Photographer Issues?

[Jonathan Gossett]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum, and to wedding videography, and I was wondering if anyone had some advice on how to deal with rudeness from photographers. I recently shot a couple of weddings and I was shocked at some of the inconsiderate actions of the photographers at each wedding. That was another thing that shocked me, the fact that the photogs were double teaming. That seems a little pointless and excessive to me. Now I can see the need for two videographers manning cameras, but one good photographer should have no problem getting all the important shots of the day.

Not only this but several times they blocked my shots by standing right in the middle of the isle while the bride and her father, and later the groom, walked down the isle, and they also deliberately stepped in front of my cameras to take shots. Needless to say I had to do a lot of creative editing for both weddings. Now I'm a pretty easygoing guy, and I went out of my way to be courteous with them, introducing myself to them before the wedding, volunteering to move around if I was in their way, etc... but apparently it went in one ear and out the other.

So now my question is what is the best way to handle people like this? I know this is absolutely not the case with all photographers, as I have dealt with some really great ones, but I just wanted to know if anyone else has had these issues, and what advice you could give me that would help out. I know there is a thread out there about photographers, which I read, but I would like some specific advice about what to say, do, etc... that would help smooth things over or at least to get the shots the b & g are paying me to get.
Thanks!

[Keith Loh]

I know you are new but not two weeks ago we had a huge thread devoted to this very question. Please do a search on this.

EDIT: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...rapher+wedding

[Jonathan Gossett]

Thanks! I'll check that out.

[Nathan James]

Jonathan,

Hi I am new to the boards as well...and also the the world of videography. My wife and I own our own Photography business and we do 100+ weddings a year....and have worked with many videographers.....and for the most part we have not had any problems.

I think you need to realize that the Photog is not the enemy....we both are being paid by the B&G to capture the day with elegance and to not interfere with the day. I could say the same about videographers...that they are rude and got in my shot or whatever...because there have been times when things didnt mesh well.....(thus that is why we have added Video to our business...becuase we know how we work....where we want to stand...what angles and such we like....We can offer the best of both worlds to the B&G and they don't have to worry about nit picky stuff like this.

Some Photogs I guess could be rude and I have heard some wierd stories of them stopping the ceremony to get a shot and stuff like this....but I can only speak for myself and how we run our company.....we do not interefer with the day.....we try to be inconspicous.....and yes sometimes we do have 2 photographers on site. If the B&G purchase the package that comes with 2 Photogs then that is what they want....regardless of weather you think it is not needed or does not serve a purpose. Just like you can not catch everything that happens with one camera.....the same goes with stills....sometimes 2 is better. 2 photogs at the Ceremony and Reception can be a beautiful thing....as long as they are not the pushy type. We have never received one bad comment in the 4 years we have been shooting weddings.....our business has tripled each year as a matter of fact.

Now when it comes to working together...you are just going to have to do the best you can......I think you need to realize that the center isle does not have the videographers name written all over it....nor does it have the Photogs name all over it. You must workd together...and realize that the Photog's shots are just as important as your shots....(The photogs need to realize this as well)

If stills were not important to the B&G they wouoldnt have hired a Photog...so if you both are there then the B&G wants both.....

I always try to make it a point to walk behind the Videographer...and to team up before the ceremony to say "Hey this is where I am going to be...and I like to get shots from here and we work out a plan to not get in eachother way...but to work together.....but this isnt a perfect world and it doesnt always work out right.....so for me the best choice was to just expand and offer video as well.

I know you are not trying to whine and complain but rather get some advice from others in the industry but from what I can tell you is....just do your best....it's not all about you...it's not all about the Photog....it's not all about "I always stand here!" It's about making the day a beautiful one to remember for the B&G.....IMO......

I mean we could all rant about something.....The Caterer, The Wedding Planner said I can do this and that, the preist wont let me use flash......blah blah blah......Listen....after 400+ weddings you learn rather quickly that yes...you like certain things and start to have a little ritual....but listen man...every one is different....some Brides are gr8...some are Satan.....some days it works...and some days it don't....just roll with it....and do your best....the gr8 thing about a wedding is you see it all.....if it can happen...it will happen at a wedding.....Not one is alike....so don't stress to much about the small stuff...just do your thing and in the end you will have a awesome product that you can deliver to the B&G and you don't get a reputation amongst your fellow peers in the industry as a whiner but as a cool Video guy to work with....

but hey this is all just my humble oppinion

Nathan

[Jonathan Gossett]

Nathan,

Thanks for your input from a photographers p.o.v. I didn't intend my original post to come across as whiny or nitpicky, if it seems that way I do apologize. I have a great amount of respect for professional photographers, like yourself, who are courteous and respect others in the industry. One reason that I had issue with the fact that there were two photographers was because they were taking exactly the same shots, side by side, or either taking turns, which in my opinion, could have been done by one person because there was no creativity involved in their shots, which I have seen.
I know the center isle doesn't have my name on it, but I'm getting paid to get my shot too, and there is no way I could have shot around this guy's head right in front of the brides face, blocking her all the way down the isle. Most photographers that I have worked with either stand to the side of the isle or kneel. Please don't take offense to my post or think that I just like to sit around and complain about mean 'ole photographers all day. I do handle myself professionaly with clients and photographers alike. I just wanted to know if I should assert myself in certain situations, or just back of and let the b&g deal with it. Thanks again for your reply. I really do appreciate it.

