Wedding Guys, What's Happening?

Steve Burkett · March 20th, 2019, 09:18 PM

Weddings are stressful and I can understand you can get to a point where it's not worth it. However I'm not at that point. There are plenty of jobs out there that can be stressful. I've done a few. They didn't though give me the satisfaction I get when at the end of the day, I've done a good date filming, or when I'm sending off a completed full length Wedding Video or Highlights piece. If your hearts not in it, then give it up. Or if you're doing too much, pull back.

It's our own lives in the end, and how much we wish to give to our work is down to us in the end. I do agree Wedding work is probably the toughest video work you can get. Especially if you're working alone. Expectations are so much higher now.

Oh and I can relate to the parking. Last Sunday, the Ceremony was in West London and I had to park half a mile from the civic building it was taking place in. Then the Reception was at a restaurant where there was no parking spaces left and I had to park on double yellow lines. Thankfully so did many of the guests, so I wasn't the only one. Being late Sunday, we were all spared a parking ticket. However such days are very much the exception for me. Most of the time, parking isn't a problem.

Steven Shea · March 21st, 2019, 03:26 PM

I think doing them solo has been the killer for me. Just having a second set of hands to help move stuff quickly, or have one person find parking while the other gets to the location with a camera can make all the difference.

I would even joke to my wife about having to remember not to be in "wedding mode" while we're driving for leisure. If we miss a turn, miss a light, and have to spend an extra few minutes, it doesn't matter! I'm so conditioned to needing those minutes really badly and being on edge about them while working.

But as was said above, the feeling after a long day with well captured footage will always be satisfying, not to mention delivering the finals.

Chris Harding · March 21st, 2019, 06:24 PM

I have often had to ask my wife to drop me and my gear off if it's a city wedding with dubious parking ..I then will give her a call when I'm done ...However that only works for a fixed venue sadly and it's tough to expect your partner to spend the whole day as your driver ! If parking is likely to be a problem I will leave early just to be safe but often I get there maybe anything up to 90 minutes early and find a parking straight away so I have to sit on my bum for ages AND I don't get paid for that extra time! I wonder if brides even realise that if we film, say, a Church service for 45 minutes we actually spend a LOT more time than 45 minutes!!

David Banner · April 3rd, 2019, 09:58 PM

Great thread but slow forum these days.
I'm in the process of adding a couple new services to my wedding offerings - live streaming and a photo booth.
Also expanded my photography gear to offer photography in the future but skills not good enough for that yet.

The info about making a facebook group is interesting. I really dislike FB and haven't been on in several months (with no intention of getting on soon) but you guys do have a point that brides nearly always have their phone attached to them and are on FB.
So I'll have to deal with it because that is where they are.

In my area I'd say the market is not great. 20 years ago there were few competitors doing video but today there are DOZENS. And many of them will do it CHEAP.

As far as the talk about forums going away, I hope not. Things sure are slow on the video forums I'm on, indeed. I find these a valuable place and since I work most of the time visiting on the forums is my fun time. You guys have been great since I first signed on here in 2011.

Chris Harding · April 4th, 2019, 01:44 AM

Hi David

I switched to live streaming so I could create a niche market that the cheap weekend warriors couldn't get into (or were too lazy to) It is a way to work smarter not harder as you can reduce your prices (only if you have to) but shooting with a couple of static cameras feeding a switcher on a computer means that you can edit live so all the previous edit time becomes pure profit ..even if brides don't want a live feed it's still a cost effect way to record a ready to view wedding video ..no more waiting either for brides as you can deliver just days later!!

Steve Burkett · April 4th, 2019, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi David

I switched to live streaming so I could create a niche market that the cheap weekend warriors couldn't get into (or were too lazy to) It is a way to work smarter not harder as you can reduce your prices (only if you have to) but shooting with a couple of static cameras feeding a switcher on a computer means that you can edit live so all the previous edit time becomes pure profit ..even if brides don't want a live feed it's still a cost effect way to record a ready to view wedding video ..no more waiting either for brides as you can deliver just days later!!

I'm not sure laziness is the reason weekend warriors have failed to jump onto live streaming. Most weekend warriors are exploiting a hobby for extra cash. Putting their work online for their friends to see. Live streaming may not give them that same satisfaction as a well made Highlights Video.

Kyle Root · May 12th, 2019, 12:54 PM

In 2017/2018 (after nearly 20 years) I really began moving away from doing wedding videos to doing wedding photos.

Photos is just easier and way more forgiving and a quite frankly a lot less equipment and hassle. Of course the trade off is the responsibility is quite a bit greater because the photographer is usually running the day.

