Client Not Safistied..urrgh

Martin Chab · November 26th, 2006, 06:18 AM

I had a very similar situation and some time ago speaking with a fotographer, that worked many years in this business, he suggest that sometimes weddings get overbudgeted so people try everything, or to gain some more time to get the money to pay, or to get a discount.
Also sometimes is very difficult to evaluate that that take that I considered not really important can have a very strong emotional significance for the client. That is always a risk we have to live with.

Mark Goldberg · November 26th, 2006, 06:59 PM

I have read your original posting and the followups. I think you are correct in what you said, and this fellow is obviously disappointed but is just being nasty. You tried to get some more video of him and his daughter but obviously he refused to cooperate. If you had the camera running when he refused, that would be powerful evidence.

The only think you can do as ask, "What exactly do you want?" Not that you would give it to him. Sometimes people just want to shoot their mouths off out of frustration with themselves. He obviously didn't tell you about this in advance and didn't cooperate with getting the shot, so he is trying to blame you for his mistake.

I say, take his money, and forgetaboutit.

Mike F Smith · November 26th, 2006, 07:34 PM

I have a feeling that the whole father, daughter new wife dynamic is very Freudian and that is some of what you are now dealing with. Having said that I think it is best for you to make the changes as best you can and chalk it up to the rotten client factor, something we all have to deal with from time to time and that should be factored into our business models. I also agree with a previous poster that the line in your contract that says you will fix any mistakes is really weird and should be removed.

Best,

Mike

Leo Pepingco · November 26th, 2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike F Smith

I have a feeling that the whole father, daughter new wife dynamic is very Freudian

As an aside, Freudianism is no longer considered a "valued" psychology method due to the fact that Freud had jack all research to back up his claims.

The so called Oedipous syndrome, although evident in the crazy and most messed up but rare cases, his claim that everyone has it is false. Freud only had one test case, and apparently it was a mental case.

As for the whole father daughter thing with new mother - I'd put my money on Carl Popper and Jung and his theories. I don't like it when the answer to everything Freudian is "Blame it on your mother."

As for the original topic, the sad part was, you did your job, you even asked them to help you help them and arent happy. I'd just shove the clip in anywhere where it looks reasonable enough, and if they complain about the "flow" of the video, send them your original and a letter detailing why the new one looks crap, and the old one does not contain the reason the new one looks like crap... lol (Now lets se Freud blame my mum on that one.)

Peter Jefferson · November 26th, 2006, 10:28 PM

one thing i have found over the years when doing second marriages or mixed marriages (as in mixed by being brady bunch-esque kinda mix) is to focus on teh family unit.
To them, this is probably the first time theyve had a formal outing as one unit and in many MANY cases, its more of a joining of families as opposed to a joining of bride and groom. Obviously the BG factor is the centrepoint, but with anything like this, i try to get personal with my cleints and asking them abotu their history, kids etc etc (youll know when its appropriate as to how to approach particualr people)

Anyways... once u establish a fairly good rapport with the client. ASK
ASK them what they feel is important to them within THEIR presentation.
For me, not only do i ask this, but i take down notes and stick it with their file.. I also allocate areas on teh contract forms for them to include specifics. If they dont fill it out, it means im allowed to use my discretion.
If however they say "i want a shot of uncle bob and teh kids" and i dont have that shot AFTER i sign the agreement, then im screwed. The onus is then up to me to find uncle bob and the kids and at least get a shot of them (which isnt hard to do when i ask dear ol dad who the hell uncle bob is.. , or better yet, grab a greeting from dad, and a congratulatory greeting from uncle bob or whatever.. this way, all bases are covered and clients are happy. Sure its cheesy, but weddings are cheesy...

If this is what the client wants, theyre sure as hell paying me enough to give them THAT... and it doesnt bust my balls to go for a stroll and seek out who i need to find..

Billy Mallari · November 28th, 2006, 07:43 AM

Well in their prior to the wedding, I know they would want me to have shots of their daughters..most of the video have shots of the daughters as well as the parents..

Anyways, the groom agrees to pay me for re-editing. I charge 60 dollars per hour to re-edit some changes. Should I charge for the rendering time? I charged them 1200 for the wedding shoot. If I charge 60 per hour and the render time is 12 hours, that is like close to having to order another wedding video package?

What do you guys do?

Sheldon Blais · November 28th, 2006, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Mallari

Well in their prior to the wedding, I know they would want me to have shots of their daughters..most of the video have shots of the daughters as well as the parents..

Anyways, the groom agrees to pay me for re-editing. I charge 60 dollars per hour to re-edit some changes. Should I charge for the rendering time? I charged them 1200 for the wedding shoot. If I charge 60 per hour and the render time is 12 hours, that is like close to having to order another wedding video package?

What do you guys do?

I don't think you should, but if you are going to charge him for rendering it should be significantly less than your editing rate. I render & burn to DVD while I sleep, so there's no way I could come up with an accurate charge for this.....

Steven Davis · November 28th, 2006, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Mallari

I know he'll never be satisfied..that's the reason we I am fixing it now. He agreed to pay whatever it cost to make those changes. What I'll be charging him is my time.

I would not worry about charging him, because the dollars you charge could be better in thier pocket if it keeps your rep in tact. I had a bride the other day who asked me to convert two tapes onto DVD. I decided not to charge her because as one of my brides, I find her value as a happy client worth more than the 60 dollars or whatever. Obviously I wouldn't do that for just anyone, or any job, but it was a small thing for me and she gave me an 'anytime you can' timeframe.

Just some thoughts.

Sweet, I'm 900 today.

