Highlights clip for critique at DVinfo.net

Dan Shallenberger · September 25th, 2006, 11:10 AM

I apologize for the huge file sizes, but I stink at encoding for web. They do start play very quickly, though, even the H.264 version.

High-quality/large size Quicktime H.264 (requires Quicktime 7) [145 megs]
http://www.inspirednaturally.com/EvanAndEllen.h264.mov

Med Quality/small size Quicktime MPEG4 [50 megs]
http://www.inspirednaturally.com/EvanAndEllen.mp4.mov

Med Quality/large size WMV [42 megs]
http://www.inspirednaturally.com/EvanAndEllen.wmv

Although I have been editing wedding for a while, this is my first wedding completely on my own. This wedding was very elegant and was very "vintage" in style. I tried to portray her wedding style in this video.

Thanks for viewing!
Dan

Tom McDougal · September 25th, 2006, 12:54 PM

I guess i'm first to watch and enjoy your recap.
Great job. Music is very inspiring and matches perfectly espcially with the edit.

What kind of gear did you use to pan and boom thoughout the room during the setup of reception room

Enjoyed the vintage style footage during the first dance / family-bridal party interviews.

Bravo!

Sheldon Blais · September 25th, 2006, 01:19 PM

I loved the intro with the flashy e's. I did not like the vintage effect at all--maybe you could adjust it isn't so jumpy. Slow motion was also overused.

The shots with the chandelier and the reception tables were excellent! The video was also very clear and the outdoor colors were brilliant.

Good work....

Dan Shallenberger · September 25th, 2006, 01:40 PM

Tom...

Thanks! I appreciate your comments. For the boom shots, I put my camera at the top of a fully extended monopod (ala Mark VonLanken). I can't remember the monopod model #, but it's a Bogen with the handle for quick-release of the top section, and a twist release for the lower section. I wanted to buy the one Mark uses, with the three little legs that pop out from the bottom, but I love the quaick-release handle.

Dan

Dan Shallenberger · September 25th, 2006, 01:46 PM

Sheldon,

The EE animation was done in After Effects. It's identical to the little EE logo they had on their invitation and program. I try on every edit to incorporate the look and feel of their invite and program, because they spent a lot of time and money on them, and it reflects their interest and style. Thanks for the compliments!

When you say the vintage segments are too jumpy, do you mean the camera work, or the filter? I want to adjust the filter to reduce the flickering a bit, but I like the jumpy camera work. Reminds me of my dad's footage from his old super-8.

Thanks for your comments!

Dan

Sheldon Blais · September 25th, 2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Shallenberger

Sheldon,

The EE animation was done in After Effects. It's identical to the little EE logo they had on their invitation and program. I try on every edit to incorporate the look and feel of their invite and program, because they spent a lot of time and money on them, and it reflects their interest and style. Thanks for the compliments!

When you say the vintage segments are too jumpy, do you mean the camera work, or the filter? I want to adjust the filter to reduce the flickering a bit, but I like the jumpy camera work. Reminds me of my dad's footage from his old super-8.

Thanks for your comments!

Dan

The filter.....it leaves a slim white border when it jumps.

Dan Shallenberger · September 25th, 2006, 01:57 PM

Sheldon, yeah I noticed that. On the DVD the tv clips that off and you never see it. For the web video, though, I'm getting the entire frame.

I'll see if I can crop that off for the web video. I'd like to not see that if I can help it.

Thanks again,
Dan

Chris M. Watson · September 25th, 2006, 02:10 PM

I had a mixed reaction to the clip. There are things I really liked and there were a few things that bothered me. Overall I think there's some real potential in your work once some of the bugs get worked out.

Pros:

1. Good storytelling: You moved the story along and hit your marks for the most part in relation to the music.

2. Time Shifting: I liked the white iris effect that introduces some non synchronous elements into the production. Add in the toasts and that seals the deal. TS is hard to pull off but you did it well.

