Corp jobs.. Tell us more! at DVinfo.net

Albert Baier · October 16th, 2006, 09:05 PM

In reference to another thread about what folks are doing in the off season, several mentioned having corp work keeping them busy. I'm curious (as I'm sure others are as well) about what type of work the non wedding jobs are and if one doesnt mind explaining a bit on how/where you go to attract other, non wedding video projects.

Thanks!

Peter Jefferson · October 16th, 2006, 11:38 PM

They usually approach me through wedding sources (ie clients who got married and are happy with my work so they refer me to their line of work), photographers ive worked with, companies ive dealt with and several which ive approached myself (like afew magazines)
Im now doing afew "videofolios" for some prominant models here in aus, so even if that falls through, at least i had a good time.. ;)

Either way, im getting into stills and slowly phasing out video (should be within teh next 18months or so) as i find video has taken a chunk out of my life which nobody understands, save for those in my position.

Clients are rude and ungrateful, and treat video like its second best, cleints expect and demand things from you which wasnt part of the deal and clients only appreciat what u really do once u give them the finsihed product. The fact that you may have sat down with them for 3 hours to plan the schedule FOR THEIR WHOLE DAY doesnt mean anything to them... Sure their timing is not my problem, but i call it service.. in the end, at least i know its going to run to plan.. somtimes i thnk i shoudl have become a wedding coordinator.. lol

But they quickly forget what youve done for them when it comes to deliver the goods... not for lack of quality.. far from it.. its usually the delivery period... i usualy take 3 to 6 months on average anyway, so comapred to some others that take years, i thnk im doing alright..

With regard to the off season, i found when shooting stills, I havent had the issues faced in the above paragraph. I also find that demand for good photographer is about 80% higher than video.. so the market is larger, willing to spend more, willing to accept LESS from you and the profession itself is much more prominant than video ever could be..
So offering stills during the quiet video times will also keep me busy
In fact, im setting up my business to roll into stills during the "off peak" season..

Albert Baier · October 17th, 2006, 09:40 AM

Thats cool when clients think that highly of you to incorporate your services outside the 'wedding realm'. I've yet to come across that myself. That's why I was curious what/where/who/how folks get those commercial gigs.

Just based on your example and maybe I'm too new to this industry, but from what I've seen so far it seems clients are more into the 'weddings done, got my video, ok thanks.. g'bye!' mentality with videographers.

Seems that photographers are more likely to be the 'referred' people others end up using and paying MORE not to mention seem to get more respect as if we don't work as hard or deliver less.. Cant remember last time I saw a photographer sweat or carry 15-20 lbs of equipment on his upper body... (ok I'm not gonna hijack my own thread to rant about photogs..)

But I am seriously looking into launching photography services next year as well. Might as well attempt to grab the other half of the market out there. The modeling thing sounds interesting...

There actually quite a few things one can do with photo and/or video but it does take time and effort to develop those businesses successfully. Something to look into. I would imagine its a bit easier if this is your primary line of work.. or maybe not. I find that there are not enough hours in the day to promote myself as much as I'd like to.

Peter Jefferson · October 17th, 2006, 10:44 AM

Just based on your example and maybe I'm too new to this industry, but from what I've seen so far it seems clients are more into the 'weddings done, got my video, ok thanks.. g'bye!' mentality with videographers.

((This is too true.. and to be honest, i think this is where ill be directng my videos in the future.. people have been given too much freedom to make decsiions and they assume that they can make the same decisions with video, without knowing how much work has actually gone into that 3 minute clip which they want redone..
Misinformed uneducated clients who want to decide how their video shold be, SHOULDNT get a video unless their willing to edit it for themselves.. this way there is no misconception pertaining to the service.. ))

Seems that photographers are more likely to be the 'referred' people others end up using and paying MORE not to mention seem to get more respect as if we don't work as hard or deliver less.. Cant remember last time I saw a photographer sweat or carry 15-20 lbs of equipment on his upper body... (ok I'm not gonna hijack my own thread to rant about photogs..)

