Progressive PAL

[Bankim Jain]

Has any used a Progressive look 25p (in PAL arena) for weddings. I am bit confused as I intend to purchase a progressive camcorder for my weddings work.

Any idea views or videos will surely help the confused soul.

[Peter Jefferson]

i only shoot progressive with DVX100's

what do u wanna know?

there are tonens of threads out there discussing Progressive, and a furhter tonne discussing events.. cuple the two together ;)

if u ahve specifc questions, feel free to ask.. there are many who can help

[Bankim Jain]

I wish to know.

1. How does the progressive look ... actually LOOK on the TV screen for say a wedding coverage, where there might be lot of movement say dances etc, how does the progression work out... jittery.

2. What if i shoot 25p in HDV mode then use its composite output on to my DV based NLE for edits & then later SD-DVD for my clients, how far is it feesable.

I dont own a HDv system so i am like a kite w/o string flying up high ion the sky.

:)

[Peter Jefferson]

How does the progressive look ... actually LOOK on the TV screen for say a wedding coverage, where there might be lot of movement say dances etc, how does the progression work out... jittery

((No the motion is dependant on the shutter speed.. typically for PAL, youd be runnign 1/50th.. u can get away with slower speeds for motion blur effects, or slower speeds for speeches.. anything faster will only look jittery if u pan at the wrong speed, the action on screen will still look ok, but will lose all balance if your stability sucks.. ))

2. What if i shoot 25p in HDV mode then use its composite output on to my DV based NLE for edits & then later SD-DVD for my clients, how far is it feesable.

((Its not. it defeats the purpose of HDV.. best to capture as either downcovnerted SD, or capture as HDV, tehn downconvert in post.. both are feasable.. Composite output should only be used for previewing or playback.. not for critical edit work))

[Bankim Jain]

Thx for your valuable views.

I hear the HDV200 does 50p will this be more smooth & still have HDV quality. I do Wedding & events & would like to get Quality with smooth movements on pans movements. the HD200 apeals to me more so for this reason. Also i & my cameramen would like to go for sich lighter units as against the DSR450s we use currently.

CONFUSED !!!!

[Peter Jefferson]

I hear the HDV200 does 50p
((yes.. ful frame 50p, 48p, etc etc etc and a myriad of others as the camera allows for "film like' cranking of the frame cycle


will this be more smooth & still have HDV quality.

((Quality is relative to the user, however teh codec within DVCPRoHD vs HDV an be argues till the cows com ehome. IMO, DVCProHD@100mbps poos on HDV however the sacrifice you make is a tapeless recording workflow which DOESNT work for weddings... ive tried... to many hassles and P2 transfer to PC takes too long for run and gun.. and thats with 2x 8gb cards...

I do Wedding & events & would like to get Quality with smooth movements on pans movements. the HD200 apeals to me more so for this reason.

((Agreed.. it too however offers overcranking, however yoru NLE must support it. It is HDV and theres nothign wrong with HDV, its jsut not DVCPRoHD.. thing with the HVX though, is that what u lose from sharpenss, you gain from wider dynamic range, compactness, low light performance and of corse the codec itself))

Also i & my cameramen would like to go for sich lighter units as against the DSR450s we use currently.

((Higher than a 450...? Sony F330 or F350 if u really want to go higher (ie HD).. that would be my choice with the NLE i use (Vegas) IMO its the perfect system If u wnat to stick with SD, DSr500's are going cheap or u can go up to a 570... dont forget, tehse are all still running at 25mbps... as is HDV.. the only units which arent recording at this bitrate is the HVX and the F330/350

CONFUSED !!!!

