Freelance Rates?

Mick Isdes · July 29th, 2006, 12:32 AM

Hey Tom,
I hear you got a job opening. I'll come by w/ my gear, but your paying my 300 + gear rental and that's 250....USD right? j/k!~

Ron Fabienke · July 29th, 2006, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Allen Rosenberger

These rates with rentals also is out of reach IMO. I have never heard nor seen anyone making 500.00 plus for freelancing cam op at weddings.

That seems surprising for me to hear considering you're doing business in S. California where I also work. Granted, I've been doing event work and weddings for a little over 20 years and the free-lance rates have risen, but the 15 or so videographers I know that graduated from the AG 450/456s to 3 chip variations of SVHS acquisition and then to the 1/2" DVCam DSR 300/300A on, or even the 1/3" 250 have been making at least $550 for 8 hours work for a few years now. Of course with all the requisite quality wireless gear, sticks and shooting chops. Some, I know get more. And more, if the day winds up being longer, plus the tape is replaced. Maybe the pricing of the companies we shoot for factors in as I think most of them are in $3,000 or higher range for 1 camera to 5,000 or higher with 2 cameras, depending on options range and turning out some great edited productions.

Presently my favorite company is trying to figure out his pricing both for clients who are now being sold HD, and what bump up in rate he will pay to entice us to buy the Panny HVX200 gear as they already have 3 great looking jobs shot with them. At present he's been sending an assistant along with a laptop to download the 8gb cards during the course of the shoot. This is the format they decided to go with over HDV. Just better looking and the audio quality and slo-mo capability and not having to take, I guess, over 20 hours to run a Q-time conversion.

I love and still need my 300A and do not want to part with it, so my recently purchased backup / 1st "HD" camcorder Sony A1U is going to have to be sold and even more money spent. Most of us are not thrilled about losing the great focussing & shoulder rested comfort and balance of the full size cameras. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed the rate increase incentive jumps considerably.

$300-400 an 8 hour day for a decent shooter with his own gear was being paid like 10 years ago in S. Cal area. In most other parts of the country of course I would expect the rates to be considerably lower. Just another perspective for this conversation.

Joe Allen Rosenberger · July 29th, 2006, 01:45 AM

Ron, I recieved about 70 resumes in a few days....and most of them are experienced camera ops who work in televison who are looking for extra work. THey did not squak at 300-400 per day one bit.

So cal is flooded with cam ops....and theres a lot of talent out there.

Dont get me wrong......I think a quality cam op is worth way more than what most event production companies can pay.

THe fact is...."most" other event production companies do not pay anything near 500 bucks for wedding events.
Sure....theres a few select companies who charge 4-5k for a wedding video package and may pay upwards of 500 for a shoot but they are real slim in so cal.

I know of so many "feature movie" camera operators....who have shot lots of big name movies who are out of work part in due to hollywood taking work to canada.

Like i said before.......who ever does not like the rates of what a particular co. may pay......they can stay home and watch tv. There's not a shortage of very talented shooters who want the work.

again....this thread is not really helping anyone......it only gets people ramblin and rambiln on. If you dont like the rates where ever you are out there people......dont work, or wait and wait for the 500.00 paying event gigs.

PS. please tell me where the 500.00 event shoots are so i can send my resume and reel too.

cheers

Ron Fabienke · July 29th, 2006, 02:58 AM

I'm not saying $300-400 to pay a shooter who is using all of your equipment is not fair. Sure it is. But if the shooter is really good and has his own equipment of the kind of quality that I described, then of course it is fair to charge in addition and everyone I know currently is getting $550. And during busy seasons we get scrambled after with these companies' multiple jobs per weekend and so many 2 camera shoots being sold.

Yes, I am shooting with some select great companies, but there are a lot of lesser companies paying just as much for me to shoot and the other top notch "event videographers" I know. Maybe it's just us valley guys. No, I know some guys on the "Hollywood" side of the hills as well. Hell, any photographer also selling a video package that hires us, never "squawks" about the rate as you like to say of your camera people that you seem to have such a "dime a dozen" attitude toward. Not to mention that many of us do our own productions and surely have no qualms paying another high quality camera person with high quality gear the same price as we get ourselves. You, personally, may not know many companies able to afford or camera persons with gear getting over $500, but you're just flat out wrong to make blanket statements about it being "rare".

