Personal First

Jason Robinson · October 30th, 2006, 01:04 AM

I have been reading / posting on the boards a while (still wet behind the ears compared to DSE and others) but I have finally decided to post a quick clip and see what the Wedding Editing Experts out there have to say. This was filmed in August 2006 and was my 5th wedding ever shot. The editing is an entirely new style, where I focus around the color white and provide most shots in slightly reduced frame rates with long (3sec) fades to white and back. This is just the introduction to the venu, so do not expect much plot, character development, etc. I am mainly interested in feedback regarding the editing style and shots / angles.

For the tech specs, this is filmed on a Sony HDR-FX1 (Japanese model if that makes a difference). Editing in Vegas 6.d with no color correction and minimal brightness boosting. Rendered to QT6 @ 1Mbps 320x240x32; 48KHz, 16 Bit, Stereo; Sorenson 3 video set to "good"; progressive scan; 1.0 pixel ration; 50% compression quality; key frames every 15;

The video is a 15MB - 2minute Qt6 so please be gentle on my hosting account :-). I'll probably only leave this up for a week (depending on server volume). I also realize that the QT file has black bars at the top but when fading to white the entire screen fades. If anyone knows of a good solution for QT renders, I'm all ears (this shouldn't be an issue when rendering to MPEG2).

http://www.idahodigitalproductions.c...s/bregaj/video

Thanks for the feedback.

Jason

Greg Boston · October 30th, 2006, 01:49 AM

Hi Jason,

A couple of observations.

The opening font was a bit thick, like black letters with black drop shadow.

Too many shots with zoom. Can also detect camera movement from using the zoom.

The way to edit this is to create a 16:9 timeline and do all your effects and transitions. When finished, drop that sequence into a 4:3 timeline and your NLE should add the black bars top and bottom for you. Your transitions will be confined to the original 16:9 area. Think of the 4:3 timeline as a 'placeholder' for your finished work. Like putting a picture in a picture frame with a matte that sizes the frame to the picture.

Hope this helps a little,

-gb-

Jason Robinson · October 30th, 2006, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

Hope this helps a little,
-gb-

Thanks for the tips. I wasn't sure abotu the font either, especially because of exactly what you pointed, out (drop shadow).... I'll probably clear that up.

The camera shake is visible in some shots because I don't have a stabalizer. To mimic one, I shoot with the tripod legs retracted all the way and hanging below the camera to act as a counter balance and just to slow down major vibrations.

I hadn't even considered importing the 16:9 into a 4:3. Very slick. Any thoughts about music suitability, choice of transitions, shot sequence & flow?

Thanks for the input.

jason

Robert Johnston · October 30th, 2006, 03:47 AM

I can't say much as that would be better than mine. This I will say though, that a zoom is really only used as a reveal shoot or a setting up shoot. Some of your shoots revealed nothing. the first house zoom for instance was fine, what you should have done for the second house shoot was have a wide angle as you did have then hold a static shoot.

transitions seemed fine to me as did the music and the flow of the video. I also agree with Greg on the fonts though.

Peter Jefferson · October 30th, 2006, 09:38 AM

Heres a tip.
at 1.30 u show the doves...
why not save a surprise for later and leave those shots out?
In addition to the surprise element, it gives u something to feature after the ceremony. in Addition to that, its not a very nice tohing to see these birds scared shitless in their cages.. to me, doves and butterflys might seem nice, but i feel sorry for the animals.. thats jsut a persoanl opinion, some people might liek to see doves in cages before they see the ceremony, i personally dont..

ok, technicals..

footage was a bit soft, more than likely this is the compression, but i cant tell. Maybe tweak ur settings a bit.. but for 15mb for a 2 minute clip, u can get better results in other formats.

secondly, if u want to focus on whites, it might be an idea to learn how to curve BW.
Whites are all handy dandy, but for real impact, a punchy BW shot thrown in will really stand out.
Also learn some bleach bypass techniques.
I felt teh music u played was pretty good, not my style, but i would have run the footage of the people in slow motion and actually doing something with purpose

When working with curves, be aware of peaking, so always run scopes.

Nice intro, and im sure the clients will love it.

Be aware that white is the most difficult "colour" to work with in video,. ALWAYS test on an external monitor, as what you see, may not look the same to your clients. ALSO and most importantly, using HDV, your pushing the codec with regard to noise and motion (when trying to eachiee that blown out film look), be very careful u dont try to peak your levels in camera, else you'll kill the shot.
umm what else..
oh a technical one here..
white sux..
no seriously, like i said, white is teh most difficult. u MUST be aware of yoru exposure at all times as if white is what your invisioning in your piece, you ned to ensure that u have ur feature subject outlined. Your walking a fine line and to me, using this "theme" would only be recmended as a scenic element (like what youve done) as opposed to having the whole presentation themed in that colour scheme. Another tip, to ensure you dont go over, runa "broadcast colours" filter on the video track. This will alwyas ensure that ur footage remains in safe zones..

