How long do you give yourself until you delivery DVD after Wedding?

Michael Padilla · January 9th, 2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Zlam

One to Two weeks.

Are you serious? There is no way I could put out quality work in one/two weeks... HA, I could barely get raw footage out within two weeks.

My contract is simple - $500 up front deposit to hold date; remainder two weeks before the wedding date or I don't show. They'll get the DVD between 4-6 months at best with no guarantees.

I would need to hire a full time editor in order to get these things out within a month or two. And to be honest, as much as I'd love to do that, there is just too much creative controll to be lost in do that.

Joe Allen Rosenberger · January 9th, 2006, 02:12 AM

Mike,

Time does not dictate "quality".....especially if you're a fast efficient editor with a fast paced creative mind, it's that simple. Some wedding producers "need" all the time they can get to produce "quality" while others can do it 5 X faster with smilar or better results. To me, it's a customer service thing.......yeah, you're clients may sign on the dotted line and are aware that it will take 4 to 6 months, but do they like it.....I doubt that very much. As an editor, especially if you ever plan to move onto bigger and better projects such as network television, commercials, etc.....you better pick up the pace or they will find someone who can and there are a many capable. If it takes longer for you then that is what you have to do to make it right....and look sweet, but your goal should be to pick up the pace.....maybe just a little on each project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Padilla

Are you serious? There is no way I could put out quality work in one/two weeks... HA, I could barely get raw footage out within two weeks.

My contract is simple - $500 up front deposit to hold date; remainder two weeks before the wedding date or I don't show. They'll get the DVD between 4-6 months at best with no guarantees.

I would need to hire a full time editor in order to get these things out within a month or two. And to be honest, as much as I'd love to do that, there is just too much creative controll to be lost in do that.

Michael Padilla · January 9th, 2006, 03:05 AM

True, time does not always dictate quality, but it really depends on what you do for your client; Its not that a wedding actually takes me 6 months, it usually takes within two weeks; but there are so many other things that take presicidense in life; for example other projects, corporate projects (that pay way better), family, etc; and yes I'm sure I am not the fastest editor in the world; but being meticulous to have a great film is my number 1 priority over speed. Many people also just do one cut or so... for each wedding we do, its two cam all day; so a full documentary (multicam edit) + Aritistic music video of the day cut to one song. On top of that many of our customers get a package with an engagement shoot. This is one music video & interview. So if I have a customer that wants this, I shoot this as soon as possible, before the wedding and cut it in time to project it at the reception.. which will also push back other projects. But, if all I did was music video edits all day, I would probably be much faster, as I hate the documentary/Interview stuff.. it boars me to death... and just because of that.. I take longer :)

Hey if you want, check me out... we updated our website & I've been needing for someone to tell me if my streaming video is working ok or not anyway. www.visualmasterpiece.com
Check out "becky & chris", the music video part was done in one days work. Everything else on the dvd (that you'll probably never see) took up the rest of my time. Let me know if it works. thanks.

Yi Fong Yu · January 9th, 2006, 01:02 PM

i was just talking about it with my pops, he says that what bride&groom in their right mind would accept months to get their DVDs. =).

Richard Zlamany · January 9th, 2006, 01:02 PM

I am serious. I take this work very seriously. I edit weddings for 4 different videographers including myself. Each have different techniques which either speed up or slow down the process of editing. I finish all wedding edits in two weeks after I receive the honeymoon pictures.

Half of the weddings are two cams but that makes no real difference in time. The reason is if they are not two cams I have to spend more time looking for inserts. With a second cam I have more options.

Also, my edits are not highly stylized but are more documentary like. They are stylized but only for certain key moments.

I use Vegas. I find it to be the fastest most intuitive editor I have ever worked with.

I edit more than I shoot so editing is priority.

This is why I edit weddings in two weeks and a majority are completed even faster.

Richard Zlamany · January 9th, 2006, 01:15 PM

Michael Padilla, The Becky and Chris video looks great. How are you achieving the rotating shots? What type of cam and support do you use?