I can show up, shoot the day, upload to my edit shop and relax... vs having to try and edit a video. I know there are video outsource shops, but again photo outsourcing is cheaper.

I have clients fork out $2000-$4000 and not even bat an eye for photos... but man trying to get $2000 for a film is a challenge.

David Barnett · May 12th, 2019, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Root

I have clients fork out $2000-$4000 and not even bat an eye for photos... but man trying to get $2000 for a film is a challenge.

This is part of what bugs me about the wedding industry. Plus, twice I've worked with photographers who were shocked at the amount of time it took to edit them. (The first was a photog who was trying to dabble in video more and knew limited editing skills, so that was quite an undertaking, which he admitted. The other was more a guy with a video background who ventured into wedding photography and offered a video for a friend. Just let a few weeks go by & mentioned how hard to pick it back up is after time as passed. He said photo editing is more something you can start/stop with ease, whereas video you need to get in a rhythm or in the mindset of the wedding.

Pete Cofrancesco · May 12th, 2019, 02:36 PM

I’ve done both. With photography more of the skill and work is in the front end. Get those great shots, properly, pose, frame and expose then the rest isn’t hard. With video more time and thinking is on the backend.

Chris Harding · May 12th, 2019, 06:27 PM

Seriously video SHOULD cost more than photos too but wedding photos are traditional so they have a higher pecking order! If you think about it you can produce a very nice set of wedding photos on a good sub $1000 bridge camera and a (decent flash if you do the reception too) and a 20 -24mp sensor will produce a very pleasing image to 99% of brides. With video to stay competitive nowdays you need multiple cameras, gimbals or a stedicam and then a drone is almost mandatory too as brides expect it! There is a much higher capital investment and a lot harder work with video compared with photos I guess brides still like the fact you can physically pick up a photo album and show it around so it has a higher perceived value If I was given an option to do a wedding for say $2000 and had the choice of video or photos I would choose photos every time ..less gear to carry, no audio to worry about and really a lot easily day!!

But I'm still a videographer and that's what I enjoy even if it's lower paid and harder work it's simply the fact that we are lower down the list on bride's priorities!

Roger Gunkel · May 13th, 2019, 03:53 AM

Our joint video and photography package is still our most popular, but when we take a photography only package, it feels almost like a day off compared to video. With video you are trying to follow the action, setting up multiple cameras, trying to remain unobtrusive and working around the photographer, then all the editing. With photography I am in control, setting up poses, controlling the timing, no tripods and loads of gear to haul around and a much closer relationship with the family and friends. Editing and processing is far quicker.

Photography is more competitive, but our joint package has a very limited number of competitors.

Roger

David Barnett · May 13th, 2019, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Seriously video SHOULD cost more than photos too but wedding photos are traditional so they have a higher pecking order!

(I'm starting to sound like a cranky old man now, lol) And that's another thing!! Nearly all the weddings I do there's a 2nd shooter for photos. Almost all. Occasionally I worked with a single shooter, who usually isn't even complaining just goes with the flow. I shoot video solo, and although 2 shooters seems like its becoming more popular, it's not nearly as common as photography imho. Plus I would need to raise my prices significantly to bring a 2nd shooter.

Roger Gunkel · May 13th, 2019, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

(I'm starting to sound like a cranky old man now, lol) And that's another thing!! Nearly all the weddings I do there's a 2nd shooter for photos. Almost all. Occasionally I worked with a single shooter, who usually isn't even complaining just goes with the flow. I shoot video solo, and although 2 shooters seems like its becoming more popular, it's not nearly as common as photography imho. Plus I would need to raise my prices significantly to bring a 2nd shooter.

I've rarely seen a second photography shooter who contributes anything worthwhile to the shoot and constantly gets in the way of the video. Most photographers seem to employ a second shooter simply so they can charge more. We worked with one a couple of weeks ago who said that she frequently uses her 16 year old daughter or her husband, both of whom know nothing about photography, just to look like they are taking photos. Apparently a lot of her clients expect two photographers and pay more for it!!!

