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#46 | |
Trustee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,585
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Quote:
Steve's on the right track. It's demeaning to expect a fair rate for yourself, but try to lowball the crap out of anyone you hire. Those guys end up going around you to do the weddings themselves for $1000. Then we sit back and complain that they are undercutting everyone else and driving down prices. Well, what goes around comes around. No offense to anyone in particular... |
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#47 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 419
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ok....one last time because this really getting boring.
NOT TOO MANY FOLKS DISAGREE!!!!!!! BUT, its just NOT the real world...ESPECIALLY in WEDDING VIDEOGRAPHY! now you can keep this thread going and going and going and going like the energizer bunny, but just let it go. Quote:
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#48 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
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Quote:
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Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams! |
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#49 |
Trustee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,585
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Agreed Steve,
As well, if you pay a better rate, you get better and more reliable shooters, better footage, better videos, more referrals. You can raise the prices of your packages. It's shortsighted to think only of what you can save that day of the shoot. Recently the guys I shoot for tried out a new guy who was cheap, not much experience, but they figured, what the hell, he says he knows what he's doing. Well, he shot the whole wedding with no sound. Thanks god we had backup sound for the ceremony, but the prep and the reception were a write off. The guys who own the studio had to refund the whole package. No chance of referrals from that couple, and a good chance of being badmouthed, and with good reason. But hey, they saved $100 the day of the shoot, right? Sorry to keep the thread going, but I'm not bored yet... |
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#50 |
Capt. Quirk
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia
Posts: 3,596
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It's a good thing they didn't pay him what they were getting paid! This is my point, and that's all. If you are hiring a seasoned, bonafied veteran of video, the rate should reflect it. However, if you are doing all the legwork, and your new hire is unproven to you, be fair in pay, but at labor rates.
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www.SmokeWagonLeather.us |
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#51 | |
New Boot
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Plainfield, CT
Posts: 19
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Freelance Rates
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Ray Lane |
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#52 |
Major Player
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Jupiter, FL
Posts: 565
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A lot of jobs I do break down to about $50 per hour. I too would work for that rate.
Mark www.sharkvp.com |
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#53 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
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$40 to $50 per hour is certainly fair for labour. But "labour" just covers their skills as a camera operator, not the costs of any equipment they might provide. It's what they should earn if they operated a second camera that you owned or worked for s studio or production company, etc, and operated their employer's equipment. But if they are expected to provide a gear package as well, basically your company is renting their equipment from them and I think it's fair to add the prevailing market rate for your rental of the gear to the compensation for their labour. It's just as if you'd gone to a rental house for the extra gear you needed to get the coverage you promised the client and then hired them as an extra set of hands and eyes to operate it.
I teach computer applications for my day job. If you hire me to come into your company to teach 2 days of Project Management or Access Development, it's going to cost you X dollars. But if you don't have a training facility and computers for the students and I have to go hire a dozen laptops in order to conduct the course, you can bet I'll add those rental costs to the rate I'm charging you. I don't see why hiring someone as a camera operator to provide B-cam coverage for you should be any different.
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Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams! |
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#54 |
Major Player
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Jupiter, FL
Posts: 565
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True, if you're using you own gear on the shoot the rates are definitly higher per hour.
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#55 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 419
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So, where'a all the wedding videographers(hired help-not owners) making 500-600 per day ie. cam rate/op rate?????
Dream land...... Quote:
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#56 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
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Quote:
I would assume you have factored into the fees you quote your clients the costs of purchasing, maintaining, and replacing your equipment, at least if it's a business and not a hobby that's the way you ought to be doing it. Why are you so adamant that it's okay for you to do that as a freelance wedding video producer working for your client but it's not okay for the freelance videographer you hire to work for you to do the same? It's unreasonable to expect a professional to go invest $5000 to $15000 or more in the tools required to conduct his business and then to loan them to you for free. If all you expect is a "kid with a kam" to pick up some b-roll, then maybe. But if you expect a pro, one way or the other you gotta pay for the gear necessary to produce a professional job as well as the skills to do it.
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Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams! |
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#57 |
Trustee
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,719
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Usually it costs around $250.00 to just rent a camera for the day. You are basically getting the rental camera plus the person to run it for the same price. I also think it is a little unfair to pay a person for a shoot for the entire day since some weddings can go much longer than others.
While yes $50.00 an hour does seem like a lot you have to remember there is usually only 1 wedding a week for that shooter. This actually only works out to be $20,000 per year if they had a 8 hour wedding every single saturday of the year. Chances are there will not be a wedding for them every weekend so you maybe cut that in half. If you live in a region that actually has a real winter then there usually are not as many weddings during that time. $10,000.00 to $20,000.00 a year is not very much for somebody to own their own equipment and maintain that equipment and put insurance on that equipment. |
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#58 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 419
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Dude...youre way out of line and you really do not know what you are talking about(i know you think you do but...). I pay cam ops 300-400 per day but who gives a hot one. and they use my gear. I work in Hollywood as a cam op as well too, Cam Ops rarely get the 250 rental...day rates for cam ops shooting with handheld cameras rarely exceed 300.00'day.
I am done with this thread because you just like to hear yourself talk....thats cool, keep going. In the end though, i dont care what you think...it doesnt affect me.. NO WEDDINGS CAM OPS are "GETIING" 250 to 300 camera rentals PLUS and 300.00 a day "cam Op" rate. Keep complaining about what they should be getting......but its not reality of what they actually are. I live in LA California....so no, I do not use "kids" as cam ops....I use Hollywood freelancers who really know how to use cameras and work in television/feature often and they have "0" complaints about 300 to 400 per day including gear or not. PLUS....what "freelance"...wedding cam op invests 15K in gear......this industry is 90% hacks out there that try to cut every corner they can so 15K in gear....is also again not reality, your making numbers up or what you think they should be but nothing factual or real world. 15 K is spent by some owners/operators but not too many freelances are spending that kind of money to shoot weddings....not happening. Im out...this thread is usless, non educating and is now anoying. Have at it all you want.....waste of time. Quote:
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#59 |
Trustee
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 1,961
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I think cam rental plus labor is not realistic. People don't expect to pay me for labor plus car rental when I go to a job. A vehicle is an assumed expense for a professional. Handymen don't charge people tool rental prices when they show up for a job as it would cost $500 to hang a picture frame if tool rental costs were included. Now that cameras can pay themselves off in just a few events, they are a simple tool that you need on your belt. Owning a camera is going to be somewhat expected from a professional event videographer. Unfortunately, that still gets you $200-$300 per day. If you want more than that, I suspect you will need to work for Joe...
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#60 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 419
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Marcus..I couldnt agree withy your more. I happen to pay my cam ops 300 to 400, and they use my gear, that is more than fair..I KNOW!
Steve house has been running his chops about the rental thing......200 for the cam op and 250 to 300 for the rental, something like that.....like i said, that is unrealistic.....and I know he will never get that rate anywhere, but he rips on me saying that my rates are basically lame.....what a joke! When a mechanic gets a job at a dealership.....they are expected to own almost all of their own tools....and they make an hourly rate which does not include a tools rental. this kind of thing can go on and on depending what biz your in, but this guy kept at it about the cam op pay and the rental pay....bla bla bla. I mean.....come on dude....seriously. By your reply Marcus....I am happy to know that everyone here are not idiots! and i could care less if i get flamed for this post....I am so irritated by the stupid remarks which are uneducated.....and made up. PLUS.....if you dont like my rates, or anyone else's.....go do something else for work...who cares. Lets all protest for every worker in the USA.....because were all under paid....right??? Quote:
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