Where I work they do not offer a music video like this. We only give a documentary wedding video.

I like your style. It is inspirational. Bravo.

Michael Padilla · January 9th, 2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Zlam

I use Vegas. I find it to be the fastest most intuitive editor I have ever worked with.

I edit more than I shoot so editing is priority.

This is why I edit weddings in two weeks and a majority are completed even faster.

Want to edit my documentary stuff :)

________________
About Vegas, my friend David Perry uses Vegas; he gets it done quick and vegas seems very fast & intuitive for wedding stuff. Much more so than FCP; I'm an Apple guy so no vegas for me. But even his contract says no sooner than 6 months; plus he has an in-house editor plus himself editing.
When I first got into this business I though, ok no more than two months. That was drastically altered when I got busy, and I found out that my peers that were doing some of the best work I'd ever seen were saying 6 months. Do we all know of Jenny Leaman? She has on her contract 4-6 months, so I adopted that, and appropriately so. She is quite friendly about her advice.

Michael Padilla · January 9th, 2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Zlam

Michael Padilla, The Becky and Chris video looks great. How are you achieving the rotating shots? What type of cam and support do you use?

Where I work they do not offer a music video like this. We only give a documentary wedding video.

I like your style. It is inspirational. Bravo.

Thank you, much appreciated....
(so I take it you could infact view the film without any video clipping?)

Believe it or not I am a "real" stedicam operator; a little overblown for weddings, but it gives a great cinematic/professional feel.
We are using the Canon XL2 shooting in 24P (I don't slo-mo past 60%).
And I am using the Aviator rig from Varizoom www.varizoom.com an awesome tool!!
If you check the testimonials off of the stedicam section there is a pic of my wife and I working :)

Patrick Jenkins · January 11th, 2006, 10:19 AM

6 to 12 weeks

(I also have a blurb in my contract that says those are best efforts - should it be longer I will inform them - haven't had to yet *knock on wood*)

Craig Terott · January 11th, 2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Padilla

Believe it or not I am a "real" stedicam operator; a little overblown for weddings, but it gives a great cinematic/professional feel.
We are using the Canon XL2 shooting in 24P (I don't slo-mo past 60%).
And I am using the Aviator rig from Varizoom www.varizoom.com an awesome tool!!

I wouldn't normally want to drop 45 large on something like that but it's under consideration. I expect the answer to be yes but I'll ask anyway ...is there much shock absorption between the arms, and is it adjustable shock absorption?

Michael Padilla · January 11th, 2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Terott

I wouldn't normally want to drop 45 large on something like that but it's under consideration. I expect the answer to be yes but I'll ask anyway ...is there much shock absorption between the arms, and is it adjustable shock absorption?

Ok, between the arms... I'll answer several different ways;

1. There are two arms on this rig, they are both shock adjustable - not for shock's sake, but rather as support for the weight of the camera.

2. If you are asking about stability then I'll just say that when perfectly balanced I can run & jump and the end result is perfectly stable.

3. Lastly, if you are concerned for yourself wearing the rig; I can go 8hrs with very little fatigue; I actually prefer to use this system for ceremony coverage rather than over the shoulder... less fatigue and I can move around freely and never stop filming. Plus I have a lanc remote attached for start/stop, zooming etc. Not to mention the 7" LCD sure beats looking through the 2.5" viewfinder for framing.

Hope that helps. Also, it would be my recommendation to visit NAB this April and check out all of the rigs & stedicam gear available... talk to the owners etc... This is what we did, and we found Varizoom to be absolutly the best all-around! If you do go with Varizoom, speak to Tom Mckay (owner). Tell him Michael & Rebecka sent you... its possible he'd cut you a better deal than what you see online for this rig or something else; but don't expect too much as this equipment is the best available; expensive high grade metals, electronics & design. None-the-less you'll get amazing service that way! Good luck!

Craig Terott · January 12th, 2006, 03:11 PM

Well ...Mike. I'm a man of action. Forget NAB. I took your recommendation and bought the Aviator. I got the lanc remote and an Anton Bouer power supply.