((LOL Not all photogs are bad, 99% are decent, however its the "oh its just the video" stigma Heres one major element which makes phtography stand out..
As people open a magazine and see a nice photo and say WOW.. but how often do they see a WOW wedding video? They dont.. not often enough to have THIS kind of impact anyway..
This immediate eye catcher within the photo is waht brings Photography higher in the public eye than video.
However my marketing tactic is to use THIS SAME method to catch the eye, then to advise the client that THIS photo was actaully taken from a video. Then i ask, do u want to see it. 100% say yes. 95% will book while the other 5% would be tyre kickers.. but if i just used the standard "video this" blurb or video that "remark" or "look how good we are".. it wouldnt carry the same kind of weight, so i use NO TEXT to describe the service))

But I am seriously looking into launching photography services next year as well. Might as well attempt to grab the other half of the market out there. The modeling thing sounds interesting...

((heheheh it is... scouting for cute girls is always fun.. and even though my wife gets a little over it, at least the fffgirls know im not a sleazebag.
I was lucky enough to be invited to be taken under a prominaint photogrpaher's wing who specialises in this sort of thing.
Having the same gear as him, shows that im also serious about this.
I bit the bullet and bought a 5d, but i do not regret (as opposed to getting 2x 30d's <1 for backup> it as taking it on video shoots with me, ive had more people ask ME to shoot stills for them as my gear "is better"
This si people calling after i shoot a wedding wanting a party or whatever shot.. and theyd rather photos than video..

I personally dont care what camera i use, as i take the shots as they are, i use the tools at my disposal.. but people see this big montrosity of a stills camera with a fat assed white lnse and assume that your gear is better than the actual official photographer. With that comes the automatic assumption that "youre better at it" than they are..
Hey look, i dont care, so long as i get a booking, i really dont care what i use, but in stills case, the cameras DO make a difference. For video, the larger cameras can be a hindrance (but thats another thread.. lol) ))

There actually quite a few things one can do with photo and/or video but it does take time and effort to develop those businesses successfully.

((Which is why im giving myself 6 months to train properly, 6 months to launch and market and 18 months to be exlcusive. I wont ever jumop into a decision like this, but at teh end of the day, video has been killing me slowly.. ))

Something to look into. I would imagine its a bit easier if this is your primary line of work.. or maybe not.
((Its easier if all u need to do is focus on the work at hand. bare inmind, tht running a business is never easy..))

I find that there are not enough hours in the day to promote myself as much as I'd like to.
((Promotion isnt a problem.. workflow and workload is. Only now after so many years have i been able to create a flow where i can edit and deliver an edit in less than a week... many years of mistakes and many long lonley nights..
I wont be doing that with stills though.. i wont let myself kill myself..

Life is more important than money and its more important than keeping someone happy.

Richard Wakefield · October 18th, 2006, 05:34 AM

blimey Peter, all we're reading on the threads is your bitterness towards customers and how videography has come...

just remember your fellow videographer forum buddies when you sell your equipment :)

anyway, back to the thread: i'm shooting a corp video for a posh estate in the near future (they've even got a helicopter for aerial shots, joy!), and i've recently shot one for the charity where i work full-time...so much fun, and unlike weddings, you can re-do shots!! basically involved short interviews, gliding shots, interior/exterior shots, and close-ups of people...another thing i love is the fact i can be really creative with cool intros, colorising etc (After Effects, Particular...)

i suggest maybe making a section on your site promoting coroporate filming and sending off professional leaflets to local businesses...u never who who will show interest, so it's worth a try!

Don Bloom · October 18th, 2006, 05:57 AM

Ahh, it just Peters way of saying he loves it ;-)

As for getting corporate work, over the years I have belonged to several different business organizations not the chamber of commerce but similar type and network, network network. I talk to everyone there more than once, always carry a stack of business cards and let everyone know the business I'm in, they can't hire you if the don't know you exsist.