So, to recap, the higher end companies (maybe many more than you'd like to admit exist), and certainly the select few at the top, and photographers charging maybe $2,500 for video, and other videographers doing' high quality productions of their own......all willing to pay $500-550. I know it for a fact. I get it. If I'm booked they pay someone else. We're talking "WITH HIGH QUALITY" gear supplied for crissakes. Most every serious videographer I know has to have over $10,000 invested in camera, sound quipment, batteries, lights, backup camera, tripod, etc, etc, etc.

You don't have to be a high end company to be willing to pay $500 in order to be able to gross another job net income over $2,000. If you're charging minimum of what you should be. Yeah, cameramen / producers do get hungry, but the difference with us is maybe our profits go down while we get less per hour doing the post production. But $2,000 or more is $2,000 more than we would not have had if we couldn't have taken the job. And we didn't lowball the other fully equipped videographer in the process, or have inferior gear shoot our own production than what we would shot with for our client ourselves.

Joe Allen Rosenberger · July 29th, 2006, 03:10 AM

this is getting weaker and weaker.....what a joke this entire thread has been.

its all yours man....have at it.

Steve House · July 29th, 2006, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Allen Rosenberger

....
PLUS....what "freelance"...wedding cam op invests 15K in gear......this industry is 90% hacks out there that try to cut every corner they can so 15K in gear....is also again not reality, ,,,

I didn't say every freelancer invested 15 kilobucks - I cited a range of $5000 to $15000 or better and didn't assume that all of the freelancers have invested the maximum amount. That assumes pro level gear of course - I would expect the guy to bring more to the party than sub-$1000 single-chip consumer camcorder - But if you take a GL2, PD170, or better, plus a good pair of sticks and a professional grade fluid head and you've approaching the border into that range, Make the camera an XL2 or FX1 you're headed toward the midlands, while a Z1U or XLH1 will take you well into the upper part of that range. And that's before you add any audio or other gear.

The freelancers compensation has to pay for his equipment plus pay for his rent and beans just like your day rate has to pay for your equipment plus your living expenses. Why is that such a hard concept?

Thomas Smet · July 29th, 2006, 10:57 AM

How much more are you guys charging clients to add that extra shooter? How much are you making by sending out that guy/girl to shoot an event for you where you do not even show up?

Hourly is the only fair way to pay somebody for shooting. There is no way around that. Any other profession you can name off gets paid by the hour.

Some weddings may be 5 hours long while some may be 10 hours long. Is it fair to pay somebody the same amount for double the amount of time?

Let me ask all of you guys if you charge your clients more for longer events? If a wedding will last twice as long don't you get paid more for it? Shouldn't the people working for you also get paid more?

You also have to think about distance. How far away will that shooter have to travel? If it is an event out of your normal region and you are charging the client for distance shouldn't the person you send out to that event get that money for the distance shoot?

I'm surprised some of you guys have not started hiring illigals yet for $25.00 a day.

It really shocks me that some of you want to charge clients more by doing multiple camera shoots and make more money by shooting many events in one day but yet you want to pay the people working for you as little as you can.

When I hire people to shoot for me I pay them hourly. I also change the rate of pay based on experience and if they use their own equipment. If there is distance involved I pay them for that as well as any parking or toll charges. Some of these events force the shooter to pay $25.00 for parking.

Stephen Vallis · December 24th, 2006, 03:40 PM

I know a studio that supplies their own cameras (PD 170). Their pay for a full wedding (Home -1st dance until 17:00) £250.00 ($489.563) They also pay £250.00 for a full edit of the wedding.

I am supprised, I expected the pay in the US to be way higher!

Joe Allen Rosenberger · December 24th, 2006, 07:34 PM

wanna make more money or get what "you" think youre worth.....well, ive got the solution for you......start your own biz or company.....set your own rates, then just maybe you will get what you think youre worth, until then......who cares.

Jason Robinson · December 25th, 2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Allen Rosenberger

huh???? what mechanic is making 60.00 to 80.00 per hour???

so, what mechanic do you know that is making over 100,000.00 per year, that is airline pilot pay or close to it?

that is way off.

keep in mind that this is only the case for a mechanic that owns the shop or does free lance work, not your schucks workers. And just like wedding video people, when they aren't working for a client they are not earning money. So their hourly is not bad.

But Plumbers get the real rip off. But may be that is just my experience with a bunch of corrupt plumbers.

jason

Scott Jaco · December 26th, 2006, 06:03 AM

If a company wants to supply ALL the gear, then $250/day is very reasonable.

However, I will not bring 10K worth of gear (HD-100, X-less, lighting, tripod) for that price. I can't afford to put that kind of wear & tear on my gear for nothing.

