Vimeo shut down my account

[James Hollingsworth]

So vimeo have shut down my account after randomly selecting 3 videos and claimed they were in breach of copyright laws. This despite the fact the videos had already been online for 3+ years plus I had already removed them before receipt of their email anyhow! I had been using vimeo for 15 years and had hundreds of films on line and now I have none. Should I move to you tube, what copyright free music sites do people use for weddings? Love to start a discussion on the complicated world of online music. Many thanks.

[Bill Ackerman]

Lots of questions: Did you get takedown notices for the 3 infringing videos? Why did you take them down? Why do you say the 3 videos were randomly selected? Did you have other infringing videos on Vimeo? When you say "copyright free music site", do you mean "royalty free"?

FWIW, YouTube is very aggressive about detecting and removing infringing media.

[James Hollingsworth]

Most of my videos had popular music attached for which I had purchased ppl licences and a prs limited liability licence so was under the impression all was legit, especially as I did it for 15 years without a problem. I received one notification about a year ago for which vimeo automatically removed it. Another one earlier this year that was also removed. As a result, I then removed all videos that had been posted prior to the last 18 months, this was done over a month ago. Last week I received a notication of my account being shutdown despite the fact I had not received a third violation. When I asked about this, they claimed there were 5 new offences for which they apologised for not having notified me of. Strange thing is all 5 of these were very old videos that had already been removed by me anyhow. With regards to YouTube, I thought they allowed popular music if you didn't mind ads. Finally, yes I am also asking about quality royalty free music sites people might recommend. Thanks

[Noa Put]

The owner of eoshd has also written a post about getting 2 DMCA claims on his vimeo account with a 3rd one resulting in removing his entire account including all videos. It looks like Vimeo is being pressured to act against third party copyright infringments but they are a bit brutal in doing so, instead of only removing the films that don't comply it looks like they take everything down after a 3rd warning, even if there is properly licensed music in some of the videos.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by James Hollingsworth

Finally, yes I am also asking about quality royalty free music sites people might recommend. Thanks

I use artlist.io

[James Hollingsworth]

That looks a good site, Noa. Do you select the music from there or does your client have an input?

[Mark Williams]

I have filed over 30 DMCA takedown complaints with Vimeo where my footage was stolen and they deleted several member accounts. I applaud their aggressive efforts. On the flip side with YouTube I have received several copyrighted music complaints. I sent them the licenses that I had purchased and the complaints were resolved.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by James Hollingsworth

That looks a good site, Noa. Do you select the music from there or does your client have an input?

For everything that goes online I use artlist music as there is no limit in how many songs you can use in a film, it's a yearly fee I pay of 200euro which is very cheap taken the nr of songs I have allready downloaded and used. My wedding clients have no input in the music I use in everything that is shared online.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Mark Williams

I have filed over 30 DMCA takedown complaints with Vimeo where my footage was stolen

That's what you get when your films look so good :D but it's a good example how DMCA claims work both ways, ripping parts of your film without approval is the same as using music without approval.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

That's what you get when your films look so good :D but it's a good example how DMCA claims work both ways, ripping parts of your film without approval is the same as using music without approval.

Not really. If you're ripping of others videos and passing that work off as your own, then that is worse than using copyright music in your videos, surely.

Which would annoy you the most, finding a business using your videos to promote their venue without first seeking permission but at least crediting you as the creator of the video or someone passing off your work as something they did.

I've experience of the former but not the latter and I've no issue with one of my videos appearing on someone's website promoting their business. As long as the video shows it's my work and not theirs.

With music, it's different. Some live recordings of say the 1st Dance and the Ceremony for instance require copyright music and whether you place it online or not, if its in a video it's still an infringement.

But then is it. If YouTube montises some of this music in videos with artists approval and also where in the UK we can purchase a license to use such music in a DVD and ironically making a payment that doesn't go to the artist or record company unlike YouTube; its a more complex issue than someone ripping of your work and passing it off as your own. The law seems to pick and choose what is an infringement and depending on country, you get a different rule.

Then again aren't vows also copyright.... If so, then if you use vows or even any readings in your videos, you're as guilty as using music. What about speeches. What if a joke or comment is not of the person speakings creation, then there's copyright there potentially if sections were ripped from the internet.

Copyright is hardly black and white and I'd be surprised if any Videographer doesn't have something that could be potentially challenged in their videos. Online or not.

[Noa Put]

Not really. If you're ripping of others videos and passing that work off as your own, then that is worse than using copyright music in your videos, surely.