Roger

Mervyn Jack · May 14th, 2019, 06:01 AM

Well I feel like a bit of an odd ball as a 61yo and about to embark on a videography career.
I've been dabbling with wedding videos for years on and off and when my day job finishes this December my plan is to go full time with wedding and event videography.
I'm already in the planning stages and learning more about social media marketing etc.
I've been reading this forum for a few years now, but I haven't had much to contribute, I'm sure that will change.
Its fascinating reading some of the stories and seeing the trends in gear. I only have a Sony A6000 and a couple of Sony domestic high end video cameras and a Sony FDR-AX3000 action cam at the moment but they have all served me well.
Before I kick off properly I'll probably buy a A6400 and one or two AX700's so I can get away from interlaced, oh and a gimbal and a Fresnel light and more stands and more audio gear.....and perhaps some streaming gear.....oh dear the shopping list is growing:-).
Anyway, I wonder who else is lurking on the forum and not saying anything. Please have a say.

Chris Harding · May 14th, 2019, 06:45 PM

Don't forget you need a drone too Merv if you want to keep up with your competitors ..that's probably the main reason why I simplified everything and went back to single camera shoots but in a niche market!

I found that the capital expenditure just wasn't worth what brides were willing to pay and a lot of your competitors have a couple of DSLR cameras from the discount house online and if they do have a drone they are perceived as better than you regardless of the fact that it is a semi-toy rather than a professional unit. Then again it's all about marketing too ..if I can offer a 6 camera shoot at a wedding as opposed to your two camera shoot then I am better than you ..the fact you have top of the range Sony's and I have 6 GoPros doesn't even enter the bride's head!!

Don't even worry about age mate ..I'm turning 73 this year and still do weddings and commercials shoots ..it's called experience!!!

March 20th, 2019, 09:18 PM	#46
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? Weddings are stressful and I can understand you can get to a point where it's not worth it. However I'm not at that point. There are plenty of jobs out there that can be stressful. I've done a few. They didn't though give me the satisfaction I get when at the end of the day, I've done a good date filming, or when I'm sending off a completed full length Wedding Video or Highlights piece. If your hearts not in it, then give it up. Or if you're doing too much, pull back. It's our own lives in the end, and how much we wish to give to our work is down to us in the end. I do agree Wedding work is probably the toughest video work you can get. Especially if you're working alone. Expectations are so much higher now. Oh and I can relate to the parking. Last Sunday, the Ceremony was in West London and I had to park half a mile from the civic building it was taking place in. Then the Reception was at a restaurant where there was no parking spaces left and I had to park on double yellow lines. Thankfully so did many of the guests, so I wasn't the only one. Being late Sunday, we were all spared a parking ticket. However such days are very much the exception for me. Most of the time, parking isn't a problem.

March 21st, 2019, 03:26 PM	#47
Steven Shea Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 58	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? I think doing them solo has been the killer for me. Just having a second set of hands to help move stuff quickly, or have one person find parking while the other gets to the location with a camera can make all the difference. I would even joke to my wife about having to remember not to be in "wedding mode" while we're driving for leisure. If we miss a turn, miss a light, and have to spend an extra few minutes, it doesn't matter! I'm so conditioned to needing those minutes really badly and being on edge about them while working. But as was said above, the feeling after a long day with well captured footage will always be satisfying, not to mention delivering the finals.

March 21st, 2019, 06:24 PM	#48
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? I have often had to ask my wife to drop me and my gear off if it's a city wedding with dubious parking ..I then will give her a call when I'm done ...However that only works for a fixed venue sadly and it's tough to expect your partner to spend the whole day as your driver ! If parking is likely to be a problem I will leave early just to be safe but often I get there maybe anything up to 90 minutes early and find a parking straight away so I have to sit on my bum for ages AND I don't get paid for that extra time! I wonder if brides even realise that if we film, say, a Church service for 45 minutes we actually spend a LOT more time than 45 minutes!!

April 3rd, 2019, 09:58 PM	#49
David Banner Major Player Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Bentonville, AR Posts: 239	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? Great thread but slow forum these days. I'm in the process of adding a couple new services to my wedding offerings - live streaming and a photo booth. Also expanded my photography gear to offer photography in the future but skills not good enough for that yet. The info about making a facebook group is interesting. I really dislike FB and haven't been on in several months (with no intention of getting on soon) but you guys do have a point that brides nearly always have their phone attached to them and are on FB. So I'll have to deal with it because that is where they are. In my area I'd say the market is not great. 20 years ago there were few competitors doing video but today there are DOZENS. And many of them will do it CHEAP. As far as the talk about forums going away, I hope not. Things sure are slow on the video forums I'm on, indeed. I find these a valuable place and since I work most of the time visiting on the forums is my fun time. You guys have been great since I first signed on here in 2011.

