Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

[Nigel Barker]

In the UK at least the number of weddings each year is inexorably going down despite an increase in population.

[Steven Digges]

I know at least some of the wedding shooters here know I am one of the few "event guys" that frequents this section. I don't say much about wedding specific things because thats not my specialty. But I chime in when I have something to contribute. I have followed the posts here for many years.

I am glad the subject of declining participation came up. I have avoided the subject out of respect for Chris. I did not know how to bring it up properly. I do know that Chris has always had a very hands off approach to governing this site. He has said many times that it is OUR community. So....I am not speaking for him and I hope he corrects me if I am wrong. I think we can all help this amazing forum thrive again. It is not just the wedding and event subforum that is lacking in participation. It is forum wide. At one time the numerous wedding guys were almost a forum of their own. Some of you asked all of your technical questions here regardless of the topic, because you wanted to hear from wedding guys. Even if it was about audio, lighting cameras etc. In the last couple of years I have noticed several of the veteran wedding guys active in many of the other subforums. I would encourage all of you to do that. Lately there are new boots and returning members checking us out. You will find them in the other forums. Some of you guys have an amazing amount of knowledge and experience to share. By branching out of the wedding forum for technical discussions in the proper category you will help bolster the community as a whole.

DVINFO is and always has been the best information resource for video professionals and enthusiasts. Let's do everything we can to RALLY and keep this place strong. We are all video professionals, we just happen to shoot different specialties. There is a wealth of information here and it is all over this forum.

Kind Regards,

Steve

And thank you Chris Hurd for providing an information resource for me since 2002!

[Chris Harding]

Hey Steve

At over 8000 posts (mostly here too!) This is my most valuable resource if I need advice or can give it too. I have noticed that because we are in the Southern Hemisphere we are just exiting Summer but the vast majority of people that post here are just exiting Winter and not many brides choose a chilly Winter wedding. The forum always perks up around end of May anyway so not to worry! I really don't think the slowing down of activities is anything to worry about and very few groups on Facebook have technical wedding questions ..To be honest I haven't seen any "Wedding Video" or "Event Forum" groups on Facebook so I really cannot see the issue ... DVInfo still (and will always be) my first choice when my computer gets turned on as already said, we are a family. You can post a question here and go to bed and you will be sure some kind soul has answered you in the morning ..You don't find help like that anywhere else!

[Noa Put]

To be honest I haven't seen any "Wedding Video" or "Event Forum" groups on Facebook so I really cannot see the issue ...

That's because the biggest ones are completely hidden from view, one I attended for a while had over 11000 (but could also been 13000, don't recall exactly) members and new posts every day, sometimes responses on posts where maybe 2 or 3 or sometimes no reactions but sometimes quickly ran up to a hundred in a very short timepriod. There is more going on on Facebook then meets they eye :)

[Steve Burkett]

More members isn't a good thing. Debate even amongst a small group can get out of hand as we can all testify to on this site. A site with over 10000 contributing is almost impossible to admin properly and I find frequently Facebook comment sections encourages short but pointless replies. I rarely contribute to any groups I belong to. For some its gets quite addictive, until social media becomes more important than your real life.

[Tony McGuire]

I am a new commer in the video work as it started as a bit of a hobby. My main thing is computer repairs and lighting as in stage lighting for shows. What started me was coveing for a friend at a event that he could not do as he was not well that night.

I enjoy reading the post here on the forum and have learned a lot from you guys here and even if someone seem to have asked a stuped question it still get answered nicely and it you all make it seem like it was not a stuped question as it may help others out who may not want to ask.

I spend more time on here and other forums alike not just the video world but to do with lighting as well.

I am a member of a few facebook groups and they are not the same as a lot of te forums out there. I find that they are very much for pros who will not ask the obvious and if a new commer does ask one they are made feel they should know the answer and if they don't they should not be doing it.

