The sell on value of niche products!

[Clive McLaughlin]

Some will have seen my post about an Ebay auction last week. I followed the advice of some guys, and started the auction at 99p to gain loads of 'watchers', added loads of video reviews, gave a great description, talked about it's second hand cost on other sites....

and then the auction ended yesterday and I'm pretty pissed off!

It went for £196 - I'd rather kept it in a drawer as a spare than sold it for that!

I bought it for £600/£650 I think - two years ago, and the only places I can see it selling elsewhere online are two used sellers on Amazon - £530 and £520.

Leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Sorry - just a little rant as I set off to package it up...

Feel free to share similar stories!

[Noa Put]

Wasn't it your cx730? I was planning to sell some of my gear as well the following months but like you said fear that it just won't be worth it and better to keep on using them for the odd occasion I might need a multicam setup.

My cx730's are mainly used for longer continuous events and they have performed brilliantly, I think I paid around 830 euro for them but with all these 4K handicams coming out their resale value has gone down, I still think for families that want an easy camera to get great looking footage with the "HD" cx730 would still be a better choice then a 4K handicam because most don't even have a suitable pc to edit 4K. I even got a groom that wanted to know what type of camera I used and he bought a cx730, I saw him at his friends wedding where I had to shoot and he was telling how happy he was with the camera which he used for holidays.

Same applies for my gh3, new it can be had for around 800 euro now, selling this one second hand will also be difficult.

[Jeff Harper]

There is a way to research on Ebay to see what an item's sale price history is. This would have showed you what you could have expected to get.

[Rainer Listing]

Look on the bright side - you now have £196 to spend on something you need, instead of something which you'd never use cluttering up your storage space and which if you'd sold next year you would have got less for, and you've made someone happy because they think they got a bargain. There's thousands of people still hanging on to worthless VHS gear solely because it initially cost them heaps.

[James Manford]

That makes me sick.

I paid £900 for my PJ780VE (which is pretty much the CX730) ...

£4,500 for a pre-owned FS700 (without 4K firmware) and now they go for £2000-2500 (WITH the 4k firmware).

It's all luck. The best thing to do in my opinion is put everything on buy it now with best offer. Never do 99p auctions. It's just way too risky.

[Mike Watson]

It's been 3.5 years since the FS700 came out. If it was really $4500 then (which is close to what it was brand new) and you could sell it for $2000 now, you've spent $2500 on a camera for 3 years. That's $71/month. Anyone with any talent should be getting $71 an HOUR for shooting, leaving you the remainder of the month to make profit.

I just got an FS5 to replace my FS100, and was thinking... I paid $4500 for that (used) FS 100 four years ago. It's probably worth $1k now. I'm pulling down $100k a year on a camera that cost me $900 a year. A frickin' bargain.

[Clive McLaughlin]

I could have put on a Buy It Now, and just kept relisting and stuck to my guns. I would say if I wanted it to go at £400, I'd have probably been waiting a few months...

But the reality is, It's that time of year, I was doing a clear out, and was looking for money.

Mike is of course correct - and the gear cost is a drop in the ocean compared with the money it makes us - but gear just used to have a longer career, and earn you money for longer - it still just sucks.

I play some fantasy football, and pay for transfers almost weekly to try to put out the best possible team - I often feel I just need to trust what I have, and let them earn points for a good run.

That may be the same with gear. I may just need to ignore the new product releases for a few years, and just concentrate on my product...

[Robert Benda]

I know you can check the historical price of an item on Amazon using a Chrome extension called Camel Camel Camel. They have a website, too, though I just use the extension. Shows Amazon's, 3rd party new, and 3rd party used prices. Very handy.

If you want to sell something for a set price, doing it used on a site like Amazon (or here) seems like the best choice. To sell it no matter what, eBay is the way.

[Nigel Barker]

I have sold quit a lot of stuff on eBay over the years. Research what the items sell for by searching eBay on Sold then you will have a realistic price. Then sell as a Buy It Now. If it's a more unusual item the you can sel by Auction but put a reserve price on then you won't be gutted when it sells for a pittance.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Clive -

Sorry about your stink-o auction result...

Mike is 110% correct. The online "auction" ONLY works if you're selling a "hot" product... ebay no longer has the page views, traffic, and buyers the way it used to, PERIOD. That means if you use auction format on a high $$ value (but relatively niche interest) item, the odds are VERY good that you'll get a crap final sale price.

If you have a mis-spelling, or otherwise fail to optimize your listing, it can be even worse... you won't even get seen! This means you'll get picked of by someone who specifically searches for the listings that are not seen by ebay's "WORST MATCH EVER" (they call it "best match"... pfffft) algorithm. No one knows what's baked into their search algorithm, but I can guarantee you, it's not favorable if you don't at least try to optimize your listing to what MIGHT be in the algorithm!!

HD cameras still have a market, but it's not what it was, with cell phones having eliminated many "average buyers"... plus prices are soft around the holidays when everyone is buying NEW stuff for other people.... so really good gear can go for peanuts!

