synchronize at DVinfo.net

Victor Burdiladze · February 8th, 2006, 12:37 AM

I have event to shoot with XL2 and GL2. What do you guys think would be the best way to synchronize the sound in post?
Thanks in advance.

Mike F Smith · February 8th, 2006, 01:23 AM

Are you using one of the cameras for the master sound track or are you going to add the sound in post and useing both cameras as scratch tracks? Please be more specific.

Mike

Craig Terott · February 8th, 2006, 08:20 AM

It's easy enough to get a very close sync by nudging one clip ahead or back until there is no echo. Occassionally when you do this you'll be off a frame or two, so I look for a camera flash in both video clips, nudge one track a frame at a time until you see the camera flash sync'd - this gets it to within 1/30th of a second.

Victor Burdiladze · February 8th, 2006, 09:18 AM

Mike,
I was thinking to mix both camera sounds in post on my final cut pro, but that could be very timeconsuming. The costumer does not pay enough for me to rent lav microphones, so that's another issue.
I'll consider usig one camera sound if it is any disent, and apply lot of music during the editing.

Graig,
I'll definitely try your way of synchronizing.

Thanks...

Craig Terott · February 8th, 2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor Burdiladze

The costumer does not pay enough for me to rent lav microphones, so that's another issue.

Victor,

I'm sorry if I'm "abrasive" in this post but I just want to get my point across and hopefully you can understand my point.

Nobody "rents" lav microphones - they buy them. An I-River & lapel microphone are $150 or less and a good wireless mic is just $500.

Audio is at least 1/2 of the viewing experience. And in my opinion you owe it to those who pay you as a professional to do more than Uncle Bob would do with the audio. No lav mic = not professional. In fact, if someone had a gun to my head, and said you must use only two pieces of equipment to shoot this ceremony or I'll kill you... the options were your XL2, your GL2, the Sennheizer G2 wireless mic. ...in a heartbeat I would grab the XL2 & the wireless mic. The $500 wireless mic would be more valuable to me than the $3000 GL2. In other words (in my opinion), one camera coverage with clean audio is more professional than two camera coverage using just the camera mics. JMHO

I shoot with 2 manned cameras, 2 wireless mics, and an I-River.

Joe Allen Rosenberger · February 8th, 2006, 01:36 PM

I second Craig.......you MUST have atleast one good wireless lav....and get two if you can manage it. This gear is not an "option"...its a must have along with your camera. You can "rent" a pro wireless lav though if you cannot afford to purchase one....in LA rental fees are about 30.00 to 80.00 per day depending on what type you want.....but in any case, you'll need the gear or your audio will suffer.

Victor Burdiladze · February 8th, 2006, 08:40 PM

I appreciate your honesty guys;
The thing is, that most of my gear I bought for mainly film-making purposes, and only secondly for event videography. Very soon, I'm also planing to get Sennheiser's MKH 416 or higher (for film production again) and as a sound recorder something from Fostex/Tascam femily.
As you know, those are pretty expencive and that is why I was not too eager to spend on something else.
Although, after what you said, I'm thinking to buy something cheep for now, just for event videography.
Please tell me, what brands should I look for?
Thanks again
Victor.

P. S. I was thinking about Sennheiser ew 112-p set but that's around $500 so... not for me at this point.

Mike F Smith · February 8th, 2006, 08:40 PM

Vic, I agree with others who say you must get decent sound. It won't serve you to do a less than quality job even if the pay ain't great. You will have the sound equipment for your next job. It's a tool, get decent tools. The Irivers are decent tools. They aren't all that much money. I still would like to know exactly what you are shooting.

Mike

Joe Allen Rosenberger · February 8th, 2006, 09:07 PM

Vic, I personally wouldnt go the iRiver way for sound, I just picked up another sennheiser EW100 wireless mic/lav system...now we have three of these set ups. This mic was replaced by the sennheiser G2.....the thing I do not like about the new G2's are the casing....they are plastic, where the ew100's are die cast metal and rugged. I paid 250 bucks.....great price on ebay!

there are others out there that are better but the ew 100's are pretty sweet. check ebay periodically.

Victor Burdiladze · February 8th, 2006, 09:38 PM

Mike,
I'm shooting bar mitsvah, and although I've never done any bar mitsvahs before, I've done lot of comercial videos (for hotels, dance competitions and others), so I think I should be all right.
Joe,
I was also thinking about M-Audio recorder(24-bit/96 khz) and costs only
$399. But it has no XLR inputs and I may eventually go for Tascam's new-hd p2 ($999!-which means I have to wait) But that's more for film/location recording.
For now, though, iriver and inexpensive lav seem more attractive.

If you have any tips for bar mitsvah videography, please tell me.

P.S. Friday I'm going to B&H so I may pick up some wireless mic, if e-bay fails.