[Chris Harding]

Hey Tony

If you have a question that needs an answer then how can it be stupid. Remember we not only ask questions on DVInfo but we also answer questions ... I might have a huge problem with filming under stage lighting which I cannot solve myself but you can and that's where the "family" part comes in..if you don't ask questions you never learn and part of the family is to also give your opinions and help to others who have a lot less experience than you have. That's where is works so well!!

[Tony McGuire]

Hi Chris,

Thats why I like the forums. everyone is treats each other like they are family and there is no hate in answering question.

I know alot of people say facebook is destroying forum it maybe but there is always be forum that stand out better than groups on facebook. It is also easier to search and find posts and things alike on a forum than on facebook. I find facebook sometime it pick what it wants you to see not what you want to see which gets up my nose and that putting litely

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Tony McGuire

I am a member of a few facebook groups and they are not the same as a lot of te forums out there. I find that they are very much for pros who will not ask the obvious and if a new commer does ask one they are made feel they should know the answer and if they don't they should not be doing it.

Some facebookgroups can be a bit hostile and you are right that newcomers generally are looked down upon, much has to do with the often almost complete absence of moderation and it can take quite a while before a admin reacts to discussions that compelety have derailled. The same if you are a budget shooter you get blamed for taking the entire industry down, it's also the most asked and discussed topic, how much you make and how much you could be making. The bigger names in the industry make good use of those discussions to silently promote their workshops. The most given tip how to make more money is to see what you are charging now and double that, that's it, genius right? :)

I also have to say that they also do contain a lot of valuable stuff like when they talk about gear or some members can also be very helpfull, not all are big egos, I once had someone translate a entire Kantonese speech into english for me so that I could edit it myself so these groups have been an advantage to me, as long as you are able to filter though the crap there is some good to be found.

[Rob Cantwell]

Where have all the Brides gone? well for me thats the problem!
Seems like a lot here are happy with a few clips on a smartphone and a couple of minutes live on Facebook, then thats it.

Theres only about three or four videographers in my immediate area and maybe they're getting everything I dunno, but it's dried up for me. Perhaps the millennials arent as into video - who knows?

I still have stills work coming up, even bookings for next year, but nada for video.

I've already sold off some of my video gear.

Oh yeah! as far as Facebook is concerned I've never been a member, never will either, I think it's toxic, maybe that why I'm not getting clients! still not going to join up tho.

[Roger Gunkel]

Originally Posted by Rob Cantwell

Where have all the Brides gone? well for me thats the problem!
Seems like a lot here are happy with a few clips on a smartphone and a couple of minutes live on Facebook, then thats it.

Theres only about three or four videographers in my immediate area and maybe they're getting everything I dunno, but it's dried up for me. Perhaps the millennials arent as into video - who knows?

I still have stills work coming up, even bookings for next year, but nada for video.

I've already sold off some of my video gear.

Oh yeah! as far as Facebook is concerned I've never been a member, never will either, I think it's toxic, maybe that why I'm not getting clients! still not going to join up tho.

Hi Rob,

Last year was our busiest ever year and this year we have equalled it, although the vast majority of our weddings are for the combined video and photography package. Because we find it easy to combine both we can give a big discount over the price of both individually, so we find that many couples who may not have thought about video are attracted by the combined price.

It could also be down to marketing, which we keep very personal. We do around 10 medium and small wedding shows per year which give us a chance to talk face to face with couples and they have been very successful for us. We also have a Facebook business page, which was slow for the first few months, but after a couple of years now it brings in a steady flow of enquiries. We keep a regular blog on FB so that couples can see what we have been doing and enjoy seeing what other couples have done. Many couples come back to the page regularly even months and years after their wedding just to view other weddings and keep in contact. We also make a point of visiting every single enquiry, as it gives a chance to show both our video and photo work. We put taster pictures on the FB page, which clients love and it gives a chance for others to see our work. One of our recent wedding's taster pics had around 1500 shares amongst their family and friends. If you message me, I'll be happy to give you our FB address to give you some idea of how we use it and comments from clients.