April 4th, 2019, 01:44 AM	#50
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? Hi David I switched to live streaming so I could create a niche market that the cheap weekend warriors couldn't get into (or were too lazy to) It is a way to work smarter not harder as you can reduce your prices (only if you have to) but shooting with a couple of static cameras feeding a switcher on a computer means that you can edit live so all the previous edit time becomes pure profit ..even if brides don't want a live feed it's still a cost effect way to record a ready to view wedding video ..no more waiting either for brides as you can deliver just days later!!

May 12th, 2019, 12:54 PM	#52
Kyle Root Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Decatur, AL Posts: 883	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? In 2017/2018 (after nearly 20 years) I really began moving away from doing wedding videos to doing wedding photos. Photos is just easier and way more forgiving and a quite frankly a lot less equipment and hassle. Of course the trade off is the responsibility is quite a bit greater because the photographer is usually running the day. I can show up, shoot the day, upload to my edit shop and relax... vs having to try and edit a video. I know there are video outsource shops, but again photo outsourcing is cheaper. I have clients fork out $2000-$4000 and not even bat an eye for photos... but man trying to get $2000 for a film is a challenge. __________________ Kyle KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com

May 12th, 2019, 02:36 PM	#54
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? I’ve done both. With photography more of the skill and work is in the front end. Get those great shots, properly, pose, frame and expose then the rest isn’t hard. With video more time and thinking is on the backend.

May 12th, 2019, 06:27 PM	#55
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? Seriously video SHOULD cost more than photos too but wedding photos are traditional so they have a higher pecking order! If you think about it you can produce a very nice set of wedding photos on a good sub $1000 bridge camera and a (decent flash if you do the reception too) and a 20 -24mp sensor will produce a very pleasing image to 99% of brides. With video to stay competitive nowdays you need multiple cameras, gimbals or a stedicam and then a drone is almost mandatory too as brides expect it! There is a much higher capital investment and a lot harder work with video compared with photos I guess brides still like the fact you can physically pick up a photo album and show it around so it has a higher perceived value If I was given an option to do a wedding for say $2000 and had the choice of video or photos I would choose photos every time ..less gear to carry, no audio to worry about and really a lot easily day!! But I'm still a videographer and that's what I enjoy even if it's lower paid and harder work it's simply the fact that we are lower down the list on bride's priorities!

May 13th, 2019, 03:53 AM	#56
Roger Gunkel Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: LIncolnshire, UK Posts: 2,213	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? Our joint video and photography package is still our most popular, but when we take a photography only package, it feels almost like a day off compared to video. With video you are trying to follow the action, setting up multiple cameras, trying to remain unobtrusive and working around the photographer, then all the editing. With photography I am in control, setting up poses, controlling the timing, no tripods and loads of gear to haul around and a much closer relationship with the family and friends. Editing and processing is far quicker. Photography is more competitive, but our joint package has a very limited number of competitors. Roger

May 14th, 2019, 06:01 AM	#59
Mervyn Jack Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Shepparton, Vic, Australia Posts: 78	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? Well I feel like a bit of an odd ball as a 61yo and about to embark on a videography career. I've been dabbling with wedding videos for years on and off and when my day job finishes this December my plan is to go full time with wedding and event videography. I'm already in the planning stages and learning more about social media marketing etc. I've been reading this forum for a few years now, but I haven't had much to contribute, I'm sure that will change. Its fascinating reading some of the stories and seeing the trends in gear. I only have a Sony A6000 and a couple of Sony domestic high end video cameras and a Sony FDR-AX3000 action cam at the moment but they have all served me well. Before I kick off properly I'll probably buy a A6400 and one or two AX700's so I can get away from interlaced, oh and a gimbal and a Fresnel light and more stands and more audio gear.....and perhaps some streaming gear.....oh dear the shopping list is growing:-). Anyway, I wonder who else is lurking on the forum and not saying anything. Please have a say.

May 14th, 2019, 06:45 PM	#60
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening? Don't forget you need a drone too Merv if you want to keep up with your competitors ..that's probably the main reason why I simplified everything and went back to single camera shoots but in a niche market! I found that the capital expenditure just wasn't worth what brides were willing to pay and a lot of your competitors have a couple of DSLR cameras from the discount house online and if they do have a drone they are perceived as better than you regardless of the fact that it is a semi-toy rather than a professional unit. Then again it's all about marketing too ..if I can offer a 6 camera shoot at a wedding as opposed to your two camera shoot then I am better than you ..the fact you have top of the range Sony's and I have 6 GoPros doesn't even enter the bride's head!! Don't even worry about age mate ..I'm turning 73 this year and still do weddings and commercials shoots ..it's called experience!!!