When you hire me as a freelancer, you are getting a cameraman and my equipment. It is a 2 part equation.

I understand that there are many cheap guys out there with PD150's with no accessories that will do the job for less but I'm not one of those guys. I do a job correctly or I don't do it at all.

Yes, sometimes I sit at home and watch TV because I've turned down a gig but after doing several 8hr+ weddings, I just don't want to do that much work for such a small stipend.

People charge what they think their service is worth. Maybe you should raise your rates?

Joe Allen Rosenberger · December 26th, 2006, 05:05 PM

scott- how has the hd100 been for you in the wedding world??? this is the camera or i will problably get the latest version, but im curious to know how your jvc has been for you in weddings and in general???
thanks- joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Jaco

If a company wants to supply ALL the gear, then $250/day is very reasonable.

However, I will not bring 10K worth of gear (HD-100, X-less, lighting, tripod) for that price. I can't afford to put that kind of wear & tear on my gear for nothing.

When you hire me as a freelancer, you are getting a cameraman and my equipment. It is a 2 part equation.

I understand that there are many cheap guys out there with PD150's with no accessories that will do the job for less but I'm not one of those guys. I do a job correctly or I don't do it at all.

Yes, sometimes I sit at home and watch TV because I've turned down a gig but after doing several 8hr+ weddings, I just don't want to do that much work for such a small stipend.

People charge what they think their service is worth. Maybe you should raise your rates?

Scott Jaco · December 27th, 2006, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Allen Rosenberger

scott- how has the hd100 been for you in the wedding world??? this is the camera or i will problably get the latest version, but im curious to know how your jvc has been for you in weddings and in general???
thanks- joe

It's fine. Some tips, always use the manual white balance when shooting indoors with your camera light. I also use Auto Gain w/ 9db MAX when shooting indoors. It really does put out a great picture.

I always shoot in HDV 720/30p then downsample to standard definition letterbox after editing. I hope we get this format war over with soon. I would like to offer people HD DVD disks or Blu Ray soon!

Edgar Akopyan · August 7th, 2008, 12:48 AM

I get paid $500 for wedding videography. I use a dsr 570 and also I use the easyrig 2.5. Also if they want the cammate crane I charge $1500 just for the cammate crane to come film give the tape and leave, and the company owner pays for the tape, and all other expenses. I dont charge him for camera rental fee or anything.

July 29th, 2006, 12:32 AM	#61
Mick Isdes Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HI Posts: 93	Hey Tom, I hear you got a job opening. I'll come by w/ my gear, but your paying my 300 + gear rental and that's 250....USD right? j/k!~ __________________ _________ Mick

August 7th, 2008, 12:48 AM	#74
Edgar Akopyan Tourist Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 2	I make $500 I get paid $500 for wedding videography. I use a dsr 570 and also I use the easyrig 2.5. Also if they want the cammate crane I charge $1500 just for the cammate crane to come film give the tape and leave, and the company owner pays for the tape, and all other expenses. I dont charge him for camera rental fee or anything.

July 29th, 2006, 01:45 AM	#63
Joe Allen Rosenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 419	Ron, I recieved about 70 resumes in a few days....and most of them are experienced camera ops who work in televison who are looking for extra work. THey did not squak at 300-400 per day one bit. So cal is flooded with cam ops....and theres a lot of talent out there. Dont get me wrong......I think a quality cam op is worth way more than what most event production companies can pay. THe fact is...."most" other event production companies do not pay anything near 500 bucks for wedding events. Sure....theres a few select companies who charge 4-5k for a wedding video package and may pay upwards of 500 for a shoot but they are real slim in so cal. I know of so many "feature movie" camera operators....who have shot lots of big name movies who are out of work part in due to hollywood taking work to canada. Like i said before.......who ever does not like the rates of what a particular co. may pay......they can stay home and watch tv. There's not a shortage of very talented shooters who want the work. again....this thread is not really helping anyone......it only gets people ramblin and rambiln on. If you dont like the rates where ever you are out there people......dont work, or wait and wait for the 500.00 paying event gigs. PS. please tell me where the 500.00 event shoots are so i can send my resume and reel too. cheers