Don

Peter Jefferson · October 18th, 2006, 07:42 AM

LOL not bitter at the work or what i do.. im just dissapointed

aaaaahhhhh Tuesday..
lovely blonde morsel who adores the camera.. should be fun :)

Joel Peregrine · October 18th, 2006, 09:04 AM

Hi Albert,

I had a chance to see this training video and was impressed. I'm not a 'corporate' kind of guy but the ideas and perspective offered makes it look appealing:

http://civideo.com/training/index.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Baier

In reference to another thread about what folks are doing in the off season, several mentioned having corp work keeping them busy. I'm curious (as I'm sure others are as well) about what type of work the non wedding jobs are and if one doesnt mind explaining a bit on how/where you go to attract other, non wedding video projects.

Thanks!

Peter Jefferson · October 18th, 2006, 09:24 AM

thing about corporates is one fundamental thing.
THEYRE the boss.. artistically, aesthetically and contentually.

With corporates, you do not have teh freedom you may find as working on a wedding. So be prepared to deal with "can we have this thi and this changed, and we want more of that, and how about this.. "
I deal with THAT sitation by editing the piece on teh same day in front of them. I carry an external HDD with all my music, and backgrounds, lower thirds etc etc.. and teh lappy is grunty enough to do this fast, so rendering isnt an issue.. but i DO charge them for this...

unlike weddings, corps have set boundaries, so tryin to work within those business requirements, is paramount to your success

Jason Robinson · October 18th, 2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

aaaaahhhhh Tuesday..
lovely blonde morsel who adores the camera.. should be fun :)

Did I mention that I hate you? :-)

Ok so Java programming isn't near as glamorous, or sexy.... but it pays my bills (almost).

Regarding clients wanting fast turn around, I have told all my recent clients that working with me is a min of 4 months for a finished product. This is partly to let them know up front that there is a LOT of work that goes into the product, and partly to give me room if something throws my schedule completely off balance.

jason

Albert Baier · October 18th, 2006, 11:26 AM

Hey Joel.. thanks for the link... thought it was something free and informative..but 99 bux ... hmmm

By the looks of what they offer it might have several informative items but nothing I'm sure you can't learn about online or reading the forums - or even common sense.

Plus I always feel like the people selling these videos to help you 'make money' are really the ones who know how to make the money selling the videos.. if that makes sense.. kinda like the 'make money in real estate for little or no money down lectures. The lectures are free but they pysch you up and get you to buy the books and tapes for only 499.99'

Maybe its me but I'm not too much a fan of the 'Informative' style dvds... it always seems that whatever is explained may not apply to a) your region b) your goals and direction c) assumes your level is below what it really is

Just curious - in brief, what did you get out of the video?

thx

* How similar corporate video is to wedding video
* Why, as a wedding videographer, you already have most of the skills you will need
* How to market yourself
* What equipment you will need
* How to determine what your clients needs are
* How to record seminars & trainings that include Power Point
* The basics of lighting a subject
* and much more!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Peregrine

Hi Albert,

I had a chance to see this training video and was impressed. I'm not a 'corporate' kind of guy but the ideas and perspective offered makes it look appealing:

http://civideo.com/training/index.html

Albert Baier · October 18th, 2006, 11:28 AM

Oooohhhh now I know what web site you shoot video for ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

LOL not bitter at the work or what i do.. im just dissapointed

aaaaahhhhh Tuesday..
lovely blonde morsel who adores the camera.. should be fun :)

Waldemar Winkler · October 18th, 2006, 04:48 PM

Corporate work. Been there, done that. Haven't forgotten any of it, so I don't have to do it again.
I spent most of my professional life staging corporate events. A small piece of that time was actually involved in production. Both activities were extradinary fun and full of challenges.
Above all, Corporate work is a matter of planning and working with several different organizations, each with a different persepective. You must combine the imagination of company vision with those of advertising vision within you own vision. You work with many different people who have experience that is mostly zero to a few who have real understanding of what you are trying to accomplish.
Most importantly, you must work fast, accurately, and produce on a timely basis.
You must also work with the best equipment. If not, you convince those you collaborate with that it is the best available.
You get into corporate work by networking. you never take on a job that is beyond your ability to complete on time, but must push the edge of that fine line between success and failure.
Corporate work pay very well, but it also costs, so plan accordingly.