Billy Mallari · November 28th, 2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldon Blais

I don't think you should, but if you are going to charge him for rendering it should be significantly less than your editing rate. I render & burn to DVD while I sleep, so there's no way I could come up with an accurate charge for this.....

how much do you think I should charge if it should be less?

Steven,

I understand what you are trying to say. There were times that I did extra favors at no charge as long as it does not take long. But sometimes you just have to be firm.

If in case I did not charge and did refer me to other people, these potential clients will think that I can re-edit their videos at no charge since I did it with this couple. Even if I did not charge, I doubt that they will still refer me.

If you buy a new house, you can't say that everything will be perfect. If you want certain things done like upgrades, you would have to pay additional charges. The builder selling the house would not give these upgrades for free. the builder sold a house that is liveable and will all features it promised. If you want to change the layout of the house the house then pay more.

I see it the same way in video. I know I delivered a quality video, captured the people important to them except that they prefer some changes. these delays causes time and expense. I only made peanuts when I charged them for their video. Doing these changes for free is like making nothing. I would perhaps make an exception if this couple paid at least 3 grand for their video but they didn't.

Steven Davis · November 28th, 2006, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Mallari

how much do you think I should charge if it should be less?

Steven,

I understand what you are trying to say. There were times that I did extra favors at no charge as long as it does not take long. But sometimes you just have to be firm.

If in case I did not charge and did refer me to other people, these potential clients will think that I can re-edit their videos at no charge since I did it with this couple. Even if I did not charge, I doubt that they will still refer me. .

An option for you to protect yourself from this is; give them a bill that lists the price for reedit, but list a no charge.

For example, I did a gig where I didn't charge for travel, but listed my regular price for travel so that my client knew that at some point our negotiation may change.

I tell ya, with all the energy you invested in the edit of this thing, I'd be looking for way out, give them the shot you have and move on. Everyone that does this type of work knows 'that' feeling of investment, it's very hard when you 'bleed' out on a project and it's not appreciated. This won't be the last difficult client that you will have. And besides, about them referring you to other's who will expect free work, it seems from thier attitude they have at the moment, that may not be an issue.

November 28th, 2006, 07:43 AM	#21
Billy Mallari Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 84	I charge 60$/hr to re-edit..Should I include RENDER TIME? Well in their prior to the wedding, I know they would want me to have shots of their daughters..most of the video have shots of the daughters as well as the parents.. Anyways, the groom agrees to pay me for re-editing. I charge 60 dollars per hour to re-edit some changes. Should I charge for the rendering time? I charged them 1200 for the wedding shoot. If I charge 60 per hour and the render time is 12 hours, that is like close to having to order another wedding video package? What do you guys do?

November 26th, 2006, 06:18 AM	#16
Martin Chab Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Malmo Sweden Posts: 103	I had a very similar situation and some time ago speaking with a fotographer, that worked many years in this business, he suggest that sometimes weddings get overbudgeted so people try everything, or to gain some more time to get the money to pay, or to get a discount. Also sometimes is very difficult to evaluate that that take that I considered not really important can have a very strong emotional significance for the client. That is always a risk we have to live with.

November 26th, 2006, 06:59 PM	#17
Mark Goldberg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Annapolis, Maryland Posts: 101	I have read your original posting and the followups. I think you are correct in what you said, and this fellow is obviously disappointed but is just being nasty. You tried to get some more video of him and his daughter but obviously he refused to cooperate. If you had the camera running when he refused, that would be powerful evidence. The only think you can do as ask, "What exactly do you want?" Not that you would give it to him. Sometimes people just want to shoot their mouths off out of frustration with themselves. He obviously didn't tell you about this in advance and didn't cooperate with getting the shot, so he is trying to blame you for his mistake. I say, take his money, and forgetaboutit.

November 26th, 2006, 07:34 PM	#18
Mike F Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 156	I have a feeling that the whole father, daughter new wife dynamic is very Freudian and that is some of what you are now dealing with. Having said that I think it is best for you to make the changes as best you can and chalk it up to the rotten client factor, something we all have to deal with from time to time and that should be factored into our business models. I also agree with a previous poster that the line in your contract that says you will fix any mistakes is really weird and should be removed. Best, Mike

November 26th, 2006, 10:28 PM	#20
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	one thing i have found over the years when doing second marriages or mixed marriages (as in mixed by being brady bunch-esque kinda mix) is to focus on teh family unit. To them, this is probably the first time theyve had a formal outing as one unit and in many MANY cases, its more of a joining of families as opposed to a joining of bride and groom. Obviously the BG factor is the centrepoint, but with anything like this, i try to get personal with my cleints and asking them abotu their history, kids etc etc (youll know when its appropriate as to how to approach particualr people) Anyways... once u establish a fairly good rapport with the client. ASK ASK them what they feel is important to them within THEIR presentation. For me, not only do i ask this, but i take down notes and stick it with their file.. I also allocate areas on teh contract forms for them to include specifics. If they dont fill it out, it means im allowed to use my discretion. If however they say "i want a shot of uncle bob and teh kids" and i dont have that shot AFTER i sign the agreement, then im screwed. The onus is then up to me to find uncle bob and the kids and at least get a shot of them (which isnt hard to do when i ask dear ol dad who the hell uncle bob is.. , or better yet, grab a greeting from dad, and a congratulatory greeting from uncle bob or whatever.. this way, all bases are covered and clients are happy. Sure its cheesy, but weddings are cheesy... If this is what the client wants, theyre sure as hell paying me enough to give them THAT... and it doesnt bust my balls to go for a stroll and seek out who i need to find..