July 29th, 2006, 02:58 AM	#64
Ron Fabienke Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 184	I'm not saying $300-400 to pay a shooter who is using all of your equipment is not fair. Sure it is. But if the shooter is really good and has his own equipment of the kind of quality that I described, then of course it is fair to charge in addition and everyone I know currently is getting $550. And during busy seasons we get scrambled after with these companies' multiple jobs per weekend and so many 2 camera shoots being sold. Yes, I am shooting with some select great companies, but there are a lot of lesser companies paying just as much for me to shoot and the other top notch "event videographers" I know. Maybe it's just us valley guys. No, I know some guys on the "Hollywood" side of the hills as well. Hell, any photographer also selling a video package that hires us, never "squawks" about the rate as you like to say of your camera people that you seem to have such a "dime a dozen" attitude toward. Not to mention that many of us do our own productions and surely have no qualms paying another high quality camera person with high quality gear the same price as we get ourselves. You, personally, may not know many companies able to afford or camera persons with gear getting over $500, but you're just flat out wrong to make blanket statements about it being "rare". So, to recap, the higher end companies (maybe many more than you'd like to admit exist), and certainly the select few at the top, and photographers charging maybe $2,500 for video, and other videographers doing' high quality productions of their own......all willing to pay $500-550. I know it for a fact. I get it. If I'm booked they pay someone else. We're talking "WITH HIGH QUALITY" gear supplied for crissakes. Most every serious videographer I know has to have over $10,000 invested in camera, sound quipment, batteries, lights, backup camera, tripod, etc, etc, etc. You don't have to be a high end company to be willing to pay $500 in order to be able to gross another job net income over $2,000. If you're charging minimum of what you should be. Yeah, cameramen / producers do get hungry, but the difference with us is maybe our profits go down while we get less per hour doing the post production. But $2,000 or more is $2,000 more than we would not have had if we couldn't have taken the job. And we didn't lowball the other fully equipped videographer in the process, or have inferior gear shoot our own production than what we would shot with for our client ourselves.

July 29th, 2006, 03:10 AM	#65
Joe Allen Rosenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 419	this is getting weaker and weaker.....what a joke this entire thread has been. its all yours man....have at it.

July 29th, 2006, 10:57 AM	#67
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	How much more are you guys charging clients to add that extra shooter? How much are you making by sending out that guy/girl to shoot an event for you where you do not even show up? Hourly is the only fair way to pay somebody for shooting. There is no way around that. Any other profession you can name off gets paid by the hour. Some weddings may be 5 hours long while some may be 10 hours long. Is it fair to pay somebody the same amount for double the amount of time? Let me ask all of you guys if you charge your clients more for longer events? If a wedding will last twice as long don't you get paid more for it? Shouldn't the people working for you also get paid more? You also have to think about distance. How far away will that shooter have to travel? If it is an event out of your normal region and you are charging the client for distance shouldn't the person you send out to that event get that money for the distance shoot? I'm surprised some of you guys have not started hiring illigals yet for $25.00 a day. It really shocks me that some of you want to charge clients more by doing multiple camera shoots and make more money by shooting many events in one day but yet you want to pay the people working for you as little as you can. When I hire people to shoot for me I pay them hourly. I also change the rate of pay based on experience and if they use their own equipment. If there is distance involved I pay them for that as well as any parking or toll charges. Some of these events force the shooter to pay $25.00 for parking.

December 24th, 2006, 03:40 PM	#68
Stephen Vallis New Boot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: East Sussex, UK Posts: 20	I know a studio that supplies their own cameras (PD 170). Their pay for a full wedding (Home -1st dance until 17:00) £250.00 ($489.563) They also pay £250.00 for a full edit of the wedding. I am supprised, I expected the pay in the US to be way higher!

December 24th, 2006, 07:34 PM	#69
Joe Allen Rosenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 419	wanna make more money or get what "you" think youre worth.....well, ive got the solution for you......start your own biz or company.....set your own rates, then just maybe you will get what you think youre worth, until then......who cares.

December 26th, 2006, 06:03 AM	#71
Scott Jaco Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 471	If a company wants to supply ALL the gear, then $250/day is very reasonable. However, I will not bring 10K worth of gear (HD-100, X-less, lighting, tripod) for that price. I can't afford to put that kind of wear & tear on my gear for nothing. When you hire me as a freelancer, you are getting a cameraman and my equipment. It is a 2 part equation. I understand that there are many cheap guys out there with PD150's with no accessories that will do the job for less but I'm not one of those guys. I do a job correctly or I don't do it at all. Yes, sometimes I sit at home and watch TV because I've turned down a gig but after doing several 8hr+ weddings, I just don't want to do that much work for such a small stipend. People charge what they think their service is worth. Maybe you should raise your rates?