Peter Jefferson · February 8th, 2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Terott

Victor,

I'm sorry if I'm "abrasive" in this post but I just want to get my point across and hopefully you can understand my point.

Nobody "rents" lav microphones - they buy them. An I-River & lapel microphone are $150 or less and a good wireless mic is just $500.

Audio is at least 1/2 of the viewing experience. And in my opinion you owe it to those who pay you as a professional to do more than Uncle Bob would do with the audio. No lav mic = not professional. In fact, if someone had a gun to my head, and said you must use only two pieces of equipment to shoot this ceremony or I'll kill you... the options were your XL2, your GL2, the Sennheizer G2 wireless mic. ...in a heartbeat I would grab the XL2 & the wireless mic. The $500 wireless mic would be more valuable to me than the $3000 GL2. In other words (in my opinion), one camera coverage with clean audio is more professional than two camera coverage using just the camera mics. JMHO

I shoot with 2 manned cameras, 2 wireless mics, and an I-River.

What he said...

Mike F Smith · February 9th, 2006, 04:07 PM

Vic,

My Bar Mitsva experience is limited to still photography. Having said that I can say surely this is a sound critical event. An important focus of most Bar Mitzvas is the recitation of the Tora by the young person. Do what it takes to get good sound for that ceremony. Spend some time talking to the event cordinator so you will know what will be happening and when. If you have been hired just to do the ceremony at the temple I would ask if you could do some shooting at the post ceremony celebration gratis. Good footage and interviews can be had there. I say to do this for two reasons. One to build up your Bar Mitzva reel and two because there will be many potential future clients in the children at the event, many more so than at most weddings. As far as sincing cameras, if the ceremony is less than and hour you can sinc clapboard style, with your hands of course. If setting cameras side by side and a hand clap would be inapropriate you can always hold each hand a few inches away from the built in camera mics and give each a light thump with your finger at the same time. If both cameras have a freerun mode that's the best route.

Mike

Victor Burdiladze · February 9th, 2006, 09:14 PM

Thanks Mike
I did not think of clapping hands for some reason, but the idea seems great(I actually have a small clapboard too).
And since you've done some event photography, I'm buying new Nikon D200 to be able to offer wider variety of services to my future clients.
What do you think about that camera for using it in event photography?

Victor Burdiladze · February 9th, 2006, 09:50 PM

Another thing.
There seem to be many different i-rivers out there, so which one would you recommend?

Mike F Smith · February 9th, 2006, 11:21 PM

I have to admit to being a dinasoar in the still photography department. I still use my film cameras exclusively for events. It's not that I don't favor the digital workflow, I do. I just like the look of well exposed professionally processed portrait film in 2 1/4" and even 35mm for that matter. I'm used to being able to control the depth of field easily. I like the fact you can over expose color film several stops with no problem. It is better to overexpose color film a half a stop in most cases. I wish Nikon would hury up and bring out a digital with a 35mm chip as Canon has. I'm sure they will shortly. The fact that I can use all my Nikor lenses on a D200 is great, that my 105 now becomes a 160 is bogus. Having said that I plan to purchase a D200 later this year. I have been waiting for the camera to shake out a little to see if there were bugs. I think you could do very fine work with that camera at events. It's not the tools that limit most of us, it's our ability to see. I have found that most photographers that become gear heads usually aren't very good photographers. With the advance of digital, photoshop, photoraphy on the web etc photography has slumped a little in my opinion. People say that you can take a 5mp image and make and 11x14 print from it. To my eye it looks like garbage. 8x10s from a 5mp file look like garbage in most cases. With the 10mp files from the d200 you are getting I think you could get decent 8x10s. I rarely sell prints larger than 8x10s from events. If I to do the family portrait at such and event I use a 2 1/4" camera anyway.

Mike

February 8th, 2006, 12:37 AM	#1
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	synchronize I have event to shoot with XL2 and GL2. What do you guys think would be the best way to synchronize the sound in post? Thanks in advance.

February 8th, 2006, 08:40 PM	#8
Mike F Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 156	Decent Tools Vic, I agree with others who say you must get decent sound. It won't serve you to do a less than quality job even if the pay ain't great. You will have the sound equipment for your next job. It's a tool, get decent tools. The Irivers are decent tools. They aren't all that much money. I still would like to know exactly what you are shooting. Mike

February 8th, 2006, 01:23 AM	#2
Mike F Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 156	Are you using one of the cameras for the master sound track or are you going to add the sound in post and useing both cameras as scratch tracks? Please be more specific. Mike

February 8th, 2006, 08:20 AM	#3
Craig Terott Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 691	It's easy enough to get a very close sync by nudging one clip ahead or back until there is no echo. Occassionally when you do this you'll be off a frame or two, so I look for a camera flash in both video clips, nudge one track a frame at a time until you see the camera flash sync'd - this gets it to within 1/30th of a second.