Cons:

1. Not a fan of the vintage camera work. When you shoot in that style you're pretty much stuck with one editing choice. I would shoot it straight and add the clutter later. That way you have more options in post.

2. Use of filters: As I said above, I thought the white iris effect was a great segue into the time shifting but the switch from B&W to color was confusing and threw me out of the story you wanted to tell.

3. Titling: The AE logo thing was awesome but the words scaled back a little too far back for me. Maybe start it larger and end where it's normal size on the screen?

I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh and it's taken in the spirit it was given. I look forward to seeing future work from you.

Chris Watson
Watson Videography

Dan Shallenberger · September 25th, 2006, 03:30 PM

Chris, thanks for taking the time to watch the clip and respond, and thanks for the compliments.

About the cons, I have a couple of questions.
1. What didn't you like about the vintage camera work? What would you have done differently? Was it too shaky?

BTW, I actually didn't shoot hardly any of it that way on purpose. I just grabbed clips that were before and after my smoother shots, as well as some misc in-between shots. I only planned on one short vintage-style segment before editing, and shot very little that way on purpose.

2. I only have a few segments where I switch from bw to color... was there a particular part you're referring to, or everything?

3. For the titling, I see what you are saying there. I tried making it zoom in as opposed to out, but I liked the feel of out better. I'll experiment with less zooming out, maybe only 10% or so for a much more subtle movement.

You didn't come across as too harsh at all. I wanted constructive criticism and that's exactly what you gave me. I just wanted, with my questions above, to be a little more clear on what you were referring to.

Thanks for the advice!

Dan

Chris M. Watson · September 25th, 2006, 04:33 PM

1. What didn't you like about the vintage camera work? What would you have done differently? Was it too shaky?

I thought it was a tad unwieldy. I think good examples of the technique you're going for can be found on the new Battlestar Galactica. I'm glad that you explained about the origin of those shots. It makes alot more sense.

2. I only have a few segments where I switch from bw to color... was there a particular part you're referring to, or everything?

Well the place that bugged me was when they were on the dance floor and it went back to color. I see where you were going with the effect but the switch back to color when they're on the dance floor took me out of the moment. Not a deal breaker

Hope this clarifies things a little.

Chris Watson
Watson Videography

Waldemar Winkler · September 25th, 2006, 06:37 PM

If your clients chose a "vintage style", then so be it. However, the fact remains this event occured today (or very recently), so what is the point of monochrome when current technology is not monochrome? Monochrome has a place, but it has to make sense in the linear progression of events, and I do not feel you did that. Instead, I feel you used monochrome as a special effect to no purpose except, perhaps, some kind of pizazz, which made no sense to me.

Aside from that, a good selection of images with a pleasant blending of audio tracks. Some of these images were, I think, too long on screen (perhaps fractions of seconds too long, in my opinion). Almost too viewer-subjective for comment, but I mention it nonetheless.

Close-ups were excellent and fully exploited.

Your clients will love your work. I liked a good part of it as well. Even downloaded a copy to my deskstop for study when I have a bit more time to review. I don't do that very often. In respect, that copy will be deleted within three days, unless I have your express permission to keep it longer.

Jason Bowers · September 25th, 2006, 07:43 PM

I enjoyed it, nicely done. Which after effects are you using and is that a preset animation? Are you also using any stabalizer equipment cause the rising shot over the cake was well done. What is the music you chose also.
Good job!

Jason

Patrick Moreau · September 25th, 2006, 08:29 PM

I thought you had some excellent detail shots at the reception and I really like the titling you used at the ending.

I also wasn't a big fan of the vintage camera effect, but more than that, the camera work used uring the vintage camera effect, also through me off a bit. I also think your shot selection could have been a little more varied in certain portions such as the bride getting her make-up done and the first dance portions- I would have tried to mix in some wide shots, some tight shots, and some other details to tell more of the story and pull the viewer in. Regardless of the style used, I personally feel like a highlights clip should give you a feeling for who the couple are as people and what their wedding day was like, but I personally don't think enough of that story came through here. I got bits of information, but I wasn't left with an overall feeling- if that makes sense.