Joe Allen Rosenberger · October 18th, 2006, 05:35 PM

Another thing to consider for corporate work is "sub" help.

You should have a list of exceptional graphic artists, sound people, camera operators/DP's, jib/steadicam ops....the list goes on.

There may be a time and place where the corp job you get is bigger than you can handle as a one or two man band or even have the talent and or gear to make it happen.....this is fine if you have the talent and connections to make it happen. Bidding becomes a lot more challenging in that environment since you may be subbing some of the work out.

I'd highly suggest producing much smaller corp jobs prior to ever taking on the bigger one's.

Albert Baier · October 18th, 2006, 09:40 PM

Waldemar / Joe

Thanks for the good advice and insight from your experiences.

October 16th, 2006, 09:05 PM	#1
Albert Baier Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 56	Corp jobs.. Tell us more! In reference to another thread about what folks are doing in the off season, several mentioned having corp work keeping them busy. I'm curious (as I'm sure others are as well) about what type of work the non wedding jobs are and if one doesnt mind explaining a bit on how/where you go to attract other, non wedding video projects. Thanks! __________________ www.digitaldreamzstudios.com

October 17th, 2006, 09:40 AM	#3
Albert Baier Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 56	Thats cool when clients think that highly of you to incorporate your services outside the 'wedding realm'. I've yet to come across that myself. That's why I was curious what/where/who/how folks get those commercial gigs. Just based on your example and maybe I'm too new to this industry, but from what I've seen so far it seems clients are more into the 'weddings done, got my video, ok thanks.. g'bye!' mentality with videographers. Seems that photographers are more likely to be the 'referred' people others end up using and paying MORE not to mention seem to get more respect as if we don't work as hard or deliver less.. Cant remember last time I saw a photographer sweat or carry 15-20 lbs of equipment on his upper body... (ok I'm not gonna hijack my own thread to rant about photogs..) But I am seriously looking into launching photography services next year as well. Might as well attempt to grab the other half of the market out there. The modeling thing sounds interesting... There actually quite a few things one can do with photo and/or video but it does take time and effort to develop those businesses successfully. Something to look into. I would imagine its a bit easier if this is your primary line of work.. or maybe not. I find that there are not enough hours in the day to promote myself as much as I'd like to. __________________ www.digitaldreamzstudios.com

October 18th, 2006, 04:48 PM	#13
Waldemar Winkler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Durango, Colorado, USA Posts: 711	Corporate work. Been there, done that. Haven't forgotten any of it, so I don't have to do it again. I spent most of my professional life staging corporate events. A small piece of that time was actually involved in production. Both activities were extradinary fun and full of challenges. Above all, Corporate work is a matter of planning and working with several different organizations, each with a different persepective. You must combine the imagination of company vision with those of advertising vision within you own vision. You work with many different people who have experience that is mostly zero to a few who have real understanding of what you are trying to accomplish. Most importantly, you must work fast, accurately, and produce on a timely basis. You must also work with the best equipment. If not, you convince those you collaborate with that it is the best available. You get into corporate work by networking. you never take on a job that is beyond your ability to complete on time, but must push the edge of that fine line between success and failure. Corporate work pay very well, but it also costs, so plan accordingly. __________________ Waldemar

October 18th, 2006, 09:40 PM	#15
Albert Baier Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 56	Waldemar / Joe Thanks for the good advice and insight from your experiences. __________________ www.digitaldreamzstudios.com