February 8th, 2006, 09:18 AM	#4
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	Mike, I was thinking to mix both camera sounds in post on my final cut pro, but that could be very timeconsuming. The costumer does not pay enough for me to rent lav microphones, so that's another issue. I'll consider usig one camera sound if it is any disent, and apply lot of music during the editing. Graig, I'll definitely try your way of synchronizing. Thanks...

February 8th, 2006, 01:36 PM	#6
Joe Allen Rosenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 419	I second Craig.......you MUST have atleast one good wireless lav....and get two if you can manage it. This gear is not an "option"...its a must have along with your camera. You can "rent" a pro wireless lav though if you cannot afford to purchase one....in LA rental fees are about 30.00 to 80.00 per day depending on what type you want.....but in any case, you'll need the gear or your audio will suffer.

February 8th, 2006, 09:07 PM	#9
Joe Allen Rosenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 419	Vic, I personally wouldnt go the iRiver way for sound, I just picked up another sennheiser EW100 wireless mic/lav system...now we have three of these set ups. This mic was replaced by the sennheiser G2.....the thing I do not like about the new G2's are the casing....they are plastic, where the ew100's are die cast metal and rugged. I paid 250 bucks.....great price on ebay! there are others out there that are better but the ew 100's are pretty sweet. check ebay periodically.

February 8th, 2006, 09:38 PM	#10
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	Mike, I'm shooting bar mitsvah, and although I've never done any bar mitsvahs before, I've done lot of comercial videos (for hotels, dance competitions and others), so I think I should be all right. Joe, I was also thinking about M-Audio recorder(24-bit/96 khz) and costs only $399. But it has no XLR inputs and I may eventually go for Tascam's new-hd p2 ($999!-which means I have to wait) But that's more for film/location recording. For now, though, iriver and inexpensive lav seem more attractive. If you have any tips for bar mitsvah videography, please tell me. P.S. Friday I'm going to B&H so I may pick up some wireless mic, if e-bay fails.

February 9th, 2006, 04:07 PM	#12
Mike F Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 156	Vic, My Bar Mitsva experience is limited to still photography. Having said that I can say surely this is a sound critical event. An important focus of most Bar Mitzvas is the recitation of the Tora by the young person. Do what it takes to get good sound for that ceremony. Spend some time talking to the event cordinator so you will know what will be happening and when. If you have been hired just to do the ceremony at the temple I would ask if you could do some shooting at the post ceremony celebration gratis. Good footage and interviews can be had there. I say to do this for two reasons. One to build up your Bar Mitzva reel and two because there will be many potential future clients in the children at the event, many more so than at most weddings. As far as sincing cameras, if the ceremony is less than and hour you can sinc clapboard style, with your hands of course. If setting cameras side by side and a hand clap would be inapropriate you can always hold each hand a few inches away from the built in camera mics and give each a light thump with your finger at the same time. If both cameras have a freerun mode that's the best route. Mike

February 9th, 2006, 09:14 PM	#13
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	Thanks Mike I did not think of clapping hands for some reason, but the idea seems great(I actually have a small clapboard too). And since you've done some event photography, I'm buying new Nikon D200 to be able to offer wider variety of services to my future clients. What do you think about that camera for using it in event photography?

February 9th, 2006, 09:50 PM	#14
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	Another thing. There seem to be many different i-rivers out there, so which one would you recommend?

February 9th, 2006, 11:21 PM	#15
Mike F Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 156	I have to admit to being a dinasoar in the still photography department. I still use my film cameras exclusively for events. It's not that I don't favor the digital workflow, I do. I just like the look of well exposed professionally processed portrait film in 2 1/4" and even 35mm for that matter. I'm used to being able to control the depth of field easily. I like the fact you can over expose color film several stops with no problem. It is better to overexpose color film a half a stop in most cases. I wish Nikon would hury up and bring out a digital with a 35mm chip as Canon has. I'm sure they will shortly. The fact that I can use all my Nikor lenses on a D200 is great, that my 105 now becomes a 160 is bogus. Having said that I plan to purchase a D200 later this year. I have been waiting for the camera to shake out a little to see if there were bugs. I think you could do very fine work with that camera at events. It's not the tools that limit most of us, it's our ability to see. I have found that most photographers that become gear heads usually aren't very good photographers. With the advance of digital, photoshop, photoraphy on the web etc photography has slumped a little in my opinion. People say that you can take a 5mp image and make and 11x14 print from it. To my eye it looks like garbage. 8x10s from a 5mp file look like garbage in most cases. With the 10mp files from the d200 you are getting I think you could get decent 8x10s. I rarely sell prints larger than 8x10s from events. If I to do the family portrait at such and event I use a 2 1/4" camera anyway. Mike