On the other end of things, I really liked how you worked the time shifting in there and how it fit with the music. I think the piece was overall very well put together and made good use of the voice overs.

Noah Hayes · September 25th, 2006, 08:52 PM

Looked great for your first solo wedding, I wish my first wedding looked as nice. I somehow always get clients with boring locations and decor (but I've only done 3 weddings so far...so maybe I'll get some cool settings eventually)

Couple questions and comments however. I also disliked the extensive use of the vintage look. I realize you were just trying to coverup some shaky footage you had, to make it look like you intended it, but didn't seem to fit in with the rest of the video.

When your footage wasn't shaky it was very smooth. What stabilizer were you using. It looked like FX1/Z1U footage downrezed, was that what you were using? I've been looking into stabilizers, but haven't bitten the bullet because I figured it was be more obtrusive then helpful, but now I'm reconsidering now.

Dan Shallenberger · September 25th, 2006, 10:27 PM

Chris, thanks for clarifying. You have helped a lot.

Waldemar, thank you very much for your input. And yes, you have my permission to keep the clip on your computer for as long as you want.

Jason, thank you! I used Trapcode 3D Stroke and Starglow for the EE effect in AE 6.5 Pro. I did not use my Glidecam for any of the shots in this highlights, although I did use it there. All the moving camera shots were either handheld, or on a monopod up in the air. The cake shot you refered to was handheld over my head (have to watch the mic and make sure it doesn't touch the cake :-) The music is from Cinderella Man.

Patrick, I agreed with you about the vintage shots being too jarring, and I did review your other suggestions and made a couple of changes to the video. Thanks for the compliments!

Noah, thanks for replying. I did not use the vintage footage to cover up bad shots. I purposely used bad shots to make the vintage segments :-) I don't cover up bad shots with effects, I just eliminate them. I have since made some changes and I think it looks much better. I didn't use any stabilizers actually, only handheld or on a monopod raised up for boom shots. My camera is a PD170, but I'm looking at the Z1's. I love the PD's, so it will be a difficult change. I'll more than likely wait for the next generation Sony's to see what they improve.

September 25th, 2006, 11:10 AM	#1
Dan Shallenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 253	Highlights clip for critique I apologize for the huge file sizes, but I stink at encoding for web. They do start play very quickly, though, even the H.264 version. High-quality/large size Quicktime H.264 (requires Quicktime 7) [145 megs] http://www.inspirednaturally.com/EvanAndEllen.h264.mov Med Quality/small size Quicktime MPEG4 [50 megs] http://www.inspirednaturally.com/EvanAndEllen.mp4.mov Med Quality/large size WMV [42 megs] http://www.inspirednaturally.com/EvanAndEllen.wmv Although I have been editing wedding for a while, this is my first wedding completely on my own. This wedding was very elegant and was very "vintage" in style. I tried to portray her wedding style in this video. Thanks for viewing! Dan

September 25th, 2006, 06:37 PM	#11
Waldemar Winkler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Durango, Colorado, USA Posts: 711	If your clients chose a "vintage style", then so be it. However, the fact remains this event occured today (or very recently), so what is the point of monochrome when current technology is not monochrome? Monochrome has a place, but it has to make sense in the linear progression of events, and I do not feel you did that. Instead, I feel you used monochrome as a special effect to no purpose except, perhaps, some kind of pizazz, which made no sense to me. Aside from that, a good selection of images with a pleasant blending of audio tracks. Some of these images were, I think, too long on screen (perhaps fractions of seconds too long, in my opinion). Almost too viewer-subjective for comment, but I mention it nonetheless. Close-ups were excellent and fully exploited. Your clients will love your work. I liked a good part of it as well. Even downloaded a copy to my deskstop for study when I have a bit more time to review. I don't do that very often. In respect, that copy will be deleted within three days, unless I have your express permission to keep it longer. __________________ Waldemar

September 25th, 2006, 12:54 PM	#2
Tom McDougal Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Port Jefferson, New York Posts: 62	I guess i'm first to watch and enjoy your recap. Great job. Music is very inspiring and matches perfectly espcially with the edit. What kind of gear did you use to pan and boom thoughout the room during the setup of reception room Enjoyed the vintage style footage during the first dance / family-bridal party interviews. Bravo!