It's worse, yes, but it is stealing in both cases when you make money from using it to promote your business.

Which would annoy you the most, finding a business using your videos to promote their venue without first seeking permission but at least crediting you as the creator of the video or someone passing off your work as something they did.

Both would annoy me equally, wouldn't make any difference to me.

Sabam, the music rights organisation in my country is very clear about music used in weddingvideos online, you pay for a license and if you don't and they find out, they will invoice you accordingly. You would be surprised how much commercial music would cost these days and it could bancrupt my business. Everyone is free to do whatever they want, I pay for the music I use so I don't have to fear getting my account on vimeo taken down or having to close my business, it's a small price I have to pay to assure musicians get payed for their work and not have to worry about losing my business.

If taking down all accounts on vimeo that use commercial music and have been warned about it 3 times would mean that my films would not buffer so much then I would have a reason to stay on vimeo. :)

[Noa Put]

But then is it.

I know you do use commercial music in your marryoke films on your website and that youtube allows it and place links to other videos at the end of it, some of which can even be competitors videos.

The tricky part is that in my country Sabam doesn't give a rats ass what youtube allows you to use, if I have a jealous competitor that sends a link to my videos to sabam they will ask me for a license for all songs that I use and if I can't provide they will invoice.

Sabam could go out and search for those who are guilty of copyright infringments and they are easy to find but they don't seem to do that, they will act however if they would receive a complaint, that is something I'd like to avoid + having a competitors video popping up in a feed at the end of my films would also be unacceptable but that's the price I guess you pay for getting someting for "free".

[Mark Williams]

Thanks Noa. IMO U.S. copyright law looks at stealing video and music as the same. Personally I know several budding music composers and believe me their work is just as dear to them as my video work is to me. Early on I used a lot of music from incompetech.com. Once I exhausted his free library I have paid for music licenses. Mainly from jamendo, audionetwork, and Pond5. In a few instances I have been fortunate enough to receive written permission from the record company and composer/owner. I keep records of all of this in case there is a DCMA complaint made so I can defend myself. So far so good. It really isn't difficult to stay on the right side of things if you research and understand the music rights you are purchasing.

[James Hollingsworth]

I do not consider myself a music thief. I have always paid the necessary music copyright charges to PRS and MCPS. This licence presumes that not so many people are going to watch the Dvd or blu ray, making the charges affordable. I fail to see how a password protected online film that is not visible on vimeo (as I always make sure this option is checked) is any different. Only my client gets the link and the password plus I put nothing on social media.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I know you do use commercial music in your marryoke films on your website and that youtube allows it and place links to other videos at the end of it, some of which can even be competitors videos.

The tricky part is that in my country Sabam doesn't give a rats ass what youtube allows you to use, if I have a jealous competitor that sends a link to my videos to sabam they will ask me for a license for all songs that I use and if I can't provide they will invoice.

Sabam could go out and search for those who are guilty of copyright infringments and they are easy to find but they don't seem to do that, they will act however if they would receive a complaint, that is something I'd like to avoid + having a competitors video popping up in a feed at the end of my films would also be unacceptable but that's the price I guess you pay for getting someting for "free".

So how do you deal with music in the Ceremony or the 1st Dance. Do you replace the music with copyright music or leave it in. If you're delivering any video with copyright music included even if live audio from a Ceremony; I'd you're including vows or readings that are copyright, you are stealing and using it for your Business. It surely makes no difference if the video is online or sent privately, other than with one you're less likely to be caught.

With Youtube, how is using copyright music in your videos stealing, if the artist has granted approval so they can make extra cash from it. YouTube is very good at removing videos where music has not got approval. In fact it's this issue why I've taken to delivering my Marryokes privately. Only a rare few now go to YouTube these days where necessary. In the UK we can purchase a license to use music in our videos for DVD distribution, something not available in other countries and where the money doesn't go to the artist.

My point is not to defend bad behaviour but simply to raise the issue that the use of copyright music is not black and white. I'm sure some artists would be flattered to have their music used. I actually met a singer who has had their music used for Marryokes and he loved the idea and the videos. Shame no one has requested me to use his music for my Marryokes as I could have asked for permission. ;)

I suppose it depends on the person. You Noa would take offense to have your videos used without your permission. I'm more flexible. As long as no one claims my work as their own, they're free to use it to promote their Business or link it. In fact one such video was downloaded, chopped up and sections used for new videos, still with a link to the original. Again no one asked. I just discovered it. I'm not so precious about my work that I guard it from exposure. It's actually flattering if people do want to use it.