Vimeo shut down my account

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

'Being sued' is a general expression used to define any claim for damages regardless of court action. However it's just that, an expression. A lawsuit, ie legally being sued requires something to be filed with a Court of Law. Unless done in this singular instance of a Videographer being pursued for money in relations to copyright music, then legally he was not being sued.

However whether it's sued or not, makes no difference to the discussion. The guy got caught out and had to pay up regardless of the legal term for the claim.

He is also in all the years of YouTube & online videos in general the only known instance of somebody being chased for use of unlicensed music on a wedding video.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

He is also in all the years of YouTube & online videos in general the only known instance of somebody being chased for use of unlicensed music on a wedding video.

Agreed. I think the music industry has more to worry about buyers passing their music onto others. Copying say my favourite album as mp3 to my Brother so he can avoid paying for it himself affects the artist financially in a way sticking a bit of music on my video ever does.

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

Agreed. I think the music industry has more to worry about buyers passing their music onto others. Copying say my favourite album as mp3 to my Brother so he can avoid paying for it himself affects the artist financially in a way sticking a bit of music on my video ever does.

Now that the music industry has pretty much given up on CDs apart from special box sets they should be more worried about apps that allow you to rip the album from your free Spotify account at 10X real time. Then you can give it to your brother & neither of you paid for it.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

Now that the music industry has pretty much given up on CDs apart from special box sets they should be more worried about apps that allow you to rip the album from your free Spotify account at 10X real time. Then you can give it to your brother & neither of you paid for it.

The World is dominated by money. As are most motivations. Why don't most Wedding Videographers get law suits, it's because we are not worth much money. The moment a video goes viral it's assumed it's worth some money and if the artist or those who represent them, whose music is used, feels he or she isn't getting their share, they make a claim. Its that simple.

I have no problem with anyone using my video as long as I am registered as it's owner. Why, because it could potentially bring me money. If I use copyright music in my videos, unless it is felt it's bringing in more money to me than to the artist who made the music, no one has a problem with it. Why, because any publicity is good. If my videos get used, it can help my Business. Same goes for music. A Marryoke with Ed Sheeran promotes Ed Sheehan. Promotion is good. It sells. As long as it doesn't go viral and benefits me more than Ed Sheeran, he or his representative won't care. Hence why most Videographers are spared law suits. It's more damaging than any benefit from a claim can bring.

Could I pay xxxxx amount of money, no. So I'm not worth targeting and not worth the hassle or even the potential negative publicity such a claim could lead to. Only beurocratic organisations would seek damages in such cases, simply to justifuly their existence.
I could still get banned from Vimeo or blocked on YouTube. So copyright does affect me. But not for possible lawsuits by the music industry, who cream a small share from advertising and if they don't like the deal, they simply don't allow it.

The World is governed and shaped by those whose motivational reasons to do things are often personal and petty, copyright included. And if you feel that's silly, look at any political initiative, be it Brexit or Trumps laws. Few of us see or respect the bigger picture in these matters. We look out for ourselves, nothing more.

Even what is morally right is often just done as an excuse to make us feel better about ourselves or our lives a little easier.

[Nigel Barker]

In the 1920s when radio stations started playing music the record companies bleated that it would put them out of business because if people could have music for free on the radio why would they ever buy records? Eventually a way of delivering payment for radio plays was negotiated. The record companies also realised that plays on the radio were a great way of promoting the sale of records.

[David Barnett]

Well, it happened to me. I mentioned earlier I 'purchase' licenses (or what I thought were) for about $50-$60 dollars from Songreedom. I'd been meaning to still take them down from Vimeo, but they links are then embedded into my site & YT sucks for embedding due to the ads (what potential bride wants to see a commercial before my demos). Plus itd be a bit of work downloading & changing site. Still, I had intentions of doing it at some point.

Anyway, I was on my site & saw a 'This video has been removed' image in my thumbnail on my Videos page? Odd, but I thought this was coming. I searched my email for 'Vimeo' and it was about a month ago, fortunately not too long & also only 1 video.

I emailed them explaining that I thought I had licensed it from a fairly well known & established website, haven't heard back yet. Response said "As a Pro customer" I should hear back within 2 hours. That was yesterday. Anyway I dropboxed and linked it in my response. My presumption is Vimeo will just say they can't comment & I'll need to reach out to Songfreedom, and they'll likely respond with "Well, the artist still has the right to ask you remove the music if that's how they choose to handle it" like what sense does that make when they're trying to sell (verbatim) "license for streaming".

I'll keep you all posted however I'm taking all my videos down. I advise you all consider to do the same. There is an option to dispute the DMCA takedown, but it looks pretty official asking my name, address, phone # etc. I'd rather cover myself and have ALL other videos gone so as they don't ding me with more after a dispute. I'll probably redo my site and just self host 1 video, then link to youtube where I'll upload all the others again. I wish Vimeo had a simple edit function like YT. I'd just scrape the audio off if I could and keep the videos muted there myb for SEO purposes & never link them anywhere. I don't have the projects anymore, I suppose I could just open up in Premiere & mute the audio but tbh I just want them off for now.

[David Barnett]

Vimeo responded, fairly thorough response saying 'Its possible' they filed a claim while I had a license, adding 'which seems to be the case here'.