The only thing I worry about is attracting attention. I know if I wasn't a videographer and I saw someone with one of these rigs I'd probably want to get a closer look. Have you had to deal with this problem at all?

Tom Hardwick · January 13th, 2006, 03:05 AM

Craig, you've nailed an important point. As the filmmaker at the wedding I feel my job is to interact with the guests, catch everything they do in a spontaneous, natural way yet be totally invisible at the same time. I'm there to record the day - not to make it happen in a certain way and certainly not to change things by being there. I'll not ask for them to 'walk this way' or to cut into the cake another time 'for a better close-up'.

Of course in the real world it doesn't always pan out like this, but the beauty of the modern DVCAM or HDV unit is it's shear capability vs its size, and it's only the attachment of a video light (so often necessary at this time of year) that blows your cover.

The B & G need assessing up front. I knew one couple that were film mad - each table was adorned with the name of favourite films, and I knew they would understand the importance of letting me quickly change position for an alternative shot, re-do that shot with the video light on this time and ask them to hold that kiss while I track around them.

But this is not the norm I find. Most couples write in utter surprise having seen the DVD. I want amazement to be uppermost in their thoughts - that tom got these shots without them even noticing he was there, or remembering him going about his business. Fig-Rigs, cranes, lights and Steadycams make this harder to pull off in a real-time event such as a wedding day.

Just my view. I love reading all yours as well.

tom.

Michael Padilla · January 13th, 2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Terott

Well ...Mike. I'm a man of action. Forget NAB. I took your recommendation and bought the Aviator. I got the lanc remote and an Anton Bouer power supply.

The only thing I worry about is attracting attention. I know if I wasn't a videographer and I saw someone with one of these rigs I'd probably want to get a closer look. Have you had to deal with this problem at all?

Craig.. Congratulations, im going to tell you something I don't tell everyone... This rig honestly helped define us a videographers; it helped separated us from everyone else. And we get unreal footage.

As far as being noticed, you'd be suprised... First of all, everyone notices... and thats fine, people come up to me all the time, and say "wow thats awesome!" or "how does it work?", and then I'll get the people at the end of the day that come up to me when I'm packing up and say "I've been watching you all day and just wanted to tell you how proffessional you are", usually when I first put on the rig, i'll here someone wisper "hey thats stedicam gear!" in excitment. It has never NEVER been a problem, people love that you are there, keep a smile on your face, interact with them & when its time to shoot, believe me they will let you do your thing.

Here's the funny thing, when you ask the bride and goom if they remember the gear that I was using, they honestly wont remember it at all. And besides, they are your clients. Same goes for shot "take overs" and having them do stuff. Look here is how I see it, the photographer gets their artistic shots, well I am an artist, I am a photographer with a motion picture camera, I want my artistic shots too. So I let them know that I want at least 5 minuets alone with the bride and groom to put to the music video. I also let them & the photographer know that I will be filming for artistic shots when he does his poses and that I might interject posing as well. This us usually acknowledged with a grunt of sorts with the photographer, but when it comes down to it, they are happy I helped out because I improved their shots (they usually, say.. Hey hold that I want a shot of that too!) Most photographers at the end of the day say to us "wow you guys were great to work with", as long as your both 'being' proffessional, you will respect each other. I have only ever had one seriously unpleasent experiance with a photographer. Anyway, If you are struggling with this and can't get your shots just move on to something else and grab the bride and groom later. Oh another great shot that you'll see well done in "linda & gil" is durring the reception, grab a waiter have him take you into the back room where they are grabbing plates, and film him as he walks from the kitchen to where he's going to serve it.

Anyhow if you have more questions i'd love to help out!

BTW, did you get the Aviator through Tom? or did you speak with Tom and mention us? Let me know how it went.