Jason Robinson · October 30th, 2006, 03:39 PM

I forgot to mention that despite shooting on HDR-FX1 I am not shooting in HD. This is 16:9 SD footage. I am not impressed with the hoops necessary to jump through for HD capturing (tried it a few times) and my client wants VHS copies of the video so they will not be needing the high quality content. I also just don't have much storage space left until I get rid of some projects.

Thanks to Peter / Greg / Robert for the comments so far. Since this is my first public clip I will be learning much (the zooming comment is especially interesting because I had not even thought about my inclination to zoom... going to have to retrain my shooting style a bit).

Like I mentioned, the focus on white is entirely new for me so I'll make lots of mistakes and I may not stick with that theme for the intro any way. My initial intention was to only use it to highlight the intro. The next scene after this intro would be back to standard color balance with normal 1 sec cross fades (w/o fade to white and back).

Again, thanks for the feed back and don't worry about the server. Seems as though I've got plenty of bandwidth.

jason

Mike F Smith · October 30th, 2006, 09:48 PM

I really liked some of your cinematography.

Some shots are a little too long and one or two a little too short. You want to see a shot long enough to "get it" but not so long you get bored with it. The shot of the chairs was on too long. It got boring. This can get hard if you have worked and worked a project as you can begin to lose perspective.

Some people hate zooms but I would not have minded your zooms too much if the zooming was already occuring at the cut. Your zooms were ok because the whole thing was a kind of Ken Burnsish anyway. It played much like a series of stills. But, when there is a pause and then the zoom starts that really isn't good for this type of project. If you need the clip length it is better to slowmo the clip a little. Same with pans.

A little herkey jerky on the doves but you know that.

I would have slowmoed the kids and used just the best of that clip.

Very Nice Beginning,

Mike

Jason Robinson · October 30th, 2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike F Smith

A little herkey jerky on the doves but you know that.

I would have slowmoed the kids and used just the best of that clip.

Very Nice Beginning,

Mike

You know, I hate having zooms start in the middle of a scene and I thought I caught all of that. I agree completely. I was toying with slow motion on the girls setting up flowers, but I was afraid of over using the shots. Most of the clips in that entire sequence have had some velocity affect applied to stretch. The floor heigth chair shot was actualyl sped up because I zoomed out waaaay too slow when I filmed it. I have yet to find my rhythm for zooming where I don't have to touch it in post.

You are right that I pattern my zooming after a Ken Burns look. The problem with establishing shots of the venue is that by definition mot much is going on (unless people are actively setting up chairs and for this wedding that was done before hand). So I have to provide motion and direction for the footage.

I know some shots seemed long. The present table and ice bucket scenes just were longer than I was comfortable, but I couldn't quite find any additional footage to meet the musical score. I also remember hearing back from previous clients that liked to see the chairs and all that. From an un-involved party it is boring, but I suppose that is the part of the wedding movie where the bride will go "awwww do you remember how uncle Phil spent all morning setting up those chairs..." etc etc. I personally don't like the longer establishing shots, but they have received such good feedback from previous clients that I am hesitant to cut them back or remove them altogether.
Thanks again for the feedback.

jason

Oleg Kalyan · October 31st, 2006, 12:56 AM

Jason, Just a quick comment to add, directions if your zooms and pans... you go left to right and right to left in the next shot , I think it disctracts from your story telling, (viewer more aware of camera) (you may simply reverse it in post, if it's a perfect shot) same goes to zoom in and in next shot out...

Overall it's great for your personal first work!!!

Jason Robinson · October 31st, 2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

Jason, Just a quick comment to add, directions if your zooms and pans... you go left to right and right to left in the next shot , I think it disctracts from your story telling, (viewer more aware of camera) (you may simply reverse it in post, if it's a perfect shot) same goes to zoom in and in next shot out...

Overall it's great for your personal first work!!!

Embarrassingly this is actually my 5th wedding video production, so yes that means I have made similar mistakes 4 times before. :-)

jason

October 30th, 2006, 01:04 AM	#1
Jason Robinson Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,997	Personal First - Sample Wedding Intro Clip I have been reading / posting on the boards a while (still wet behind the ears compared to DSE and others) but I have finally decided to post a quick clip and see what the Wedding Editing Experts out there have to say. This was filmed in August 2006 and was my 5th wedding ever shot. The editing is an entirely new style, where I focus around the color white and provide most shots in slightly reduced frame rates with long (3sec) fades to white and back. This is just the introduction to the venu, so do not expect much plot, character development, etc. I am mainly interested in feedback regarding the editing style and shots / angles. For the tech specs, this is filmed on a Sony HDR-FX1 (Japanese model if that makes a difference). Editing in Vegas 6.d with no color correction and minimal brightness boosting. Rendered to QT6 @ 1Mbps 320x240x32; 48KHz, 16 Bit, Stereo; Sorenson 3 video set to "good"; progressive scan; 1.0 pixel ration; 50% compression quality; key frames every 15; The video is a 15MB - 2minute Qt6 so please be gentle on my hosting account :-). I'll probably only leave this up for a week (depending on server volume). I also realize that the QT file has black bars at the top but when fading to white the entire screen fades. If anyone knows of a good solution for QT renders, I'm all ears (this shouldn't be an issue when rendering to MPEG2). http://www.idahodigitalproductions.c...s/bregaj/video Thanks for the feedback. Jason