September 25th, 2006, 01:19 PM	#3
Sheldon Blais Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 114	I loved the intro with the flashy e's. I did not like the vintage effect at all--maybe you could adjust it isn't so jumpy. Slow motion was also overused. The shots with the chandelier and the reception tables were excellent! The video was also very clear and the outdoor colors were brilliant. Good work....

September 25th, 2006, 01:40 PM	#4
Dan Shallenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 253	Tom... Thanks! I appreciate your comments. For the boom shots, I put my camera at the top of a fully extended monopod (ala Mark VonLanken). I can't remember the monopod model #, but it's a Bogen with the handle for quick-release of the top section, and a twist release for the lower section. I wanted to buy the one Mark uses, with the three little legs that pop out from the bottom, but I love the quaick-release handle. Dan

September 25th, 2006, 01:46 PM	#5
Dan Shallenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 253	Sheldon, The EE animation was done in After Effects. It's identical to the little EE logo they had on their invitation and program. I try on every edit to incorporate the look and feel of their invite and program, because they spent a lot of time and money on them, and it reflects their interest and style. Thanks for the compliments! When you say the vintage segments are too jumpy, do you mean the camera work, or the filter? I want to adjust the filter to reduce the flickering a bit, but I like the jumpy camera work. Reminds me of my dad's footage from his old super-8. Thanks for your comments! Dan

September 25th, 2006, 01:57 PM	#7
Dan Shallenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 253	Sheldon, yeah I noticed that. On the DVD the tv clips that off and you never see it. For the web video, though, I'm getting the entire frame. I'll see if I can crop that off for the web video. I'd like to not see that if I can help it. Thanks again, Dan

September 25th, 2006, 02:10 PM	#8
Chris M. Watson Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 104	I had a mixed reaction to the clip. There are things I really liked and there were a few things that bothered me. Overall I think there's some real potential in your work once some of the bugs get worked out. Pros: 1. Good storytelling: You moved the story along and hit your marks for the most part in relation to the music. 2. Time Shifting: I liked the white iris effect that introduces some non synchronous elements into the production. Add in the toasts and that seals the deal. TS is hard to pull off but you did it well. Cons: 1. Not a fan of the vintage camera work. When you shoot in that style you're pretty much stuck with one editing choice. I would shoot it straight and add the clutter later. That way you have more options in post. 2. Use of filters: As I said above, I thought the white iris effect was a great segue into the time shifting but the switch from B&W to color was confusing and threw me out of the story you wanted to tell. 3. Titling: The AE logo thing was awesome but the words scaled back a little too far back for me. Maybe start it larger and end where it's normal size on the screen? I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh and it's taken in the spirit it was given. I look forward to seeing future work from you. Chris Watson Watson Videography

September 25th, 2006, 03:30 PM	#9
Dan Shallenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 253	Chris, thanks for taking the time to watch the clip and respond, and thanks for the compliments. About the cons, I have a couple of questions. 1. What didn't you like about the vintage camera work? What would you have done differently? Was it too shaky? BTW, I actually didn't shoot hardly any of it that way on purpose. I just grabbed clips that were before and after my smoother shots, as well as some misc in-between shots. I only planned on one short vintage-style segment before editing, and shot very little that way on purpose. 2. I only have a few segments where I switch from bw to color... was there a particular part you're referring to, or everything? 3. For the titling, I see what you are saying there. I tried making it zoom in as opposed to out, but I liked the feel of out better. I'll experiment with less zooming out, maybe only 10% or so for a much more subtle movement. You didn't come across as too harsh at all. I wanted constructive criticism and that's exactly what you gave me. I just wanted, with my questions above, to be a little more clear on what you were referring to. Thanks for the advice! Dan

