own.. found that out after the fact though..
THey came back to me after the first job and the footage was atrocious.. they had no idea how ot use their gear, let alone have the attitude of wanting to learn about my gear...
Then i doublebooked a job and offered them the shoot... they took it.. turns out he was abotu 10 minutels ate for the ceremony becuase he took a wrong turn then couldnt find parking.. ...
Now this was even after i bought him along to the itinirary meeting.. and scheduled at least a half hour headstart before every major event.. so even if he was a bit late.. he still ahd half an hour to kill.. but no.. he was late..
In turn, i had to offer tehse clients to optin of using thier friends footage on their presentations.. so tehy sent me 4 different home videos of teh same bloody thing..
Now im stuck in trying to colour match and make it all look right simply because a shooter wasnt responsible enough to take action as required at the times where he was directed..

Its for this reason i now only hire professionals, and i only do it by contract.. if they stuff up, they dont get paid.

If theyre newbies, they at least now come on to 2 jobs before i let them shoot alone..

Until you see them work and you see their demeaner and their decision making skills are put to the test with regadt o composition and people skills, then i woudlnt hire anyone..
Interviewsa re good, and explainign what your looking for helps, but nothign beats gettin gtheir hands dirty and seeing for yourself as to what theyre capabilites may be..
A good student may not be the best around a crowd. An arty shooter, may not know how to get these types of shots outside of a coontrolled environment..

its these variables which can either make it or break it..

February 16th, 2007, 04:15 AM	#1
Richard Wakefield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Surrey, UK Posts: 680	Recruiting: a local media student! Hi, I've got a vague idea of approaching a local media college (we have a few), and asking students from the video/edit courses if anyone would like paid work experience to help me out as a 2nd camera operator for the busy wedding period this summer. 1. has anyone else done this? any advice/experience? reliability? 2. any idea what is reasonable payment? e.g. £50/day? hourly rate? I've got the feeling that for a saturday job, I should at least grab one student's attention on this! They will be eager to earn money, and have some valuable real-life experience for their CVs! cheers

February 16th, 2007, 08:00 PM	#6
Waldemar Winkler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Durango, Colorado, USA Posts: 711	I'm thinking of doing the same thing. Sadly, I've only got two colleges. My plan is to do three things: Contact faculty for permission to post my advertisement and suggestions on possible bright students. Ask for a demo reel. Interview and possible trial test shoot. Make best decision possible. Still working on the idea. __________________ Waldemar

March 17th, 2007, 08:47 PM	#9
Denis Danatzko Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NYC Metro area Posts: 579	Richard, here's an idea to consider... (I don't know if academic credits can be earned in the UK the same as here in the US, so this idea hinges on how that works in the UK). Rather than hire a student, approach one or more profs at the college to see if they might recommend a student who might be interested in working with you as an independent study course rather than a job. If you can get the prof to agree that YOU would contribute to the grade the student would receive, then the student would have more incentive to do a good job for you and stick with it longer. Rather than "paying" the student full rate for the time, pay a lower amount and reimburse him/her for the tuition charge of the independent study course once the "course" is over. The student might show interest for a longer period of time, would be "bound" by the need to do a good job to "pass the course"/earn the credits, and you might end up shelling out less money. It may not be perfect, but it's an alternative. __________________ Denis ------------ Our actions are based on our own experience and knowledge. Thus, no one is ever totally right, nor totally wrong. We simply act from what we "know" to be true, based on that experience and knowledge. Beyond that, we pose questions to others.

February 16th, 2007, 04:39 AM	#2
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	1. has anyone else done this? any advice/experience? reliability? ((Yes... advice.. dont do it.. reliability? Non existant.. )) 2. any idea what is reasonable payment? e.g. £50/day? hourly rate? ((LOL... dude, i was paying students $250 a day.. using my gear.. no more than 10hr shift and all they did was lug my gear and stand on a tripod and literally point and shoot.. and they still werent happy... also when u consider photogrpahers pay 20bux an hour for a shooter, thats is REALLY low compared to what video earn.. its funny, considering that photographers usually charge more than video(charge teh clietn i mean), photog daily/hourly rates are MUCH lower than videographers.. whether it be with their own gear or my own.. )) I've got the feeling that for a saturday job, I should at least grab one student's attention on this! ((Oh youll get thie attention, as for keeping it.. well.. to be honest, i dont think its a goer UNLESS theyre REALLY interested... )) They will be eager to earn money, and have some valuable real-life experience for their CVs! ((Well 50pounds a day.... i really doubt.. especially considering the lack of breaks and the "boredom" factor. Also i have found MANY student feel that theyre "skill" and "expereince" is too good for weddings... when in fact they have no idea and in teh real world, outside of a controled environment, theyr elost puppies. But instead of trying to learn about run and gun shooting, theyd rather stick to what tehy know. Also i have found many of them have a tainted view on teh industry simply becuase of who.how theyve been taught. Believe it or not, weding videography and tv commercials are what has kept the industry alive.. For weddings, you need to find someone with patience, empathy and an understanding of human events. Most students are so high in the sky with regard to the "art" of what we do, that they forget about the bread and butter elements... without the bread and butter, the art doesnt exist.... bitter? No.. realistic, yes.. Dont expect miracles.. If u want to hire someone, i recomend you get in touch with several videographers in your area and ask if theyre intereted in shooting for you. At least this way you know that they will know what theyre doing and u dont have to waste time..

February 16th, 2007, 05:28 AM	#3
Richard Wakefield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Surrey, UK Posts: 680	thanks Peter...i was half expecting a reply like that...a reality check on students! well i'll either give it a go just to see if i somehow get very lucky with a hard-working, genuinly enthusiastic student, OR like u say, find a local videographer (but then I think I'll have to pay alot more...damn!) cheers

February 16th, 2007, 06:08 AM	#4
Jim Michael Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 895	Several years ago I worked for a wedding photography studio that did a lot of volume. They had several students on staff as photographers. A couple were quite good and in high demand. Instead of asking the students you might start with one of the profs at the school and ask if they can suggest someone who is talented and highly motivated that would be interested in gettting some real world experience as an intern.

February 16th, 2007, 08:12 AM	#5
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	I think that's a great suggestion to speak with the prof. first. Are there some bad helpers out there? Sure. Every group has them and it sounds like Peter has come across more than a few. But there's also some good hard working students out there who can really help fill your need. The hard part is finding the person who fits with what you want. Once you find someone who's really interested in what your doing you'll have a great assistant. I've worked with some bad students and some good students and in the end it's worth the effort to find the good ones. Don't expect them to know everything the first time out, look for how fast they learn and their overall progress. Everyone will make a mistake, but how many make the same mistake time and again? You want the ones who don't repeat their mistakes. They'll be the fast learners and able to accomplish what you want. I've also found that if their interested in the work then they'll be reliable. Remember, they're young adults and just learning to be responsible so don't put critical, can't live without, responsability on them and you'll do ok. I think that's just good management: knowing what your workers can and can't do. I hope it works out for you. Ben

March 17th, 2007, 11:36 AM	#7
Andrew Ott Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 62	I'm sort of the kids' angle on this. I e-mailed a bunch of wedding videographers in the Austin area seeing if I could help them (I'm almost 16). From the responses I received back they all wanted to what my hourly rate is. What should I request? I'd be bringing my Canon XHA1 and my own tripod and fig rig if they wanted it.

March 17th, 2007, 01:45 PM	#8
John DeLuca Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 496	Actually..... Peter Jefferson is so right its not even funny. Especially the part about students getting paid around $250 a day and not being satisfied.