January 9th, 2006, 01:02 PM	#49
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	i was just talking about it with my pops, he says that what bride&groom in their right mind would accept months to get their DVDs. =). __________________ bow wow wow

January 9th, 2006, 03:05 AM	#48
Michael Padilla Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: O.C., CA United States Posts: 337	True, time does not always dictate quality, but it really depends on what you do for your client; Its not that a wedding actually takes me 6 months, it usually takes within two weeks; but there are so many other things that take presicidense in life; for example other projects, corporate projects (that pay way better), family, etc; and yes I'm sure I am not the fastest editor in the world; but being meticulous to have a great film is my number 1 priority over speed. Many people also just do one cut or so... for each wedding we do, its two cam all day; so a full documentary (multicam edit) + Aritistic music video of the day cut to one song. On top of that many of our customers get a package with an engagement shoot. This is one music video & interview. So if I have a customer that wants this, I shoot this as soon as possible, before the wedding and cut it in time to project it at the reception.. which will also push back other projects. But, if all I did was music video edits all day, I would probably be much faster, as I hate the documentary/Interview stuff.. it boars me to death... and just because of that.. I take longer :) Hey if you want, check me out... we updated our website & I've been needing for someone to tell me if my streaming video is working ok or not anyway. www.visualmasterpiece.com Check out "becky & chris", the music video part was done in one days work. Everything else on the dvd (that you'll probably never see) took up the rest of my time. Let me know if it works. thanks.

January 9th, 2006, 01:02 PM	#50
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	I am serious. I take this work very seriously. I edit weddings for 4 different videographers including myself. Each have different techniques which either speed up or slow down the process of editing. I finish all wedding edits in two weeks after I receive the honeymoon pictures. Half of the weddings are two cams but that makes no real difference in time. The reason is if they are not two cams I have to spend more time looking for inserts. With a second cam I have more options. Also, my edits are not highly stylized but are more documentary like. They are stylized but only for certain key moments. I use Vegas. I find it to be the fastest most intuitive editor I have ever worked with. I edit more than I shoot so editing is priority. This is why I edit weddings in two weeks and a majority are completed even faster.

January 9th, 2006, 01:15 PM	#51
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	Michael Padilla, The Becky and Chris video looks great. How are you achieving the rotating shots? What type of cam and support do you use? Where I work they do not offer a music video like this. We only give a documentary wedding video. I like your style. It is inspirational. Bravo.

January 11th, 2006, 10:19 AM	#54
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	6 to 12 weeks (I also have a blurb in my contract that says those are best efforts - should it be longer I will inform them - haven't had to yet knock on wood)

January 12th, 2006, 03:11 PM	#57
Craig Terott Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 691	Well ...Mike. I'm a man of action. Forget NAB. I took your recommendation and bought the Aviator. I got the lanc remote and an Anton Bouer power supply. The only thing I worry about is attracting attention. I know if I wasn't a videographer and I saw someone with one of these rigs I'd probably want to get a closer look. Have you had to deal with this problem at all?

January 13th, 2006, 03:05 AM	#58
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Craig, you've nailed an important point. As the filmmaker at the wedding I feel my job is to interact with the guests, catch everything they do in a spontaneous, natural way yet be totally invisible at the same time. I'm there to record the day - not to make it happen in a certain way and certainly not to change things by being there. I'll not ask for them to 'walk this way' or to cut into the cake another time 'for a better close-up'. Of course in the real world it doesn't always pan out like this, but the beauty of the modern DVCAM or HDV unit is it's shear capability vs its size, and it's only the attachment of a video light (so often necessary at this time of year) that blows your cover. The B & G need assessing up front. I knew one couple that were film mad - each table was adorned with the name of favourite films, and I knew they would understand the importance of letting me quickly change position for an alternative shot, re-do that shot with the video light on this time and ask them to hold that kiss while I track around them. But this is not the norm I find. Most couples write in utter surprise having seen the DVD. I want amazement to be uppermost in their thoughts - that tom got these shots without them even noticing he was there, or remembering him going about his business. Fig-Rigs, cranes, lights and Steadycams make this harder to pull off in a real-time event such as a wedding day. Just my view. I love reading all yours as well. tom.