Do you present the abreviated Ceremony and Reception segements? at DVinfo.net

Bob Koza · March 19th, 2006, 09:26 PM

I wonder what other shooters do.

When you present the the segments on your DVD's, are your Ceremony and Reception segments abreviated or as montages? Or are you presenting them almost full length with minimal editing?

thanks

Bob

Peter Jefferson · March 19th, 2006, 10:30 PM

for the full versions, as i always use 2 cameras, i run the full proceedings and trim out any of the fluffing about or walking around stuff that drags the ceremony on...

in the highlights clips is where i cut out all the reading and sermons and only focus on the actual events and locations.

for the reception, its all edited down to about an hour depending on how long teh speeches go for

Don Bloom · March 20th, 2006, 06:15 AM

Bob,
There have been so many discussions about this subject-LONG FORM vs SHORT FORM, however almost 6 years ago I went to the SHORT FORM EDIT and I have never looked back. CEREMONY-10-12 minutes (edited version) RECEPTION 20-25 minutes (edited version)-I do however also give the client an "unedited version" of the ceremony and reception with no color correction, no audio sweetening, no nothing but pretty much the timeline version on 2 seperate DVDs for the family archive.
Don

Peter Jefferson · March 20th, 2006, 07:22 AM

Id love to do this Don.. LOL

here in aus, our market really sux the big one (hence teh reason why im jumping to stills), and people want "more more more" inevitably the sale is based on long form edits (between 60 to 90 minutes) with the inclusion of shortform edits, (between 20 and 30 minutes)

What i do now, is i tell teh client straight off, No highlights unless theyre happy to pay for it.

They get a short version based on the long version.

The preps and footshoot montages are all included while the ceremony gets the best bits extracted and a condensed montage is created. The Reception only includes entry, cake, first dance and maybe some dancing if the client is nice to me ;)
Working it this way has saved me ALOT of time and theres minial "reediting" required for teh short version.

Don Bloom · March 20th, 2006, 08:23 AM

Peter,
It really sounds like what you do is similar to what I do. My finished product (edited version) is about 40-55 minutes then of course I give them the "unedited version" of the ceremony and up to 2 hours of the "unedited reception" on seperate DVDs for archive. Since I start out with a "long" version anyway to edit down to the short version, all it takes is a bit more time to render and burn. Since I've been doing this it seems to work out quite well. I render at night while I'm sleeping so it's no big deal and the clients really feel like they are getting a lot for the money PLUS they can watch the whole wedding in about the same amount of time they watch most TV programs (usually about the same amount of time before they get restless) so everyone is happy! ;-)
Don

Peter Jefferson · March 20th, 2006, 09:23 PM

Thing is Don, the Main Presentation is actually FULlY edited... were talking correction and grading, DD 5.1 surround, trash cut out, dancefloor montages etc etc. I wish i could just give a 30 minutes highlights.. lol damn my workload would be far more managable.. lol No these people want it all... but they dont want to pay for it..

Either way, now that i do the "short version" its much faster, saves having to doublehandle alot of work :)

Bob Koza · March 21st, 2006, 12:08 PM

Thank you for your opinions.

I've been giving an edited ceremony but leaving out the parts where I videotape my feet, etc. So I guess that's long form. For the Reception I try to keep it full but not boring. I guess that's long form as well.

Then I have a number of montages both included and optional.

It all seems to take forever to do, and I thought I may be doing too much.