I think personal visits are the best possible sales tool, as our success rate of visits to bookings is over 90% and it gives a chance to build a rapport with the couple. If they like your work, it often comes down to whether or not they like you and we often hear stories of how friends of our clients didn't get on with other photographers and videographers. Investing your time in the sale pays dividends in my opinion.

Roger

[Chris Harding]

Hi Rob

I guess we should be envious that Roger is doing well but he does work very hard on his marketing and doing photo/video packages also helps! Brides seem to like "all-in-one" packages so maybe team up with some other suppliers

I dislike Facebook too but I do advertise in Facebook groups ..You don't need to be active on your own page and post what you had for lunch and what colour socks you have on today!! Just an occasional post in bridal groups and a link to your webpage is all you need.

The biggest issue where we are is best shown by a post yesterday where a bride was asking for a videographer as hers was already booked for December ...the booked videographer was charging her $450 to cover the ceremony and reception up to the end of the first dance ..Are you kidding me? Excluding booking chats, travelling etc etc she would clock up at LEAST 6 hours or more shooting and at LEAST a day to edit and package ... Just based on hours she is earning $30 an hour before any running costs!! I wouldn't even try to compete with those prices and I'm sure you wouldn't either ..!! Our live stream shoots (which are edited live so NO post processing) are at least double these prices. Maybe she shoots the wedding on an iPhone but I have no idea but something like this would definately make videographers look elsewhere for work!!

[Roger Gunkel]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi Rob

I guess we should be envious that Roger is doing well but he does work very hard on his marketing and doing photo/video packages also helps! Brides seem to like "all-in-one" packages so maybe team up with some other suppliers

I dislike Facebook too but I do advertise in Facebook groups ..You don't need to be active on your own page and post what you had for lunch and what colour socks you have on today!! Just an occasional post in bridal groups and a link to your webpage is all you need.

The biggest issue where we are is best shown by a post yesterday where a bride was asking for a videographer as hers was already booked for December ...the booked videographer was charging her $450 to cover the ceremony and reception up to the end of the first dance ..Are you kidding me? Excluding booking chats, travelling etc etc she would clock up at LEAST 6 hours or more shooting and at LEAST a day to edit and package ... Just based on hours she is earning $30 an hour before any running costs!! I wouldn't even try to compete with those prices and I'm sure you wouldn't either ..!! Our live stream shoots (which are edited live so NO post processing) are at least double these prices. Maybe she shoots the wedding on an iPhone but I have no idea but something like this would definately make videographers look elsewhere for work!!

Hi Chris,

I think the combined package has brought in a lot of video work that we may otherwise not have had, but it's definitely about a balance between marketing, quality, price and relationship with the client. Your $450 lady may just be filming with one handheld camera and have limited editing. That's why we place so much emphasis on making sure that potential clients know exactly what they are getting for their money and encourage them to check carefully what others supply.

Although we have as much work as we want, I don't think we are anywhere near the number of weddings that Steve Burkett has, although I wouldn't want to handle that editing load. In the UK, I think there is plenty of work out there if you market correctly. For the real big money, you probably need to involve more operators and delegate some of the work to employees/subcontractors, but at my age I don't have a requirement any more to build an empire.

Roger

[Danny O'Neill]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

In the UK at least the number of weddings each year is inexorably going down despite an increase in population.

Everyone is holding out for 2020 dates.

[Chris Harding]

Thanks Roger

Yeah combined packages certainly do help a lot!! Nope I haven't seen what this lady produces but I wonder if brides base their decision on a single demo clip ... she does photos too at just as crazy prices ! On Facebook she has a long list of new brides saying "PM me I'd like to book!" Even if you have a full time job I wonder if working for minimum wage rate is worth it?? If she adds up her costs she's probably working for under $20 an hour!! They all seem to be either cutting each other's throats or offering a host of free extras like 3 videographers, drones cranes and work until midnight!! I'm glad we are out of that side of video!!