That extra long aisle..... at DVinfo.net

Jennifer Graves · October 20th, 2005, 03:39 PM

I have a wedding next month at a church where the aisle is about 150 feet. The prob, I'm only allowed to film from the balcony. (Church rules). I'm using gl2's right now (hoping to upgrade soon) but that's what I have to work with. I'm going to need either a telephoto lens attachment or I've heard people talk about doublers to add on. Does anyone have any recommendations on what works well for them?

A.J. Briones · October 20th, 2005, 04:31 PM

pardon my ignorance, but what's a doubler?

Jennifer Graves · October 20th, 2005, 05:53 PM

It's an attachment lens that just doubles the zoom your camera already has.

Jason Chang · October 20th, 2005, 09:58 PM

Jennifer,

The balcony is in the back of the church. I don't think you can get a good shot from that position, given the distance. Is there another camera shooting the groom's perspective? If not, I would suggest that you try to mix in with the guests. That way you can get a guest's POV of the bride coming in. Don't share your plan with the priest though.

p.s. Have someone close the doors behind the bride, so that you wouldn't have back light problem.

Jason

Jennifer Graves · October 21st, 2005, 07:35 AM

No cameras (video or still) are allowed to be on the main floor during the ceremony, whether you are a guest or professional. This church is very strict, they can't even have bubbles or rice or anything afterwards, they can't even have a receiving line...... If I leave the balcony I'll probably be escorted out, haha. That's my dilema, it's up in the balcony or nothing.....

Dan Shallenberger · October 21st, 2005, 09:01 AM

How about the possibility of putting a small, unmanned camera on sticks somewhere closer behind a fake tree or column or something? Probably not allowed I imagine, but worth asking about if you haven't already.

I've used a doubler on my PD170, and the final footage is ok. It's not very sharp, and some saturation is gone, but it's better than having no video at all. The b&g will have to take what they can get given the strict circumstances you have to work under.

How about renting an XL-1/s/2? I don't know if you have any rental opportunities where you are, but they both have 20x lenses that would do a great job without any additional glass. Just a thought.

Good luck!

Dan

Jennifer Graves · October 21st, 2005, 09:10 AM

The gl2 has the 20x optical zoom so I'll have a descent wide shot. I was just wondering how those doublers worked. I figured they lost a little quality, but didn't know if it was still worth looking into.

Dan Shallenberger · October 21st, 2005, 09:33 AM

I'm sorry... I did read that you had a GL-2, but was thinking of my PD170's 12x when suggesting the 20x xl-1 rental.

Anyhow, the footage is very useable, but noticibly more degraded the more zoomed in you are, especially in lower light. If the light is bright and strong, it will look pretty good. With the Century Optics tele I used, the degredation I noticed most was a loss of sharpness. I did lose some saturation also, but I worked with that in post and it looked great. The loss of sharpness I tried hiding with some highlight glow effects, and it helped. Also, you better have a very steady tripod with one of those on your lens.

I think it's definitely worth looking into. I suggest using a tele-x on just one camera. Then if you like the footage, use a lot of it in your edit. If not, rely on the other camera more and use the tighter footage for just the more important moments.

Dan

Jennifer Graves · October 21st, 2005, 09:41 AM

Thanks for the info, very helpful!!

A.J. Briones · October 21st, 2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer Graves

No cameras (video or still) are allowed to be on the main floor during the ceremony, whether you are a guest or professional. This church is very strict, they can't even have bubbles or rice or anything afterwards, they can't even have a receiving line...... If I leave the balcony I'll probably be escorted out, haha. That's my dilema, it's up in the balcony or nothing.....

wow, not even for the guests? in this case, just chill out at the balcony and get the shots you can. the ceremony is a wash for both photos and video, so it's not your fault. 20x should be enough to get a wide, but you might not be able to get any closer. and now that i know what a doubler is, i actually use one (clip-on wide angle for the vx). i like it a lot. i have never used a doubler to increase zoom, however, so i have no experience with that.

imho, you'll just have to live with so-so ceremony coverage and make up for it in the prep, photo session and reception shots. i hope the shoot goes well!

John Bennett · October 21st, 2005, 10:36 AM

It seems to me that your major problem is camera position instead of, or in addition to, distance. At 150 ft with my GL1 at 20x, the width of the image is about 7 feet, a fairly tight shot. With a 2X tele-extender, you'll have a tighter shot, but a tighter shot of the backs of people. You could do your own experiment with your camera at 15 ft. Measure the width of the field and multiply by 10.

Talk to the bride and groom so they'll know what to expect. Then, as someone else said, just don't worry about the ceremony coverage.

Kevin Shaw · October 21st, 2005, 03:15 PM

This sounds like one time when the 20x zoom on the Canons will come in handy. I don't think I'd worry too much about trying to modify that, since any additional glass you add to your lens (like a doubler) may detract from image quality more than it will add in terms of tighter shots. If you do decide to use a lens doubler, only do so on one camera so the other one gets a cleaner shot. Plus the camera would have to be ultra rock-solid at 40x magnification, and even at 20x that could be a problem.

My suggestion would be to set up one camera at either corner of the balcony so you get different angles on the bride's and groom's faces from those positions, and pretty much leave it at that. At the end of the ceremony grab one camera and follow the couple outside, so you can at least get some close up shots of them hugging people right after the ceremony.

Marion Abrams · October 21st, 2005, 07:43 PM

If you use a doubler you might want to think about bringing a field monitor. I expect your depth of field will be very narrow, a monitor might help you focus.

Craig Terott · October 24th, 2005, 10:07 AM

Use manual focus with that much zoom! I know my cams tend to wonder in and out on AF, the more I zoom.