I posted on your original posting, said it then... sorry to hear you instead took ebay's advice on how to list (they want you to start low, and sell low, they want VOLUME... and the cheapest sale price still gives them a "Final Value Fee" even if you gave your stuff away!!). When you realize the cut they will take on your lousy outcome auction, you'll be even sicker! They don't care if they give you the worst possible "advice".... and believe me, as a seller, if they give me "free advice", I typically RUN in any other direction!!!

The reason they give you some "free" listings is they know NO SANE PERSON would pay to list with what they currently deliver, and they hope you'll put your stuff up CHEAP. I won't go into using the "suggested prices" that they "give" you - do your own research on sales prices, and don't trust a single thing ebay says about what you should sell for!! The coder that created their "average selling price" calculator had no idea how you calculate an "average" - it can be as much as 90% "off", 30-50% is typical!!


I made a HUGE mistake earlier this year when they offered a "special" (reduced FVF if memory serves) and listed a few things "auction format", it was horrific, and I don't think I'll ever do it again, unless it's something I just want rid of, and don't care what I get (and even then I'd at least protect by putting an opening bid high enough to cover my shipping costs!!). I had one thing that sold for opening bid, about half of verified sale prices, and not only that the buyer put some cheap crap memory card (from ebay!) in it... and when the camera didn't work, blamed the camera, causing me a LOT of grief over a sub $20 sale!!!



Let's say you asked 400 BIN, w/best offer.... sure a few bozos would offer you the 200 you got, and if that was all you got, you might even take that... but I can virtually guarantee you would have gotten more, even if it wasn't 400! If the 400 was a GOOD DEAL, you might even have had someone snag it, I know I look for those sort of bargains myself! I've also picked off a few steals from auction listings that don't see any competitive bidding too...


I do quite a bit of ebay, saves me HUGE amounts over buying "new", and by listing correctly, I get decent returns... sometimes even buying from someone who lists the way you did, if it's something I decide I don't "need", but was too cheap to resist, and I can put it back up and make some spare change!

As a final thought, ebay should not be approached "casually", you MUST know a bit about what you're doing, or you'll quickly become very discouraged!

[James Manford]

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

It's been 3.5 years since the FS700 came out. If it was really $4500 then (which is close to what it was brand new) and you could sell it for $2000 now, you've spent $2500 on a camera for 3 years. That's $71/month. Anyone with any talent should be getting $71 an HOUR for shooting, leaving you the remainder of the month to make profit.

I just got an FS5 to replace my FS100, and was thinking... I paid $4500 for that (used) FS 100 four years ago. It's probably worth $1k now. I'm pulling down $100k a year on a camera that cost me $900 a year. A frickin' bargain.

I understand but I've only had mine for 14 months now. And prices in the UK / Europe always stay much higher than eBay USA for some reason.

[Mike Watson]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Mike is 110% correct. The online "auction" ONLY works if you're selling a "hot" product...

To be clear, these are two separate thoughts. I'm correct, and then Dave's completely separate and disparate thought on the issue that I disagree with.

Originally Posted by James Manford

I understand but I've only had mine for 14 months now. And prices in the UK / Europe always stay much higher than eBay USA for some reason.

Then the problem is not that you got ripped of selling an FS-700, the problem is you got ripped off buying an FS-700.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Originally Posted by James Manford

It's all luck. The best thing to do in my opinion is put everything on buy it now with best offer. Never do 99p auctions. It's just way too risky.

Apologies, Mike, somehow a brain cloud conflated your correct posts about value and James' post about auctions...

Equipment seldom goes up in value (thus why I much prefer to buy slightly used, hopefully at a significant discount), but if a tool does the job and makes a return (monetary or otherwise), that should be satisfaction enough. It's still hard when you watch prices just collapse on something you own, but it is what it is, "last years model" won't bring the same $ when this years' hits the shelves - that's just how it goes... cars, electronics, phones, cameras... seldom go UP over time! I'm sure the HDV cam I kept around to dump a stack of tapes will probably cause a tear when I see what it'll sell for...

If one does it right, and takes care of their gear, it's a "bonus" to be able to recover a good part of the value from a used piece to go towards the latest and greatest. Clive unfortunately violated about every rule of selling on "today's ebay" if one wants to get decent results...

[Clive McLaughlin]

Ha! Dave, I violated every rule? A bit harsh there?

How many listings do you see with links to review videos and links to other sites showing the 'going price'.

In fact, in my previous thread in which I was worried it would go for too litlle and then decided to cancel the auction, I was told by some that my error was having my starting price too high. I was advised that a low starting price would gain more interest and 'watchers'.

My only crime was that I needed to sell gear, and didn't have the time to wait months for an unusual product to sell at it's actual value on a buy it now.

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But... a development - the buyer said the screen is wobbly! (I never thought it was a defect to be honest). He has asked for a return.
I said 'Are you sure? You bought this for £196, when they are going used on Amazon for £530'.
But he said he wanted to return it.

He got no arguments from me!

[Noa Put]

Did your camera have a lcd screen that was a bit loose? I often see products on ebay where they describe certain defects so you are aware about it and shouldn't complain afterwards, I"m not sure what ebay's policy is for users that are not satisfied, are you obligated to take the camera back, even if they complain about a defect that has been mentioned before?