Bob

Don Bloom · March 21st, 2006, 12:46 PM

the way I look at it is this. It doesn't matter if you do long or short form as long as the client KNOWS and UNDERSTANDS exactly what to expect in their finished product. Years ago I did long form but about 6 years ago I got BORED with it so I decided to add a short edit (30 minutes or so) at no charge to the ones I was doing at the time. After talking to the clients to make sure everything was OK I would ask which one they watched. EVERY ONE and I mean EVERY ONE of them told me the short version so I decided to do that only (40-55 minutes) I then had people asking for the long version of the ceremony for Mom(s) so I decided to add that to the "package" as well as a long version of the reception for the family archive. Now bear in mind I upped the price to make it worth my while and I even added a retrospective piece after the wedding so again I upped my price but the point is, is that every potential client I meet with or converse with via phone or email or whatever not only sees the "demo" (about 16 minutes) but also a complete wedding (about 45 minutes). The "demo shows them the type of work I do the complete wedding shows them the style and about how long it's going to be. (double work I know but that's how I do it) Anyway, as long as they know what to expect so there are no surprises to them later they either like what you do or they don't and will either hire you or not. I've had people NOT hire me because they want the whole thing on 1 disc!?!?!? I know, it's no big deal but people are strange. The more they know up front as to your style the better off you are-no surprises means no bad phone calls ;-)
If you are comfortable doing the style that you do stay with it-if not, change. Just make sure your clients know what to expect.
Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions....Everybodys got 1!

Don

Bob Koza · March 22nd, 2006, 01:51 PM

Don,

You have very valid points about the client knowing up front what to expect.

I have a few Demo dvd's that I show to them, plus a few vignettes on my website.

I had one client that didn't want to see anything up front. She's the only one I've had that didn't like the results.

With time (and mistakes) comes wisdom. Thanks Don.

Bob

Patrick Moreau · March 22nd, 2006, 07:19 PM

Bob,

We offer both versions and simply ask the couple what they would like their video to look like. We give them the option of moving portions to a deleted scenes section and therefore making it more of a short form or we can run the whole thing in its entirety with only minor adjustments, such as shortening the signing portion of the ceremony.

I would agree with Don that having the client understand what they are getting before hand is very important. To that I would add that it is also good to educate them to what is available. If you offer different options it can be great to show them what they are, but if you only offer one option, such as short form, it can also be helpful to tell them what they are not getting- such as the signings in full length. I have found that giving them both sides of the story prevents miscommunication and ensures everybody is on the same page.

I hope I didn't go over what Don already mentioned. Some of the posts were quite long and I didn't get a chance to read through them so I apologize if I'm being repetitive.

March 19th, 2006, 09:26 PM	#1
Bob Koza New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Plymouth MA Posts: 5	Do you present the abreviated Ceremony and Reception segements? I wonder what other shooters do. When you present the the segments on your DVD's, are your Ceremony and Reception segments abreviated or as montages? Or are you presenting them almost full length with minimal editing? thanks Bob

March 19th, 2006, 10:30 PM	#2
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	for the full versions, as i always use 2 cameras, i run the full proceedings and trim out any of the fluffing about or walking around stuff that drags the ceremony on... in the highlights clips is where i cut out all the reading and sermons and only focus on the actual events and locations. for the reception, its all edited down to about an hour depending on how long teh speeches go for

March 20th, 2006, 06:15 AM	#3
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Bob, There have been so many discussions about this subject-LONG FORM vs SHORT FORM, however almost 6 years ago I went to the SHORT FORM EDIT and I have never looked back. CEREMONY-10-12 minutes (edited version) RECEPTION 20-25 minutes (edited version)-I do however also give the client an "unedited version" of the ceremony and reception with no color correction, no audio sweetening, no nothing but pretty much the timeline version on 2 seperate DVDs for the family archive. Don

March 20th, 2006, 07:22 AM	#4
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Id love to do this Don.. LOL here in aus, our market really sux the big one (hence teh reason why im jumping to stills), and people want "more more more" inevitably the sale is based on long form edits (between 60 to 90 minutes) with the inclusion of shortform edits, (between 20 and 30 minutes) What i do now, is i tell teh client straight off, No highlights unless theyre happy to pay for it. They get a short version based on the long version. The preps and footshoot montages are all included while the ceremony gets the best bits extracted and a condensed montage is created. The Reception only includes entry, cake, first dance and maybe some dancing if the client is nice to me ;) Working it this way has saved me ALOT of time and theres minial "reediting" required for teh short version.

