4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Read my post again, I was refering to lenses with no stabilisation and in that case it's not possible to shoot handheld without post stabilisation.
I and others did shoot with a very limited lens choice handheld in the past, but now I can shoot handheld with my gh5 with every lens I have which is a huge difference.

Read my post again, and be less defensive (I am defensive when someone implies I cannot comprehend a post). Duh, I know you know that handheld without any stabilization at all is impossible for good video, and I agreed (read my post again, and again). That I said it is nonsense that you cannot use the Pocket PC 4K handheld is not an implication that you believe that - it is a statement aimed at those who deny it is designed to be handheld (which a number of people have asserted as they dress up the camera with heavy attachments).

So, it really comes down to a more limited lens choice, not inability to use the camera handheld. This is exactly the same as for the GH5s. And we learned that IBIS itself has disadvantages.

I agree that the GH5 is better for handheld use because of greater lens choice (and that is a big deal), if one likes the baked-in look from the camera, and the crippled 4K 60P (so no HDR using that, for example). Trade-offs.

[Noa Put]

I did read your post and I don't see you agreeing on anything I said.

[Chris Hurd]

Well, I certainly read *all* the posts in this thread, and then I read 'em again, and I'm not quite sure where the disconnect is.

So let's agree to disagree, or disagree on whatever we've agreed upon, and move forward in a polite and cordial manner.

Thanks, everybody!

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

I agree that the GH5 is better for handheld use because of greater lens choice (and that is a big deal), if one likes the baked-in look from the camera, and the crippled 4K 60P (so no HDR using that, for example). Trade-offs.

I have the vLog upgrade, so no baked in look for me and technically HDR is possible in 50p 4K, though more potential for issues due to not being 10 bit. There's no perfect camera for every video job.

[Ron Evans]

Of course if you use an Atomos external recorder with the GH5 ( S ) you can get ProRes, 10bit 4:2:2 50/60P using V-LogL or HLG . To record for an extended period of time the BM too will need external recording though nice in its case it is just a USB C SSD. It would be good if the GH5's could record using their USB C connector just like the BM. Maybe a firmware upgrade !!!

[Steve Burkett]

The recent announcement of a new Black magic RAW sounds promising and further extends the potential of this camera, should it be passed down to it and not just the URSA. I wasn't sure if it use this camera for RAW as I've heard the DNG files are a pig to edit. I planned to stick to Prices, but if this new RAW is included either on release or in upgrade, I can see me using it for some smaller jobs.

[David Peterson]

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

Yes, but for years you and others shot handheld with optically-stabilized lenses only. IBIS for *video-capable* ILC cameras is relatively new. There are plenty of MFT lenses with stabilization built in. So it is nonsense you cannot use the camera handheld.

Yup, or just use a monopod / shoulder rig / easyrig / etc for quick and easy stabilisation of your shots, I've never owned a camera with IBIS and instead I do that.

[Noa Put]

This just proves my point that the pocket cam is not a camera designed for handheld shooting, it can be for a very limited choice of lenses but even then not being able to look through a viewfinder and a lcd screen that doesn't move makes this a camera that is best used on sticks or any other kind of support.

All my real video camera's that I used in the past had stabilization build in, my vx2100, dvx100, xh-a1 and small handicams I used like the cx730, it was only when people decided to start shooting video on photocamera's that this so important feature was for a large part lost, my GH5 is my only camera so far that is giving me that freedom back of just handholding the camera with any lens I put on it, for some people this might not be a big deal but for me it is.

[Ron Evans]

I like some of the features of the camera but BMPcc4K does not really suite my shoots. A lot of the time camera is way above my head on tripod. I can control the GH5 with Olympus power zoom lens completely with the Android app on my tablet. Full camera control and framing of the lens. I think the BMPcc4K fails on all these accounts. As far as I can find out it does not have an app and likely just iOS if it does. I like the RAW recording though to future proof more the full stage archive.

[David Peterson]

The BMPCC4K is still a massively more user friendly camera to use than what I started out doing weddings with: a Panasonic GH1. And even that I found to be just fine.

But more importantly: the BMPCC4K will give a much much nicer image!

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by David Peterson

The BMPCC4K is still a massively more user friendly camera to use than what I started out doing weddings with: a Panasonic GH1. And even that I found to be just fine.

But more importantly: the BMPCC4K will give a much much nicer image!

Even if you factor out the lack of IBIS, the lack of flip screen, poor battery life, larger file sizes and possible issues - have we forgotten the infamous black sun - will make this camera less ideal for run n gun work. Which is what most Weddings tend to be. I capture between 350gbs and 800gbs per Weddding as it is.

Given the larger file sizes, I see this for small promo work, music videos and even documentaries and indie movies. Or as a b camera for the URSA. As I replacement to my very useful and versatile GH5, it's a definite NO.

[David Peterson]

Shoot BMD's new braw format, or ProRes LT

The data rates would hardly be much more unreasonable than you'd be getting with the best out of your GH5

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by David Peterson

Shoot BMD's new braw format, or ProRes LT

The data rates would hardly be much more unreasonable than you'd be getting with the best out of your GH5

Best out of GH5 and that's 400mbps. I don't shoot that for Weddings. Shooting 150mbps every Wedding and I've got so many hard drives already, I'm almost out of letters to assign them to. :). I'm creating 2 hour videos for my Weddings, 80 a year. It'll be madness to shoot RAW with that number.

[Steve Burkett]

I did bump into an assistant Photographer who boasted he filmed Weddings on a Red camera with enormous file sizes. I assume he was targetting the Highlights only customers. Those who feel a Wedding Video is 5 minutes long. With that sort of output, RAW becomes viable. But unless you're charging 3k for your Weddings, it's not sustainable and probably why this guy scratches a living working as an assistant to a Professional Photographer.

I'm sure there'll be those who will find a way to work the Pocket 4K for Weddings. Some have worked phones, 16mm cameras, Canon cameras and others with some major restrictions, so the Pocket 4K is no different. However the original Pocket became quite famous for its wonderful image and yet those who purchased it rarely seemed to use it or even talk much about it after a few months of use. You have to wonder why?

[David Peterson]

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

I did bump into an assistant Photographer who boasted he filmed Weddings on a Red camera with enormous file sizes. I assume he was targetting the Highlights only customers. Those who feel a Wedding Video is 5 minutes long. With that sort of output, RAW becomes viable. But unless you're charging 3k for your Weddings, it's not sustainable and probably why this guy scratches a living working as an assistant to a Professional Photographer.

I'm sure there'll be those who will find a way to work the Pocket 4K for Weddings. Some have worked phones, 16mm cameras, Canon cameras and others with some major restrictions, so the Pocket 4K is no different. However the original Pocket became quite famous for its wonderful image and yet those who purchased it rarely seemed to use it or even talk much about it after a few months of use. You have to wonder why?

Yeah I have a friend who uses 2x REDs for weddings. Madness! As even worse, is a RED ONE :-o

Anyway, $3K is a pretty mainstream price for a wedding, so not unreasonable from that perspective

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

Best out of GH5 and that's 400mbps. I don't shoot that for Weddings. Shooting 150mbps every Wedding and I've got so many hard drives already, I'm almost out of letters to assign them to. :). I'm creating 2 hour videos for my Weddings, 80 a year. It'll be madness to shoot RAW with that number.

Of course not raw! I'd use ProRes LT with my BMPCC, a single card would last me all day long and more!