[Nathan James]

Jonathan,

I didn't take offense to your post....and please take non from mine.

For 2 photgraphers standing in the same shot taking a picture is really uncalled for and not creative at all I agree....the only reasons I can think of why they were doing this is...1...the 2nd Photog was in trainging or ...possibly trying to get the KISS....but even it that case....when we are shooting with to Photogs...we normally have 4 cameras set up with different lenses ....so we can get those different angles and different lengths...and we never stand next to eachother except on rare ocassions where you are both going after the same shot....but even then you quickly get your shot and move.

As for asserting yourself...yes I think you should do so...but not in a pushy type of way.....like you said...you are getting paid to capture the B&G's day......so yes by all means do whatever it takes to get the shot...I know you know what I mean.....We don't want to be part of the cermony but rather an extension of it.....when the B&G doesn't have to think about Oh I hope they are getting this and that shot...then we are doing our job.....The B&G have enough stress to deal with on the big day than to have to hear that the Photog and The Video guy are not getting along. I wouldnt even bring it up to the wedding planner. If worse comes to worse speak directly to the Photog...

Also one thing I have learned is that 90% of the time a wedding planner is involved the B&G will not stick up for themselves...(especially if they are a young couple) the B&G will cower when it comes to making a hard decission...ecspecially when the wedding planner enters the picture....So to let the B&G deal with it...you might be waiting along time.....lol

I wont name names but I shot a wedding for a great young couple that got married at a well known Martha Stewart type of gals place.....She made sure she let everyone know that SHE was running the show.....all the vendors had some kind of run in with her.....She thought that her past and knowledge ruled the day...and the B&G totally coward to her every demand....She wouldnt let them take pictures....they had to eat NOW...they had to do this...and that....Vendors had to do this and that....and the DJ had to set up here in a small conrer and wasnt allowed to go past here...and they shut off her mics in the middle of announcing the wedding party...cause the planners husband thought it was to loud....well thats because you made the DJ stick her equipement inside the house way far away from where to guests were sitting outside.....Pictures totally got pushed out of the picture until the day ended I finally took the couple out for shots.....and I just played it cool....because there was nothing I could do....if the Bride wasnt going to stand up to the planner and say hey..."I want to take my pictures now" which she said she wanted to do....until the wedding planner step in the room and said..."Uh Pictures???" very rudely..."I have dinner ready to eat!" and the Bride just like coward away.

So what I am trying to say here Jonathan is expect the unexpected because you never know what you are going to get.......You can just be as prepared as you can be...and expect somethings to not go your way.....Overcome and adapt my friend. If its going to happen it will happen at a wedding.

Nathan

[Peter Jefferson]

maybe your being "too nice"
if u hold yourself accordingly, they WILL recognise that your not a pushover and wont even bother trying to stuff up ur shots...

i think this subject has ben exhausted IMO

[Bob Harotunian]

Originally Posted by Nathan James

Jonathan,
I always try to make it a point to walk behind the Videographer...and to team up before the ceremony to say "Hey this is where I am going to be...and I like to get shots from here and we work out a plan to not get in eachother way...but to work together.....
Nathan

Wish we could work with you or photographers like you. In 4 years, not once has a photographer initiated a simple introduction or offered to coordinate scenes. Instead, most approach the wedding as if it's their production and the videoguy a mere annoyance.

At my niece's recent wedding, the photgrapher ruined the ceremony. Even though he knew we were taping he stood directly in front of the B&G during every important scene. He continued to take multiple shots with multiple cameras and even dropped a roll of film all while standing directly in front of them. Want proof? Let me know and I'll post frames from this horror.

[Kevin Shaw]

Jonathan: it's a fact of life as a wedding videographer that you need to be prepared to work around the photographers, who are ultimately just trying to do their job the best they can. Unfortunately this often means they're trying to get the same shots you are and sometimes from a position which blocks your view, so you have to have a strategy for dealing with that. In some situations like a wedding processional it pays to figure out where the photographer is going to be and stand next to them; in other situations careful camera placement and extra-tall tripods can be useful. I've also learned not to get too panicked when a photographer is in my shot, and not spend too much time trying to edit them out afterwards. If their actions cause them to show up frequently in the video, that's just part of the record of the wedding day as it occurred.

It would be nice if photographers would respect the needs of videographers more, but do a little photography and you'll realize it's hard to keep that in mind and still get the pictures you need. So just plan around them, and try to be polite even when the photographers seem annoying.

P.S. Sometimes when I'm only a few feet from someone I'm recording and a photographer still insists on walking in front of me, I'll move in even closer until it's physically difficult for them to keep doing that. It's rare I have to do so, but sometimes it's necessary.

[Michael Cassidy]

In recent years, I've noticed Photographers, especially those working in pairs, seem to be "out to spoil everyone elses' shot", guest's shots, mainly, but we get to suffer as well. It is getting worse, no mistake!
I think the advent of digital, plus a trend for students to think "that's better than working" has brought the photographers standards down. The gentlemen photographers, I worked alongside for years, are now, sadly a dying breed.

Mike.

[Enrique Galvis]

Welcome to the wonderful world of wedding videos Jonathan.
One time when I mentioned to a photogeapher that he was getting in my way all the time in a very snippy tone he replied "You gotta a zoom lense don't cha?...".
I heeded his advide then and have been getting along with them out of my way since.
For the most part photogs are decent folks and like with anyone else you will always come across an exception or two, so relax and enjoy the day.