Sorta gave me confidence others maybe had similar issues. I went ahead an filed the DMCA counter. Myb it wasn't a bright idea as its only "1 strike" but just kindof upset as I have other important videos on my account also. Taking down all my weddings though. All of them.

[Danny O'Neill]

This is what we did late last year.

Like many (if not all) we used commercial music as here in the UK you can purchase a PPL so you can use it on the physical media, however that does not extend to internet use. But we took the risk. We never marketed ourselves as "You pick the music" as we dont want to edit EVERY video to John Legend or Ed Sheeran. But we would sometimes use their selection.

Early last year we took the decision to go exclusively licenced. The couples can let us know what music they like and we use that to influence our decision. But this does mean no more Ed Sheeran (huzzah!).

Then, late last year we went though and identified all videos without licences and deleted them from Vimeo. After we made sure we had the source file.

I don't expect clients from 11 years ago to notice until their anniversary comes around and they want to know where it is. But in those cases they can either watch the disk version or I can dropbox them the digital file.

Like many we simply cannot risk losing our Vimeo account and I don't like the idea of YouTube placing ads even though we have a licence. Also remember, even if YouTube flags it and the owner grants use they are not actually giving you permission to use it. They are well within their rights to still sue/seek compensation while still claiming any ad revenue.

The aim is to be ahead of the curve. So when everyone else around us is running around trying to put out the fire of having nothing online we are sitting quite pretty.

Songfreedom is great in that you can just use as much as you like for your flat monthly fee. I do believe themusicbed also has a subscription option now too.

[Tom Roper]

Originally Posted by Danny O'Neill

I don't expect clients from 11 years ago to notice until their anniversary comes around and they want to know where it is. But in those cases they can either watch the disk version or I can dropbox them the digital file.

Why would you host videos for the client? Are you using them for marketing your own business? If so I would just use licensed music. They can host their own videos with Ed Sheeran if that's their desire.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

Why would you host videos for the client? Are you using them for marketing your own business? If so I would just use licensed music. They can host their own videos with Ed Sheeran if that's their desire.

The client is most likely a bride. It be like designing a web site and haveing the client figure out the hosting. Online hosting is the preferred method of distribution high def video there isn’t a universal physical media. Weddings play copyright music during their events which sometimes you can’t take out and clients often request a popular song to be used for their video which was never a problem when you mailed them a dvd but now it seems hosting can flag it even when it’s not ment for public consumption. I film dance recitals that use copyright music. they haven't flagged me yet but could at any time. I should be able to put up samples of my work to promote myself but don’t to avoid the risks associated.

Sometimes it is feasible to purchase music with the rights to use online but this isn’t always the case.

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

Why would you host videos for the client? Are you using them for marketing your own business? If so I would just use licensed music. They can host their own videos with Ed Sheeran if that's their desire.

As Pete said, I think Danny is referring to a bride just randomly going back thru her email & searching for that vimeo link from years ago. I'll admit, I have some early ones out there (albeit with borderline porno music on it haha, but I was a newbie).

Anyway, I never really took them down, so many were from 2014-2015 which is already 5 years now. I probably do need to put it in my contract that highlights would only be up for 1 year (or something). I give it to them on USB too, but who expects them all to upload themselves. Anyway, what if a couple thinks "Oh, it's our 5/10 year anniversary, let's post our highlights video up onto FB" then searches and its gone.


I'm sure if they wrote me & I explained they'd understand, and I could just dropbox it to them, but I don't think its unreasonable to think that it could happen.

[Tom Roper]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

I give it to them on USB too, but who expects them all to upload themselves

We deliver on DVD, but I think it's reasonable to provide it on USB or Dropbox as well, help them create, license and upload to their personal YouTube account if requested, but for my self promotion it would be highlights only; I would replace the audio track with licensed music, even if that meant replacing A Thousand Years with Canon D, or do that for the client. We are at a point now, it's our job to explain the copyright problem, not pay for it nor break the law. That's how I see it, my $0.02.

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

We deliver on DVD, but I think it's reasonable to provide it on USB or Dropbox as well, help them create, license and upload to their personal YouTube account if requested, but for my self promotion it would be highlights only; I would replace the audio track with licensed music, even if that meant replacing A Thousand Years with Canon D, or do that for the client. We are at a point now, it's our job to explain the copyright problem, not pay for it nor break the law. That's how I see it, my $0.02.

Thanks, maybe I should have clarified but yeah I only upload the highlights only. Never a full length. Never been asked either. Anyway my point was I used to upload the highlights, clear the music with Songfreedom by paying $60 for the song, and left the highlights video up indefinitely. Probably no one watched them in years but it never really crossed my mind to take them down. And, for years, Vimeo was lax with music copyright infringement (I had read where they give a portion of their paid accounts $$ to the licensing companies like ASCAP & BMI, sorta like how jukeboxes work).

I wish Vimeo was a little more proactive on this, and announced a rule change in advance spreading the word to those in the field so we could work in advance of alot of this. Bummer how they handled it imho.

[Tom Roper]

I had a few old videos on Vimeo that had background music that was licensed by SmartSound. They took them down anyway. If they or Smartsound cannot figure this out, I don't see any reason for SmartSound or Vimeo.

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

I had a few old videos on Vimeo that had background music that was licensed by SmartSound. They took them down anyway. If they or Smartsound cannot figure this out, I don't see any reason for SmartSound or Vimeo.

Just curious do you host on Youtube, or self-host or a different provider?