October 30th, 2006, 03:39 PM	#6
Jason Robinson Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,997	Correction I forgot to mention that despite shooting on HDR-FX1 I am not shooting in HD. This is 16:9 SD footage. I am not impressed with the hoops necessary to jump through for HD capturing (tried it a few times) and my client wants VHS copies of the video so they will not be needing the high quality content. I also just don't have much storage space left until I get rid of some projects. Thanks to Peter / Greg / Robert for the comments so far. Since this is my first public clip I will be learning much (the zooming comment is especially interesting because I had not even thought about my inclination to zoom... going to have to retrain my shooting style a bit). Like I mentioned, the focus on white is entirely new for me so I'll make lots of mistakes and I may not stick with that theme for the intro any way. My initial intention was to only use it to highlight the intro. The next scene after this intro would be back to standard color balance with normal 1 sec cross fades (w/o fade to white and back). Again, thanks for the feed back and don't worry about the server. Seems as though I've got plenty of bandwidth. jason

October 30th, 2006, 01:49 AM	#2
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Hi Jason, A couple of observations. The opening font was a bit thick, like black letters with black drop shadow. Too many shots with zoom. Can also detect camera movement from using the zoom. The way to edit this is to create a 16:9 timeline and do all your effects and transitions. When finished, drop that sequence into a 4:3 timeline and your NLE should add the black bars top and bottom for you. Your transitions will be confined to the original 16:9 area. Think of the 4:3 timeline as a 'placeholder' for your finished work. Like putting a picture in a picture frame with a matte that sizes the frame to the picture. Hope this helps a little, -gb-

October 30th, 2006, 03:47 AM	#4
Robert Johnston Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: northern ireland Posts: 57	I can't say much as that would be better than mine. This I will say though, that a zoom is really only used as a reveal shoot or a setting up shoot. Some of your shoots revealed nothing. the first house zoom for instance was fine, what you should have done for the second house shoot was have a wide angle as you did have then hold a static shoot. transitions seemed fine to me as did the music and the flow of the video. I also agree with Greg on the fonts though.

October 30th, 2006, 09:38 AM	#5
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Heres a tip. at 1.30 u show the doves... why not save a surprise for later and leave those shots out? In addition to the surprise element, it gives u something to feature after the ceremony. in Addition to that, its not a very nice tohing to see these birds scared shitless in their cages.. to me, doves and butterflys might seem nice, but i feel sorry for the animals.. thats jsut a persoanl opinion, some people might liek to see doves in cages before they see the ceremony, i personally dont.. ok, technicals.. footage was a bit soft, more than likely this is the compression, but i cant tell. Maybe tweak ur settings a bit.. but for 15mb for a 2 minute clip, u can get better results in other formats. secondly, if u want to focus on whites, it might be an idea to learn how to curve BW. Whites are all handy dandy, but for real impact, a punchy BW shot thrown in will really stand out. Also learn some bleach bypass techniques. I felt teh music u played was pretty good, not my style, but i would have run the footage of the people in slow motion and actually doing something with purpose When working with curves, be aware of peaking, so always run scopes. Nice intro, and im sure the clients will love it. Be aware that white is the most difficult "colour" to work with in video,. ALWAYS test on an external monitor, as what you see, may not look the same to your clients. ALSO and most importantly, using HDV, your pushing the codec with regard to noise and motion (when trying to eachiee that blown out film look), be very careful u dont try to peak your levels in camera, else you'll kill the shot. umm what else.. oh a technical one here.. white sux.. no seriously, like i said, white is teh most difficult. u MUST be aware of yoru exposure at all times as if white is what your invisioning in your piece, you ned to ensure that u have ur feature subject outlined. Your walking a fine line and to me, using this "theme" would only be recmended as a scenic element (like what youve done) as opposed to having the whole presentation themed in that colour scheme. Another tip, to ensure you dont go over, runa "broadcast colours" filter on the video track. This will alwyas ensure that ur footage remains in safe zones..

October 30th, 2006, 09:48 PM	#7
Mike F Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 156	I really liked some of your cinematography. Some shots are a little too long and one or two a little too short. You want to see a shot long enough to "get it" but not so long you get bored with it. The shot of the chairs was on too long. It got boring. This can get hard if you have worked and worked a project as you can begin to lose perspective. Some people hate zooms but I would not have minded your zooms too much if the zooming was already occuring at the cut. Your zooms were ok because the whole thing was a kind of Ken Burnsish anyway. It played much like a series of stills. But, when there is a pause and then the zoom starts that really isn't good for this type of project. If you need the clip length it is better to slowmo the clip a little. Same with pans. A little herkey jerky on the doves but you know that. I would have slowmoed the kids and used just the best of that clip. Very Nice Beginning, Mike

October 31st, 2006, 12:56 AM	#9
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Jason, Just a quick comment to add, directions if your zooms and pans... you go left to right and right to left in the next shot , I think it disctracts from your story telling, (viewer more aware of camera) (you may simply reverse it in post, if it's a perfect shot) same goes to zoom in and in next shot out... Overall it's great for your personal first work!!!