Up coming Wedding at DVinfo.net

Dante Waters · September 19th, 2006, 01:46 PM

Alright folks. Got a wedding for a bit over $1200 dollars.

There are a few things that would come in handy:

Steadicam: http://tinyurl.com/zlft4
Wide angle lens: http://tinyurl.com/btgru

But which one of them I'll be getting a $600 deposit

Camera I'll be using is the Sony VX2100.

Tom Hardwick · September 19th, 2006, 02:16 PM

The 0872 Sony wide-angle lens will work ok on your VX2100 if you also buy a 58>72 step up ring, but I'd not advise it as a combo. For starters the 0.8x is very mild, and the 2100 really cries out for a 0.5x to give you some decent wide options. Then again the lens is pretty expensive, though if you plan to get an FX1 next it would be a good buy.

tom.

Don Bloom · September 19th, 2006, 02:28 PM

Century Optics (expensive) and KenkoPro line (less expensive) offer a .65 both work quite well. I have both and use the Kenko Pro more than the CO-make sure you go to the PRO line for the Kenko. They come in screw and bayonet mounts-I prefer the bayonet. As you can tell from my post I feel the WA is more important than the "stedicam" at this time. First you may need if for larger groups, I use mine quite a bit for reception dancing, and second the glidecam, steadicam devices, which are great tools require quite a bit of practicing before you use it on a paying gig.

Personally I think right now you'd get more use out of the WA but that's just me.

Don

Peter Chung · September 19th, 2006, 03:27 PM

If you don't have any experience with a stabilizer, it'll be a while before you can get good, usable footage. Many users will express their frustrations with it (mostly because of a misunderstanding of the physics involved).

Also, a 0.8x lens is not really wide at all and, in my opinion, is not worth the extra weight. I would look at a wider conversion lens like a 0.5x or a semi-fisheye like a 0.38x.

I think a good first investment would be in getting a wide angle and a monopod. With these two tools, you can get wide coverage, like group shots, as Don mentioned, or scenery shots, and the monopod will give you more agility and enable you to get otherwise impossible shots.

If you do look at a stabilizer, I highly recommend Terry Thompson's Indicam PILOT sled. He is on the forums here in the stabilizer section and he is a really nice guy who is very helpful and service oriented :)

Waldemar Winkler · September 19th, 2006, 06:30 PM

With a small camera like the SONY 2000 series or the Canon GL series a wide angle attachment is essential. Most users of wide angle attachments who have chosen to comment on video forums simply state they never take the lens off the camera. It is just too valuable.
Important in this is whether or not the attachment lens allows full use of the built-in lens to its full native focal length. The Canon WA-58 allows this. Other lenses do this as well, but not all. Examine the fine print for assurance on any product before purchasing. SONY owners also give the Canon attachment lens very good reviews. I use the Canon WA-58 on my still camera as well with very good results.
If you have a good sense of balance the WA lens will do much more for you than a stabilizer. If there is any question in this regard, attach a monopod to your camera. Attach an inexpensive ball head to the monopod for more flexibility.
Note that all wide angle attachments will introduce distortion to straight lines. the question is, "how much distortion will you be willing to endure"? For me, a .5x is the most I can tolerate with video shooting 4:3 while I am willing to deal with.3x on one of my still cameras at the same aspect ratio.

Tom Hardwick · September 20th, 2006, 12:17 AM

Just to say that not all wide-angle converters distort straight lines Waldemar, and one of mine (the Aspheron) actually corrects the barrel distortion inherent in Sony's zoom at the wide end.

tom.

Sheldon Blais · September 20th, 2006, 09:09 AM

My suggestion is to get a monopod....and a fluid head tripod....

Stephen Claus · September 20th, 2006, 10:01 PM

I agree you'll get a lot more use from a WA lens than from a stabilizer. I also agree that a .8x is kind of a waste. You should go for a .7x or wider if you can tolerate the barrel distortion. If the distortion really bothers you, Mr. Tom Hardwick has a solution.

Having said all that, I think a monopod should be at the top of your list. I tried to get a monopod and a stabilizer together with the Varizoom Flowpod. I haven't actually used it as a stabilzer yet, mostly because I haven't figured out how it works! (Guess I need a physics lesson.) But I love the monopod! I find that just the inertia of all that weight (FX1, big battery, shotgun mic, light with another big battery, etc.--and the flowpod itself) stabilizes hand held shots pretty well. And my arm doesn't get too tired holding all that weight because I can rest it on the monopod!

I don't think there are too many people that could hold 8-10 lbs of camera+accessories for a 6 hour wedding shoot and not get tired and shaky (and back achy!) At some point you need a monopod and/or a tripod. Screw the stabilizer! Stabilizers are a "special effect" for short term use only.