David Chandler-Gick · November 7th, 2005, 01:38 AM

Jennifer,

which church? Sounds like First Pres...

Also, a 2x adapter is going to cost you an f stop or 2... Just so ya know.

October 20th, 2005, 03:39 PM	#1
Jennifer Graves Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	That extra long aisle..... I have a wedding next month at a church where the aisle is about 150 feet. The prob, I'm only allowed to film from the balcony. (Church rules). I'm using gl2's right now (hoping to upgrade soon) but that's what I have to work with. I'm going to need either a telephoto lens attachment or I've heard people talk about doublers to add on. Does anyone have any recommendations on what works well for them?

October 20th, 2005, 09:58 PM	#4
Jason Chang Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Diego, CA USA Posts: 163	Solution Jennifer, The balcony is in the back of the church. I don't think you can get a good shot from that position, given the distance. Is there another camera shooting the groom's perspective? If not, I would suggest that you try to mix in with the guests. That way you can get a guest's POV of the bride coming in. Don't share your plan with the priest though. p.s. Have someone close the doors behind the bride, so that you wouldn't have back light problem. Jason

October 21st, 2005, 07:43 PM	#13
Marion Abrams Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Vermont, USA Posts: 72	If you use a doubler you might want to think about bringing a field monitor. I expect your depth of field will be very narrow, a monitor might help you focus. __________________ Tweed River Video - fine wedding films hand made in Vermont www.Tweedrivervideo.com Madmotion, llc - broadcast and commercial production www.madmotion.com

November 7th, 2005, 01:38 AM	#15
David Chandler-Gick Echoes from the Backyard Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Posts: 35	Jennifer, which church? Sounds like First Pres... Also, a 2x adapter is going to cost you an f stop or 2... Just so ya know. __________________ -DJ www.DavidChandlerGick.com

October 20th, 2005, 04:31 PM	#2
A.J. Briones Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 275	pardon my ignorance, but what's a doubler?

October 20th, 2005, 05:53 PM	#3
Jennifer Graves Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	It's an attachment lens that just doubles the zoom your camera already has.

October 21st, 2005, 07:35 AM	#5
Jennifer Graves Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	No cameras (video or still) are allowed to be on the main floor during the ceremony, whether you are a guest or professional. This church is very strict, they can't even have bubbles or rice or anything afterwards, they can't even have a receiving line...... If I leave the balcony I'll probably be escorted out, haha. That's my dilema, it's up in the balcony or nothing.....

October 21st, 2005, 09:01 AM	#6
Dan Shallenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 253	How about the possibility of putting a small, unmanned camera on sticks somewhere closer behind a fake tree or column or something? Probably not allowed I imagine, but worth asking about if you haven't already. I've used a doubler on my PD170, and the final footage is ok. It's not very sharp, and some saturation is gone, but it's better than having no video at all. The b&g will have to take what they can get given the strict circumstances you have to work under. How about renting an XL-1/s/2? I don't know if you have any rental opportunities where you are, but they both have 20x lenses that would do a great job without any additional glass. Just a thought. Good luck! Dan

October 21st, 2005, 09:10 AM	#7
Jennifer Graves Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	The gl2 has the 20x optical zoom so I'll have a descent wide shot. I was just wondering how those doublers worked. I figured they lost a little quality, but didn't know if it was still worth looking into.

October 21st, 2005, 09:33 AM	#8
Dan Shallenberger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 253	I'm sorry... I did read that you had a GL-2, but was thinking of my PD170's 12x when suggesting the 20x xl-1 rental. Anyhow, the footage is very useable, but noticibly more degraded the more zoomed in you are, especially in lower light. If the light is bright and strong, it will look pretty good. With the Century Optics tele I used, the degredation I noticed most was a loss of sharpness. I did lose some saturation also, but I worked with that in post and it looked great. The loss of sharpness I tried hiding with some highlight glow effects, and it helped. Also, you better have a very steady tripod with one of those on your lens. I think it's definitely worth looking into. I suggest using a tele-x on just one camera. Then if you like the footage, use a lot of it in your edit. If not, rely on the other camera more and use the tighter footage for just the more important moments. Dan

October 21st, 2005, 09:41 AM	#9
Jennifer Graves Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	Thanks for the info, very helpful!!

October 21st, 2005, 10:36 AM	#11
John Bennett Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 25	It seems to me that your major problem is camera position instead of, or in addition to, distance. At 150 ft with my GL1 at 20x, the width of the image is about 7 feet, a fairly tight shot. With a 2X tele-extender, you'll have a tighter shot, but a tighter shot of the backs of people. You could do your own experiment with your camera at 15 ft. Measure the width of the field and multiply by 10. Talk to the bride and groom so they'll know what to expect. Then, as someone else said, just don't worry about the ceremony coverage.

October 21st, 2005, 03:15 PM	#12
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	This sounds like one time when the 20x zoom on the Canons will come in handy. I don't think I'd worry too much about trying to modify that, since any additional glass you add to your lens (like a doubler) may detract from image quality more than it will add in terms of tighter shots. If you do decide to use a lens doubler, only do so on one camera so the other one gets a cleaner shot. Plus the camera would have to be ultra rock-solid at 40x magnification, and even at 20x that could be a problem. My suggestion would be to set up one camera at either corner of the balcony so you get different angles on the bride's and groom's faces from those positions, and pretty much leave it at that. At the end of the ceremony grab one camera and follow the couple outside, so you can at least get some close up shots of them hugging people right after the ceremony.

October 24th, 2005, 10:07 AM	#14
Craig Terott Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 691	Use manual focus with that much zoom! I know my cams tend to wonder in and out on AF, the more I zoom.