March 20th, 2006, 08:23 AM	#5
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Peter, It really sounds like what you do is similar to what I do. My finished product (edited version) is about 40-55 minutes then of course I give them the "unedited version" of the ceremony and up to 2 hours of the "unedited reception" on seperate DVDs for archive. Since I start out with a "long" version anyway to edit down to the short version, all it takes is a bit more time to render and burn. Since I've been doing this it seems to work out quite well. I render at night while I'm sleeping so it's no big deal and the clients really feel like they are getting a lot for the money PLUS they can watch the whole wedding in about the same amount of time they watch most TV programs (usually about the same amount of time before they get restless) so everyone is happy! ;-) Don

March 20th, 2006, 09:23 PM	#6
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Thing is Don, the Main Presentation is actually FULlY edited... were talking correction and grading, DD 5.1 surround, trash cut out, dancefloor montages etc etc. I wish i could just give a 30 minutes highlights.. lol damn my workload would be far more managable.. lol No these people want it all... but they dont want to pay for it.. Either way, now that i do the "short version" its much faster, saves having to doublehandle alot of work :)

March 21st, 2006, 12:08 PM	#7
Bob Koza New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Plymouth MA Posts: 5	Thank you for your opinions. I've been giving an edited ceremony but leaving out the parts where I videotape my feet, etc. So I guess that's long form. For the Reception I try to keep it full but not boring. I guess that's long form as well. Then I have a number of montages both included and optional. It all seems to take forever to do, and I thought I may be doing too much. Bob

March 21st, 2006, 12:46 PM	#8
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	the way I look at it is this. It doesn't matter if you do long or short form as long as the client KNOWS and UNDERSTANDS exactly what to expect in their finished product. Years ago I did long form but about 6 years ago I got BORED with it so I decided to add a short edit (30 minutes or so) at no charge to the ones I was doing at the time. After talking to the clients to make sure everything was OK I would ask which one they watched. EVERY ONE and I mean EVERY ONE of them told me the short version so I decided to do that only (40-55 minutes) I then had people asking for the long version of the ceremony for Mom(s) so I decided to add that to the "package" as well as a long version of the reception for the family archive. Now bear in mind I upped the price to make it worth my while and I even added a retrospective piece after the wedding so again I upped my price but the point is, is that every potential client I meet with or converse with via phone or email or whatever not only sees the "demo" (about 16 minutes) but also a complete wedding (about 45 minutes). The "demo shows them the type of work I do the complete wedding shows them the style and about how long it's going to be. (double work I know but that's how I do it) Anyway, as long as they know what to expect so there are no surprises to them later they either like what you do or they don't and will either hire you or not. I've had people NOT hire me because they want the whole thing on 1 disc!?!?!? I know, it's no big deal but people are strange. The more they know up front as to your style the better off you are-no surprises means no bad phone calls ;-) If you are comfortable doing the style that you do stay with it-if not, change. Just make sure your clients know what to expect. Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions....Everybodys got 1! Don

March 22nd, 2006, 01:51 PM	#9
Bob Koza New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Plymouth MA Posts: 5	Don, You have very valid points about the client knowing up front what to expect. I have a few Demo dvd's that I show to them, plus a few vignettes on my website. I had one client that didn't want to see anything up front. She's the only one I've had that didn't like the results. With time (and mistakes) comes wisdom. Thanks Don. Bob

March 22nd, 2006, 07:19 PM	#10
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Bob, We offer both versions and simply ask the couple what they would like their video to look like. We give them the option of moving portions to a deleted scenes section and therefore making it more of a short form or we can run the whole thing in its entirety with only minor adjustments, such as shortening the signing portion of the ceremony. I would agree with Don that having the client understand what they are getting before hand is very important. To that I would add that it is also good to educate them to what is available. If you offer different options it can be great to show them what they are, but if you only offer one option, such as short form, it can also be helpful to tell them what they are not getting- such as the signings in full length. I have found that giving them both sides of the story prevents miscommunication and ensures everybody is on the same page. I hope I didn't go over what Don already mentioned. Some of the posts were quite long and I didn't get a chance to read through them so I apologize if I'm being repetitive.