If I knew what I know now I would have bought a straight monopod with a quick release so I could quickly go back and forth from a tripod.

Sorry for the rant.

Joe Allen Rosenberger · September 20th, 2006, 10:09 PM

dante....if you do not already own a couple decent wireless mic units.....you should, they are a must.

also...be carefull with spending deposit money from new clients too soon, they could cancel on you for any reason and if your contract states deposit money gets returned to client....you could get yourself in a bind if you already spent the money.

good luck

Peter Chung · September 21st, 2006, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Claus

Stabilizers are a "special effect" for short term use only.

If I knew what I know now I would have bought a straight monopod with a quick release so I could quickly go back and forth from a tripod.

I agree with Stephen that stabilizer footage should be used sparingly for maximum impact. You don't want to always be moving around especially when you are waiting for that "special moment" to happen.

I would say that a good monopod with quick release is a better initial investment than delving straight for a stabilizer. A stabilizer takes a lot of practice to get decent footage.

Peter Jefferson · September 21st, 2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Waters

Alright folks. Got a wedding for a bit over $1200 dollars.

There are a few things that would come in handy:

Steadicam: http://tinyurl.com/zlft4
Wide angle lens: http://tinyurl.com/btgru

But which one of them I'll be getting a $600 deposit

Camera I'll be using is the Sony VX2100.

None, go grab a wirelss mic kit my friend..

worry about the others later... grab some sticks a decent head (evena manfrotto 501 is ok... ) with practice u wont need a 503.. get a manfrotto monopod and use the one mount for monopod and tripod... so u can fly around and still have stable shots...

after that.. go buy a light or somethng.. WA and flowpods are all wow factor accessories..

ur primary role is to archive the day.. do THAT properly and therell be plenty money coming in for u to buy all those other goodies..

for now, with that cam, i reckon EWG2 with am MK2 mic head, and a shotgun... SennMK300 or Rode Videomic (stereo or mono, dunmatta.. ) maybe even a beachtek adapter..

Marcus Marchesseault · September 22nd, 2006, 11:03 PM

Darn good advice here!

I like these suggestions:

Monopod and decent tripod - get same quick-release head. There is always a quick-release adapter for common Bogen/Manfrotto heads so you can have the same plate work for both mono and tripod. I use the 503 head and an associate uses a 501 with no problem.

At the same time as purchasing a monopod, get a GOOD wireles lav mic system! Don't get a cheap system or it will bite you like a hyena/pitbull hybrid with rabies. Spend at least $500 on something like a Sennheiser UHF system (G2?). I don't use a shotgun since most of the audio at the reception happens at a podium. I put the lav transmitter on the podium with the mic attached to the room mic.

Get good cases for all your equipment. I have a Doskocil that is similar to a pelican 1600 series. The airtight system has preserved my VX2000 since 1999 in Hawaii's humid environment. I have never had a problem with my camera except for a single partial dropout that lasted for about 1/4 of a second. I think it was the fault of the tape. Perfect performance for over 6 years is worth spending the money on a good case.

Next, get the big Sony battery for your camera. You should already have an extra battery, but the big sony Infolithiums last all day on the VX/PD cameras. It is nice to be able to almost forget about your battery. It is also nice to have a battery charger so you don't need to leave your expensive camera out and plugged into the wall. I use a cheap old Hi8 camera that uses the same batteries as the VX2000.

Get a cleaning tape in case you get the "insert cleaning tape message". I got that once on my TRV900, probably due to moving from a cool room to a humid area.

After that, I think a WA adapter is nice for establishing shots at the church and wide shots of the head table at the reception. I use the Canon WA58 (58mm threads) and it is just fine. It cost just under $200.

With the VX2100 being so good at low-light, I rarely use a light but you should have a small one just in case.

After getting all this, a backup camera is nice to have. I used a TRV900 since it had the same battery as my VX2000. I ran a firewire to it for real-time backups. I plan to get a new camera and a hard-drive recording system so I have redundancy of my primary camera footage. I mainly do two-camera shoots and have since sold my TRV900.

Waldemar Winkler · September 23rd, 2006, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

Just to say that not all wide-angle converters distort straight lines Waldemar, and one of mine (the Aspheron) actually corrects the barrel distortion inherent in Sony's zoom at the wide end.

tom.

Really? That is good news indeed. I did not believe a product like this was available. Is "Aspheron" the brand name or a specific model? If so, what is the brand name?

Tom Hardwick · September 24th, 2006, 12:37 AM

It is indeed good news and I've been spreading it on these forums for some years now. The Aspheron is made by Bolex (of 16 mm film camera fame) in Switzerland, and you can buy from them direct. I bought my second one just 3 months ago.