October 16th, 2006, 11:38 PM	#2
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	They usually approach me through wedding sources (ie clients who got married and are happy with my work so they refer me to their line of work), photographers ive worked with, companies ive dealt with and several which ive approached myself (like afew magazines) Im now doing afew "videofolios" for some prominant models here in aus, so even if that falls through, at least i had a good time.. ;) Either way, im getting into stills and slowly phasing out video (should be within teh next 18months or so) as i find video has taken a chunk out of my life which nobody understands, save for those in my position. Clients are rude and ungrateful, and treat video like its second best, cleints expect and demand things from you which wasnt part of the deal and clients only appreciat what u really do once u give them the finsihed product. The fact that you may have sat down with them for 3 hours to plan the schedule FOR THEIR WHOLE DAY doesnt mean anything to them... Sure their timing is not my problem, but i call it service.. in the end, at least i know its going to run to plan.. somtimes i thnk i shoudl have become a wedding coordinator.. lol But they quickly forget what youve done for them when it comes to deliver the goods... not for lack of quality.. far from it.. its usually the delivery period... i usualy take 3 to 6 months on average anyway, so comapred to some others that take years, i thnk im doing alright.. With regard to the off season, i found when shooting stills, I havent had the issues faced in the above paragraph. I also find that demand for good photographer is about 80% higher than video.. so the market is larger, willing to spend more, willing to accept LESS from you and the profession itself is much more prominant than video ever could be.. So offering stills during the quiet video times will also keep me busy In fact, im setting up my business to roll into stills during the "off peak" season..

October 17th, 2006, 10:44 AM	#4
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Just based on your example and maybe I'm too new to this industry, but from what I've seen so far it seems clients are more into the 'weddings done, got my video, ok thanks.. g'bye!' mentality with videographers. ((This is too true.. and to be honest, i think this is where ill be directng my videos in the future.. people have been given too much freedom to make decsiions and they assume that they can make the same decisions with video, without knowing how much work has actually gone into that 3 minute clip which they want redone.. Misinformed uneducated clients who want to decide how their video shold be, SHOULDNT get a video unless their willing to edit it for themselves.. this way there is no misconception pertaining to the service.. )) Seems that photographers are more likely to be the 'referred' people others end up using and paying MORE not to mention seem to get more respect as if we don't work as hard or deliver less.. Cant remember last time I saw a photographer sweat or carry 15-20 lbs of equipment on his upper body... (ok I'm not gonna hijack my own thread to rant about photogs..) ((LOL Not all photogs are bad, 99% are decent, however its the "oh its just the video" stigma Heres one major element which makes phtography stand out.. As people open a magazine and see a nice photo and say WOW.. but how often do they see a WOW wedding video? They dont.. not often enough to have THIS kind of impact anyway.. This immediate eye catcher within the photo is waht brings Photography higher in the public eye than video. However my marketing tactic is to use THIS SAME method to catch the eye, then to advise the client that THIS photo was actaully taken from a video. Then i ask, do u want to see it. 100% say yes. 95% will book while the other 5% would be tyre kickers.. but if i just used the standard "video this" blurb or video that "remark" or "look how good we are".. it wouldnt carry the same kind of weight, so i use NO TEXT to describe the service)) But I am seriously looking into launching photography services next year as well. Might as well attempt to grab the other half of the market out there. The modeling thing sounds interesting... ((heheheh it is... scouting for cute girls is always fun.. and even though my wife gets a little over it, at least the fffgirls know im not a sleazebag. I was lucky enough to be invited to be taken under a prominaint photogrpaher's wing who specialises in this sort of thing. Having the same gear as him, shows that im also serious about this. I bit the bullet and bought a 5d, but i do not regret (as opposed to getting 2x 30d's <1 for backup> it as taking it on video shoots with me, ive had more people ask ME to shoot stills for them as my gear "is better" This si people calling after i shoot a wedding wanting a party or whatever shot.. and theyd rather photos than video.. I personally dont care what camera i use, as i take the shots as they are, i use the tools at my disposal.. but people see this big montrosity of a stills camera with a fat assed white lnse and assume that your gear is better than the actual official photographer. With that comes the automatic assumption that "youre better at it" than they are.. Hey look, i dont care, so long as i get a booking, i really dont care what i use, but in stills case, the cameras DO make a difference. For video, the larger cameras can be a hindrance (but thats another thread.. lol) )) There actually quite a few things one can do with photo and/or video but it does take time and effort to develop those businesses successfully. ((Which is why im giving myself 6 months to train properly, 6 months to launch and market and 18 months to be exlcusive. I wont ever jumop into a decision like this, but at teh end of the day, video has been killing me slowly.. )) Something to look into. I would imagine its a bit easier if this is your primary line of work.. or maybe not. ((Its easier if all u need to do is focus on the work at hand. bare inmind, tht running a business is never easy..)) I find that there are not enough hours in the day to promote myself as much as I'd like to. ((Promotion isnt a problem.. workflow and workload is. Only now after so many years have i been able to create a flow where i can edit and deliver an edit in less than a week... many years of mistakes and many long lonley nights.. I wont be doing that with stills though.. i wont let myself kill myself.. Life is more important than money and its more important than keeping someone happy.

