Camcorders only

Jack Walsh · November 21st, 2015, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

An AX100 is about the same price as a GH4r with a wide angle lens so take your pick.

Hmm, food for thought!

Will have to get some info on lenses for the GH4.

Nigel Barker · November 21st, 2015, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walsh

Hmm, food for thought!

Will have to get some info on lenses for the GH4.

Note that I specified the GH4r which is the version with no recording limit.

Jack Walsh · November 21st, 2015, 11:00 PM

So the GH4 would be cheaper again.

I'm pretty sure that there is no limit on Australian models.

Haven't read much on the GH4r yet, but I will.

Chris Harding · November 21st, 2015, 11:35 PM

If you buy an genuine Australian GH4 that actually comes from a dealer, yes, there is no record limit ...the grey imports might be cheaper but they could also have a limit depending where they are sourced from.

My GH1 had no time limit but the firmware had been hacked ...I got that really cheap from the USA and the hack allowed a higher bit rate, NTSC/PAL switching and no time limit so you could always find something like a GH2 or GH3 that has been worked on but remember they won't have any 4K modes.

My issue with the GH4, as great as it is, is having to buy new micro2/3rd lenses ..ouch ..that's why I went with the FZ1000's

Steve Burkett · November 22nd, 2015, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

My issue with the GH4, as great as it is, is having to buy new micro2/3rd lenses ..ouch ..that's why I went with the FZ1000's

Not quite true. There are adapters for other lens systems like Canon and Nikon if you own any of those, though with some loss of functionality.

Seeking 4k for an unmanned camera, the ax100 has easy setup and maybe longer battery life in its favour. GH4, the chance to add further faster lenses down the line. The fz1000 has a cheaper price, but a recording limit, albeit with remote control via smartphone. There are other options of course. No right answer for everyone, so down to budget, how it would fit in with your other equipment and whether it's being used in very low light situations.

Jack Walsh · November 22nd, 2015, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

My issue with the GH4, as great as it is, is having to buy new micro2/3rd lenses ..ouch ..that's why I went with the FZ1000's

I'm hearing you Chris, seriously considering an LX-100 for Low light, "Dance floor. etc" for that reason. Lens and body in one, sorta thing! 15 minute 4K pretty useless though...
They seem to be getting cheaper too!

Jack Walsh · November 22nd, 2015, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

Not quite true. There are adapters for other lens systems like Canon and Nikon if you own any of those, though with some loss of functionality.

Good point. I'm trying to get accurate info on the functionality of canon primes with the GH4, seeing that I do have some useful canon lenses.
Those adapters aren't cheap.

Chris Harding · November 22nd, 2015, 01:48 AM

Sure, I have a nice selection of Nikon mount lenses but I'm lazy!! I prefer to use AF on the camera or at least half shutter press to focus. I ran my EA-50's with Nikon mount lenses and manual focus and it's a lot harder work than push the shutter to focus .. I do like to seek the easy way out and apart from bridal entry I use the FZ1000's without continuous focus ..it's much easier to just half press the shutter ..see what's in focus and record!!

Jack Walsh · November 22nd, 2015, 02:41 AM

Yeah, if I was to get the GH4s I would be using AF compatible only.
So that would mean selling my Canon and going to Panasonic lenses!!!??

Gotta start somewhere I guess!

Steve Burkett · November 22nd, 2015, 12:36 PM

Some useful points. GH4 in 4k mode has poor af. Compared to the HD mode, where it is much more reliable, I find in 4K it can find focus then lose it. Even in situations outdoors where you think a deep depth of field would help, it can go in and out of focus. As I predominantly shoot 4k, I do a lot of manual focus, often just setting focus using af before hitting record, then adjusting as and when. Some micro 4/3 lenses like slr magic and voigtlander are manual focus anyway.

In 4K mode, focus becomes even more critical. Indoors especially, its important to check rather than rely on af. Unless you're shooting with a high aperture, I find I have to set focus to a point in the room to ensure as many of the guests are in focus, as the larger sensor and low aperture can contribute to a narrower depth of field even in wide angle. This can end up looking terrible if you're cropping the 4K image in post production. In some ways a smaller 1" sensor can have an advantage there, as depth of field is naturally deeper.

Although I use a GH4r as a B camera, and benefit from easier colour matching in edit, unless you're running a GH system throughout, like I am, more flexibility can be had with something like an AX100, unless low light is a serious issue for you. By all means trade in your main camera for a GH4, but for a B and C camera, you may wish to look to camcorders.

Jack Walsh · November 22nd, 2015, 04:36 PM

Good info Steve, food for thought.
We can be too reliant on auto focus. been caught out even with camcorders. Learnt the hard way!
Been using a Sony FX1000 for the Aisle cam for ceremonies, then fixed on main speaker at reception, recording Pro Res to Ninja Star. Can get in to trouble if I forget to switch it to man focus after setting in auto.
Will replace the FX with something smaller that shoots 4K, and is good in low light.

Is there a quick way to change the GH4s back to manual focus during recording?
I've done absolutely no research on the GH4, so time to start I guess.

Steve Burkett · November 23rd, 2015, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walsh

Is there a quick way to change the GH4s back to manual focus during recording?
I've done absolutely no research on the GH4, so time to start I guess.

There's a switch on the GH4 that allows you to go from auto focus to manual; it can be used during recording, so I can sometimes use it to get a lock then switch to manual.