The Aspheron you want (they have made a few different versions) is the one designated ''Aspheron super wide-angle 6.5 mm Multicoated for vario Switar 12.5 - 100 mm''. It's a single element glass aspheric, beautifully made and beautifully Zeiss T* multicoated. Costs about the same as a bendy 0.65x Century.

This has an 85 mm attachment thread and will need a special adapter to take that down to 72 mm (for the Z1) or 58 mm (for the PD/VX, say). If you go here:

http://www.fortvir.net/gallery/v/tom-s-photo-album/

I've got lots of demo pictures. A cheaper alternative is the Schneider Kreutznach Ultrawide II, and you can see what they sell here:

http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/ka...a/b_optike.php

These are high pressure injection mouldings and unfortunately are uncoated, but I have two of these and they work well. Need to be hooded carefully though.

tom.

September 19th, 2006, 01:46 PM	#1
Dante Waters Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: NY, NY Posts: 217	Up coming Wedding Alright folks. Got a wedding for a bit over $1200 dollars. There are a few things that would come in handy: Steadicam: http://tinyurl.com/zlft4 Wide angle lens: http://tinyurl.com/btgru But which one of them I'll be getting a $600 deposit Camera I'll be using is the Sony VX2100.

September 19th, 2006, 06:30 PM	#5
Waldemar Winkler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Durango, Colorado, USA Posts: 711	With a small camera like the SONY 2000 series or the Canon GL series a wide angle attachment is essential. Most users of wide angle attachments who have chosen to comment on video forums simply state they never take the lens off the camera. It is just too valuable. Important in this is whether or not the attachment lens allows full use of the built-in lens to its full native focal length. The Canon WA-58 allows this. Other lenses do this as well, but not all. Examine the fine print for assurance on any product before purchasing. SONY owners also give the Canon attachment lens very good reviews. I use the Canon WA-58 on my still camera as well with very good results. If you have a good sense of balance the WA lens will do much more for you than a stabilizer. If there is any question in this regard, attach a monopod to your camera. Attach an inexpensive ball head to the monopod for more flexibility. Note that all wide angle attachments will introduce distortion to straight lines. the question is, "how much distortion will you be willing to endure"? For me, a .5x is the most I can tolerate with video shooting 4:3 while I am willing to deal with.3x on one of my still cameras at the same aspect ratio. __________________ Waldemar

September 19th, 2006, 02:16 PM	#2
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	The 0872 Sony wide-angle lens will work ok on your VX2100 if you also buy a 58>72 step up ring, but I'd not advise it as a combo. For starters the 0.8x is very mild, and the 2100 really cries out for a 0.5x to give you some decent wide options. Then again the lens is pretty expensive, though if you plan to get an FX1 next it would be a good buy. tom.

September 19th, 2006, 02:28 PM	#3
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Century Optics (expensive) and KenkoPro line (less expensive) offer a .65 both work quite well. I have both and use the Kenko Pro more than the CO-make sure you go to the PRO line for the Kenko. They come in screw and bayonet mounts-I prefer the bayonet. As you can tell from my post I feel the WA is more important than the "stedicam" at this time. First you may need if for larger groups, I use mine quite a bit for reception dancing, and second the glidecam, steadicam devices, which are great tools require quite a bit of practicing before you use it on a paying gig. Personally I think right now you'd get more use out of the WA but that's just me. Don

September 19th, 2006, 03:27 PM	#4
Peter Chung Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 220	If you don't have any experience with a stabilizer, it'll be a while before you can get good, usable footage. Many users will express their frustrations with it (mostly because of a misunderstanding of the physics involved). Also, a 0.8x lens is not really wide at all and, in my opinion, is not worth the extra weight. I would look at a wider conversion lens like a 0.5x or a semi-fisheye like a 0.38x. I think a good first investment would be in getting a wide angle and a monopod. With these two tools, you can get wide coverage, like group shots, as Don mentioned, or scenery shots, and the monopod will give you more agility and enable you to get otherwise impossible shots. If you do look at a stabilizer, I highly recommend Terry Thompson's Indicam PILOT sled. He is on the forums here in the stabilizer section and he is a really nice guy who is very helpful and service oriented :)

September 20th, 2006, 12:17 AM	#6
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Just to say that not all wide-angle converters distort straight lines Waldemar, and one of mine (the Aspheron) actually corrects the barrel distortion inherent in Sony's zoom at the wide end. tom.

September 20th, 2006, 09:09 AM	#7
Sheldon Blais Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 114	My suggestion is to get a monopod....and a fluid head tripod....

