Brides and Lowball Videographers..urg!

[Michael Liebergot]

Originally Posted by Mike Phan

(On a side note, I still can't believe they would pay a photographer $4k and a videographer who does more work less than $1k; i mean get real!)

Mike one thing to remember, is that most people don't know what goes into making a good video.
They don't realize that there's more to video than just shooting it. There's all of the back end work that goes into it as well (color adjusting, going through the footage to edit, color correct, swwten and clean up audio).
Many people out there think that photographers (who are much more established and have had control of the event market for much longer than video) and video work the same way, they show up and shoot and are ready to deliver the product right away.
So don't be too supprised when a customer comes and sees what exactly you do, and says "Wow, I didn't realize that this much is done to create a video".

This is why I like to have the customer come to me, as I show them all of the detail involved and what their final end product will look like. So I have a current edit up on my monitor so they can get a gauge of what goes into making their video.

It's up to all of us to educate the customer as well as each other, in order to move video more to the forefront.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

I don't normally post in this forum, so I'll apologize in advance for jumping into this discussion.***
After I'd seen the letter from Jayme Paulk Calhoun/SESAC, and my publisher being a member of SESAC, and then having a guy send me a wedding video in which he'd used my music without permission (bragging he'd made 10 copies and given it to the B/G) I made it a point to personally call whom I originally thought was "Mr." Calhoun, but is actually "Ms" Calhoun.

She admitted sending the letter, and originally stood by her position while I was on the phone with her, until I asked to speak to her boss, Dennis Lord. I spoke to Mr. Lord, his whole point of being in the conversation was *exclusively* to defend his employee, even though I gave them several opportunities to make excuses or at least provide a defensible position in the conversation. They couldn't. He originally denied she'd even sent the mail, until she somewhat sheepishly told him she had. Then it was just that "she'd potentially made a mistake, but they weren't sure because Mr. Lord and Ms. Calhoun aren't attorneys (odd that most jr high students know better than her letter indicated). Mr. Lord agreed to talk to their attorney and agreed to contact me after he'd done so. Over two months later, I've still not heard from them, but her letter is still circulating the web as "evidence" that it's OK for contracted video editors to use copyrighted works in videos sold to brides and grooms and their families.

I gave a copy of Ms. Calhoun's letter as copied above to my attorney (who is a specialist in IP law) He laughed pretty good, and said "I hope SESAC doesn't represent you" because it was clear to him, and I think to any person of intelligence, the stupidity, the incorrectedness, and gross ignorance on the part of a Director of Business Affairs commenting on what she now is apparently claiming as a "misconstrued, out of context reference to Fair Use" (I have an email that was forwarded to me from someone whom she's been in contact with).

Frankly, I'm in shock that she still has a job. At ASCAP or BMI, her butt would be on the street for providing such a letter to anyone.
I've since told my publisher that I would like evidence that SESAC no longer represents any of my music, and if they do, then I asked that it be moved to ASCAP, whom I know appropriately represents artists.
I know that SESAC is now monitoring this issue as they told me as much in my phone call. As an artist, I can only hope that they terminate her or at the least force her to apologize to the communities where her letter of stupidity appears. As a producer that strives for excellence regardless of the level of the project I've been hired to create, I can only hope that other professionals will look to SESAC with identical scorn. I simply can't imagine a performance rights organization (PRO) telling anyone it's OK to copy music for a wedding, corporate, or any other kind of video, regardless of the number of copies being made.
you can now return to your regularly scheduled replies. :-)

[Leo Pepingco]

MR DSP,

I had already gotten my confirmation about the missapropriation of Intulectual Property from my family lawer (who actally deals in real estate) but knew enough to tell me exactly what you said, that it was poor information and he had heard of the letter circulating around the net.... Even here in OZ, My family lawyer and myself found out about it, there must be more who also have read this letter.

In the meantime, I'm doing my best to ask nicely for permission and hopefully just get a nod from the artists in question. Some of the fees i've been getting are in the thousands, and for only a few months, as someone who just wants to start out, I cant afford this - and I never took out a loan, I spent about 7 grand of my own money to get startedand I cant spend another grand just to keep going... But in all fairnes, We are all starving artists at some point heheh...

[Michael Liebergot]

DSE, this is why I hope that 4Evergroup and those involved are able to get a yearly license for using copyrighted music like those in Australia and Germany etc., and finally put this issue to rest.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot

DSE, this is why I hope that 4Evergroup and those involved are able to get a yearly license for using copyrighted music like those in Australia and Germany etc., and finally put this issue to rest.

I'm in complete agreement, but frankly, doubt it will happen very soon. It should...and if anyone can do it, I think it will be 4Evergroup. Those guys are dedicated, hardworking people. But, it takes more than that to make it happen. Remember, we're a country of difficult bureaucracies, and for example, if 4EverGroup has to TEACH the idiots that run SESAC how this works before they can get the publishers and RIAA to make it work...then they've got a hard row to hoe.

Leo, I'm confused at your comment. If you live in Oz, you've got it best of everyone with APRA and the opportunities they offer. It's no where *near* a thousand dollars. http://www.apra.com.au/music-users/m...tic_videos.asp
If you do more than four weddings/events a year, it's worth it to buy the annual domestic license at $575.00. That's CHEAP~

[Leo Pepingco]

Oh, I know about APRA, and they are very helpful..... Its just that I have enough trouble trying to avoid annoying managers trying to rip off a noob in the industry.

The moment I say I'm just starting out, or new to the industry, 90% of the time, I get an e-mail detailing several hundred dollars for a few months of licence.....

Hmm, I should really learn to be more specific next time.... I re-read my post.... yes, sorry for that...

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Leo Pepingco

Oh, I know about APRA, and they are very helpful..... Its just that I have enough trouble trying to avoid annoying managers trying to rip off a noob in the industry.

The moment I say I'm just starting out, or new to the industry, 90% of the time, I get an e-mail detailing several hundred dollars for a few months of licence.....

Hmm, I should really learn to be more specific next time.... I re-read my post.... yes, sorry for that...

But doesn't the APRA system mean that you get the license through them and then you're completely covered and no longer have to deal with individual producers and managers at all?

I've wondered too, does it only apply to music of first copyright in Australia or does it cover all music used by an Aussie producer regardless of the source or at least those countries that have reciprocal copyright agreements with Australia like the USA and other Berne Convention signatories? Would, for example, the love theme from "Titanic" be usable under the license without further licensing required?

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

My understanding is it covers all works. But I could be wrong, since I've never had the opportunity to avail their services. I do know that I receive royalty checks from ASCAP that are assigned an APRA code, meaning somewhere in Australia, someone is licensing my music for a project. Additionally, APRA's website says they have arrangements and agreements with "other performance rights organizations from around the globe" and those arrangements are somewhat spelled out specifically. Give em' a call:
1300.852 388
or...licence@apra.com.au

[Leo Pepingco]

G'day Steve,

Yes, APRA can cover most works internationaly, but it does have ts own limits I've heard...

And I think I really have to trainmyself to be more clear, It was only two months ago I found out about APRA, and It was about 6 months ago I decided to go into film and start saving for a camera and plan my bussines. During that time, i didnt know jack and when I tried to contact several artists, I kept getting offers.... .big ones.... Especially when I wanted to get some instumental music from a guy called Jim Brickman. I heard his music on a mates computer and all he knew was the artists, the song was called "mood music" and I knew that wasnt the title....

I was asked to pay 2k australian to get his licence.... didnt even talk to the artist, just the manager. So then I found out about APRA, and thought it would be nice to share my little experiences in this forum..... I think that explains my previous posts.... lol.... thanks guys.