[Bankim Jain]

I wish if someone could possibly upload a 50p footage out of a HDV200 (JVC) for me. like swish pans & few fast movements on screen & camera... it shall help me analize more on its utility for my event shoot work

[Peter Jefferson]

u cannot deliver 50p to clients...50p is a shooting mode not a delivery format

i noticed ur in the US, so i wouldnt bother with PAL anyway, stick with NTSC 24p

[Bankim Jain]

Nope actually I am not catering mostly to the Europian & Asian weddings so PAL is the need for the hour.

yes 50p isint the delievery format as long as i dont get a HD delievery formatte. Till then I wish to shoot 50p edit in HDV then downconvert the same to SD for DVD distri...

But my sole concern is tghe smoothness I might be able to achieve from a 50p shoot. Would you be having a 50p shoot with few swish pans & dances etc movemenmts for me to have a first hand feel of how would 50p look feel etc...

Thx

BJ

[Peter Jefferson]

Nope actually I am not catering mostly to the Europian & Asian weddings so PAL is the need for the hour.

((huh?? I dont get you.. Euro is Pal... SE asia is also Pal, north asia is predomaintely NTSC <Jap> I dont get ya... ))

yes 50p isint the delievery format as long as i dont get a HD delievery formatte. Till then I wish to shoot 50p edit in HDV then downconvert the same to SD for DVD distri...

((This wont make a difference then. I dont see any reason why anyone would want to shoot in 50p unless theyre planning on shooting full frame slowmotion... ))

But my sole concern is tghe smoothness I might be able to achieve from a 50p shoot. ((umm... no... the smoothness will be as smooth as YOU make it based on your camera skills.. ))

Would you be having a 50p shoot with few swish pans & dances etc movemenmts for me to have a first hand feel of how would 50p look feel etc...
((No, coz i shoot 25p with 2:2 pulldown, which si the standard progressive scan pullldown service for PAL. What i have isnt anything special, as u really dont need anythign special to get a decent look within your film.

If you have concerns about your own confidence in your work and camera stability, there are many training options available to you. I know you wnat teh super smooth video look, but put it this way.. i shoot events from Supercars through to Hot Rods and "hot laps" where the General public go out in ferraris etc etc through to fashiopn shows and concerts through to weddings.. I am yet to have an issue with motion using 25p or 50i

[Andy Wason]

I 'think' Bankim's original post was maybe to do with progressive scan 'film look' type shooting, and his fear of 'jittery' or strobing footage.

Is anybody shooting 24F 24P or 25P?

Does it look 'strobey' on pans or moving subjects?

how is it for dancing, speeches etc.?

What precautions do you take when shooting in this mode?
Wht shutter speed do you use?

I'm tempted to try it on my new A1 but don't want to risk someones wedding!

Andy

[Bankim Jain]

Hi ANDY thx for lending me a helping hand. Yes , i wish to know if shoot -

25p or 50p then how about dance sequences, fast pans etc
or
PAL DV shoot ..

Hope to see some good work before I buy the same

[Peter Jefferson]

Is anybody shooting 24F 24P or 25P?

((Yes 25p always...))

Does it look 'strobey' on pans or moving subjects?

((not if you do it oroerly and ue 1/50 shutter. Running a faster shutter offers more detail, les light, and can be strobey if your panning too fast, however if u use a slower shutter that pan may look blurry))

how is it for dancing, speeches etc.?
((its fine))

What precautions do you take when shooting in this mode?
((make sure ther is suffifcelt light and dont use gain above 9+ as progressive inherntly requires more light (due to the full active ccd you see.. ))

Wht shutter speed do you use?
((for standard stuff 1/50th, for statics like speaches 1/25th, for deliberate shot to be slowmo'd, i run 1/125. For action stuff with boys surfing, or running amok in their preps, 1/250 ))

I'm tempted to try it on my new A1 but don't want to risk someones wedding!
((whats there to risk? Go out and tke afwe tet shots, learn ur camera inside out and go nuts. If in doubt, dont, but dont go out on a job wondering about the what if's... ))

[Bankim Jain]

hy, PETER, thx for the wonderfull insight ... It seemed to quench my thirstr for few querries. Would there be any 25p or 50p footage available for viewing any where ???