Phil Stanley · November 24th, 2015, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walsh

Good info Steve, food for thought.
We can be too reliant on auto focus. been caught out even with camcorders. Learnt the hard way!
Been using a Sony FX1000 for the Aisle cam for ceremonies, then fixed on main speaker at reception, recording Pro Res to Ninja Star. Can get in to trouble if I forget to switch it to man focus after setting in auto.
Will replace the FX with something smaller that shoots 4K, and is good in low light.

Is there a quick way to change the GH4s back to manual focus during recording?
I've done absolutely no research on the GH4, so time to start I guess.

I set my G7 up for BBF, I then use it to acquire focus with one press and as soon as released you are in manual

Christopher Young · November 26th, 2015, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I have attached a varavon loupe to the lcd screen so I can hold it to my eye

Noa if you don't mind me asking what model is that Varavon? Is it the low angle EX Supporter for the Canon 60D? Looks like a reasonable setup for bright outdoors.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Robert Benda · November 26th, 2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

Not quite true. There are adapters for other lens systems like Canon and Nikon if you own any of those, though with some loss of functionality.

Seeking 4k for an unmanned camera, the ax100 has easy setup and maybe longer battery life in its favour. GH4, the chance to add further faster lenses down the line. The fz1000 has a cheaper price, but a recording limit, albeit with remote control via smartphone. There are other options of course. No right answer for everyone, so down to budget, how it would fit in with your other equipment and whether it's being used in very low light situations.

I'd add the Samsung NX1 into that mix. 4K. Somebody just announced they were easily able to eliminate the recording time limit entirely in its firmware. You can charge it via USB (while recording, I believe), which seems super nice. It also got the best reviewed focus tracking between it, the GH4 (which did OK), and the Sony A7r (which got terrible video focus tracking reviews... might have been the A7r 2).

My main hesitation is that its a whole new lens system for me. *sigh* Darn it, Canon, stop being so terrible. I love my 70D,but rumors don't mention the upcoming 80D having 4K.

/just saw Steve's info about the GH4 doing poorer with focus tracking in 4K. Good note. Thank you.

November 21st, 2015, 11:00 PM	#78
Jack Walsh Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Valentine NSW, Australia Posts: 91	Re: Camcorders only So the GH4 would be cheaper again. I'm pretty sure that there is no limit on Australian models. Haven't read much on the GH4r yet, but I will.

November 21st, 2015, 11:35 PM	#79
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Camcorders only If you buy an genuine Australian GH4 that actually comes from a dealer, yes, there is no record limit ...the grey imports might be cheaper but they could also have a limit depending where they are sourced from. My GH1 had no time limit but the firmware had been hacked ...I got that really cheap from the USA and the hack allowed a higher bit rate, NTSC/PAL switching and no time limit so you could always find something like a GH2 or GH3 that has been worked on but remember they won't have any 4K modes. My issue with the GH4, as great as it is, is having to buy new micro2/3rd lenses ..ouch ..that's why I went with the FZ1000's

November 22nd, 2015, 01:48 AM	#83
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Camcorders only Sure, I have a nice selection of Nikon mount lenses but I'm lazy!! I prefer to use AF on the camera or at least half shutter press to focus. I ran my EA-50's with Nikon mount lenses and manual focus and it's a lot harder work than push the shutter to focus .. I do like to seek the easy way out and apart from bridal entry I use the FZ1000's without continuous focus ..it's much easier to just half press the shutter ..see what's in focus and record!!

November 22nd, 2015, 02:41 AM	#84
Jack Walsh Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Valentine NSW, Australia Posts: 91	Re: Camcorders only Yeah, if I was to get the GH4s I would be using AF compatible only. So that would mean selling my Canon and going to Panasonic lenses!!!?? Gotta start somewhere I guess!

November 22nd, 2015, 12:36 PM	#85
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: Camcorders only Some useful points. GH4 in 4k mode has poor af. Compared to the HD mode, where it is much more reliable, I find in 4K it can find focus then lose it. Even in situations outdoors where you think a deep depth of field would help, it can go in and out of focus. As I predominantly shoot 4k, I do a lot of manual focus, often just setting focus using af before hitting record, then adjusting as and when. Some micro 4/3 lenses like slr magic and voigtlander are manual focus anyway. In 4K mode, focus becomes even more critical. Indoors especially, its important to check rather than rely on af. Unless you're shooting with a high aperture, I find I have to set focus to a point in the room to ensure as many of the guests are in focus, as the larger sensor and low aperture can contribute to a narrower depth of field even in wide angle. This can end up looking terrible if you're cropping the 4K image in post production. In some ways a smaller 1" sensor can have an advantage there, as depth of field is naturally deeper. Although I use a GH4r as a B camera, and benefit from easier colour matching in edit, unless you're running a GH system throughout, like I am, more flexibility can be had with something like an AX100, unless low light is a serious issue for you. By all means trade in your main camera for a GH4, but for a B and C camera, you may wish to look to camcorders.

November 22nd, 2015, 04:36 PM	#86
Jack Walsh Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Valentine NSW, Australia Posts: 91	Re: Camcorders only Good info Steve, food for thought. We can be too reliant on auto focus. been caught out even with camcorders. Learnt the hard way! Been using a Sony FX1000 for the Aisle cam for ceremonies, then fixed on main speaker at reception, recording Pro Res to Ninja Star. Can get in to trouble if I forget to switch it to man focus after setting in auto. Will replace the FX with something smaller that shoots 4K, and is good in low light. Is there a quick way to change the GH4s back to manual focus during recording? I've done absolutely no research on the GH4, so time to start I guess.