September 20th, 2006, 10:01 PM	#8
Stephen Claus Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Rochester, NH Posts: 66	I agree you'll get a lot more use from a WA lens than from a stabilizer. I also agree that a .8x is kind of a waste. You should go for a .7x or wider if you can tolerate the barrel distortion. If the distortion really bothers you, Mr. Tom Hardwick has a solution. Having said all that, I think a monopod should be at the top of your list. I tried to get a monopod and a stabilizer together with the Varizoom Flowpod. I haven't actually used it as a stabilzer yet, mostly because I haven't figured out how it works! (Guess I need a physics lesson.) But I love the monopod! I find that just the inertia of all that weight (FX1, big battery, shotgun mic, light with another big battery, etc.--and the flowpod itself) stabilizes hand held shots pretty well. And my arm doesn't get too tired holding all that weight because I can rest it on the monopod! I don't think there are too many people that could hold 8-10 lbs of camera+accessories for a 6 hour wedding shoot and not get tired and shaky (and back achy!) At some point you need a monopod and/or a tripod. Screw the stabilizer! Stabilizers are a "special effect" for short term use only. If I knew what I know now I would have bought a straight monopod with a quick release so I could quickly go back and forth from a tripod. Sorry for the rant.

September 20th, 2006, 10:09 PM	#9
Joe Allen Rosenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 419	dante....if you do not already own a couple decent wireless mic units.....you should, they are a must. also...be carefull with spending deposit money from new clients too soon, they could cancel on you for any reason and if your contract states deposit money gets returned to client....you could get yourself in a bind if you already spent the money. good luck

September 22nd, 2006, 11:03 PM	#12
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Darn good advice here! I like these suggestions: Monopod and decent tripod - get same quick-release head. There is always a quick-release adapter for common Bogen/Manfrotto heads so you can have the same plate work for both mono and tripod. I use the 503 head and an associate uses a 501 with no problem. At the same time as purchasing a monopod, get a GOOD wireles lav mic system! Don't get a cheap system or it will bite you like a hyena/pitbull hybrid with rabies. Spend at least $500 on something like a Sennheiser UHF system (G2?). I don't use a shotgun since most of the audio at the reception happens at a podium. I put the lav transmitter on the podium with the mic attached to the room mic. Get good cases for all your equipment. I have a Doskocil that is similar to a pelican 1600 series. The airtight system has preserved my VX2000 since 1999 in Hawaii's humid environment. I have never had a problem with my camera except for a single partial dropout that lasted for about 1/4 of a second. I think it was the fault of the tape. Perfect performance for over 6 years is worth spending the money on a good case. Next, get the big Sony battery for your camera. You should already have an extra battery, but the big sony Infolithiums last all day on the VX/PD cameras. It is nice to be able to almost forget about your battery. It is also nice to have a battery charger so you don't need to leave your expensive camera out and plugged into the wall. I use a cheap old Hi8 camera that uses the same batteries as the VX2000. Get a cleaning tape in case you get the "insert cleaning tape message". I got that once on my TRV900, probably due to moving from a cool room to a humid area. After that, I think a WA adapter is nice for establishing shots at the church and wide shots of the head table at the reception. I use the Canon WA58 (58mm threads) and it is just fine. It cost just under $200. With the VX2100 being so good at low-light, I rarely use a light but you should have a small one just in case. After getting all this, a backup camera is nice to have. I used a TRV900 since it had the same battery as my VX2000. I ran a firewire to it for real-time backups. I plan to get a new camera and a hard-drive recording system so I have redundancy of my primary camera footage. I mainly do two-camera shoots and have since sold my TRV900.

September 24th, 2006, 12:37 AM	#14
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	It is indeed good news and I've been spreading it on these forums for some years now. The Aspheron is made by Bolex (of 16 mm film camera fame) in Switzerland, and you can buy from them direct. I bought my second one just 3 months ago. The Aspheron you want (they have made a few different versions) is the one designated ''Aspheron super wide-angle 6.5 mm Multicoated for vario Switar 12.5 - 100 mm''. It's a single element glass aspheric, beautifully made and beautifully Zeiss T* multicoated. Costs about the same as a bendy 0.65x Century. This has an 85 mm attachment thread and will need a special adapter to take that down to 72 mm (for the Z1) or 58 mm (for the PD/VX, say). If you go here: http://www.fortvir.net/gallery/v/tom-s-photo-album/ I've got lots of demo pictures. A cheaper alternative is the Schneider Kreutznach Ultrawide II, and you can see what they sell here: http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/ka...a/b_optike.php These are high pressure injection mouldings and unfortunately are uncoated, but I have two of these and they work well. Need to be hooded carefully though. tom.