October 18th, 2006, 05:34 AM	#5
Richard Wakefield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Surrey, UK Posts: 680	blimey Peter, all we're reading on the threads is your bitterness towards customers and how videography has come... just remember your fellow videographer forum buddies when you sell your equipment :) anyway, back to the thread: i'm shooting a corp video for a posh estate in the near future (they've even got a helicopter for aerial shots, joy!), and i've recently shot one for the charity where i work full-time...so much fun, and unlike weddings, you can re-do shots!! basically involved short interviews, gliding shots, interior/exterior shots, and close-ups of people...another thing i love is the fact i can be really creative with cool intros, colorising etc (After Effects, Particular...) i suggest maybe making a section on your site promoting coroporate filming and sending off professional leaflets to local businesses...u never who who will show interest, so it's worth a try!

October 18th, 2006, 05:57 AM	#6
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Ahh, it just Peters way of saying he loves it ;-) As for getting corporate work, over the years I have belonged to several different business organizations not the chamber of commerce but similar type and network, network network. I talk to everyone there more than once, always carry a stack of business cards and let everyone know the business I'm in, they can't hire you if the don't know you exsist. Don

October 18th, 2006, 07:42 AM	#7
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	LOL not bitter at the work or what i do.. im just dissapointed aaaaahhhhh Tuesday.. lovely blonde morsel who adores the camera.. should be fun :)

October 18th, 2006, 09:24 AM	#9
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	thing about corporates is one fundamental thing. THEYRE the boss.. artistically, aesthetically and contentually. With corporates, you do not have teh freedom you may find as working on a wedding. So be prepared to deal with "can we have this thi and this changed, and we want more of that, and how about this.. " I deal with THAT sitation by editing the piece on teh same day in front of them. I carry an external HDD with all my music, and backgrounds, lower thirds etc etc.. and teh lappy is grunty enough to do this fast, so rendering isnt an issue.. but i DO charge them for this... unlike weddings, corps have set boundaries, so tryin to work within those business requirements, is paramount to your success

October 18th, 2006, 05:35 PM	#14
Joe Allen Rosenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 419	Another thing to consider for corporate work is "sub" help. You should have a list of exceptional graphic artists, sound people, camera operators/DP's, jib/steadicam ops....the list goes on. There may be a time and place where the corp job you get is bigger than you can handle as a one or two man band or even have the talent and or gear to make it happen.....this is fine if you have the talent and connections to make it happen. Bidding becomes a lot more challenging in that environment since you may be subbing some of the work out. I'd highly suggest producing much smaller corp jobs prior to ever taking on the bigger one's.