September 25th, 2006, 04:33 PM	#10
Chris M. Watson Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 104	1. What didn't you like about the vintage camera work? What would you have done differently? Was it too shaky? I thought it was a tad unwieldy. I think good examples of the technique you're going for can be found on the new Battlestar Galactica. I'm glad that you explained about the origin of those shots. It makes alot more sense. 2. I only have a few segments where I switch from bw to color... was there a particular part you're referring to, or everything? Well the place that bugged me was when they were on the dance floor and it went back to color. I see where you were going with the effect but the switch back to color when they're on the dance floor took me out of the moment. Not a deal breaker Hope this clarifies things a little. Chris Watson Watson Videography

September 25th, 2006, 07:43 PM	#12
Jason Bowers Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thunder Bay, ON. Canada Posts: 374	I enjoyed it, nicely done. Which after effects are you using and is that a preset animation? Are you also using any stabalizer equipment cause the rising shot over the cake was well done. What is the music you chose also. Good job! Jason

September 25th, 2006, 08:29 PM	#13
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	I thought you had some excellent detail shots at the reception and I really like the titling you used at the ending. I also wasn't a big fan of the vintage camera effect, but more than that, the camera work used uring the vintage camera effect, also through me off a bit. I also think your shot selection could have been a little more varied in certain portions such as the bride getting her make-up done and the first dance portions- I would have tried to mix in some wide shots, some tight shots, and some other details to tell more of the story and pull the viewer in. Regardless of the style used, I personally feel like a highlights clip should give you a feeling for who the couple are as people and what their wedding day was like, but I personally don't think enough of that story came through here. I got bits of information, but I wasn't left with an overall feeling- if that makes sense. On the other end of things, I really liked how you worked the time shifting in there and how it fit with the music. I think the piece was overall very well put together and made good use of the voice overs.

September 25th, 2006, 08:52 PM	#14
Noah Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sterling, Virginia Posts: 226	Looked great for your first solo wedding, I wish my first wedding looked as nice. I somehow always get clients with boring locations and decor (but I've only done 3 weddings so far...so maybe I'll get some cool settings eventually) Couple questions and comments however. I also disliked the extensive use of the vintage look. I realize you were just trying to coverup some shaky footage you had, to make it look like you intended it, but didn't seem to fit in with the rest of the video. When your footage wasn't shaky it was very smooth. What stabilizer were you using. It looked like FX1/Z1U footage downrezed, was that what you were using? I've been looking into stabilizers, but haven't bitten the bullet because I figured it was be more obtrusive then helpful, but now I'm reconsidering now.

September 25th, 2006, 10:27 PM	#15
Dan Shallenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 253	Chris, thanks for clarifying. You have helped a lot. Waldemar, thank you very much for your input. And yes, you have my permission to keep the clip on your computer for as long as you want. Jason, thank you! I used Trapcode 3D Stroke and Starglow for the EE effect in AE 6.5 Pro. I did not use my Glidecam for any of the shots in this highlights, although I did use it there. All the moving camera shots were either handheld, or on a monopod up in the air. The cake shot you refered to was handheld over my head (have to watch the mic and make sure it doesn't touch the cake :-) The music is from Cinderella Man. Patrick, I agreed with you about the vintage shots being too jarring, and I did review your other suggestions and made a couple of changes to the video. Thanks for the compliments! Noah, thanks for replying. I did not use the vintage footage to cover up bad shots. I purposely used bad shots to make the vintage segments :-) I don't cover up bad shots with effects, I just eliminate them. I have since made some changes and I think it looks much better. I didn't use any stabilizers actually, only handheld or on a monopod raised up for boom shots. My camera is a PD170, but I'm looking at the Z1's. I love the PD's, so it will be a difficult change. I'll more than likely wait for the next generation Sony's to see what they improve.