Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal at DVinfo.net

Noa Put · November 13th, 2015, 04:58 AM

I have been using my beholder almost exclusively the last 3 weddings I did and left my blackbird steadicam in the trunk of my car as bakcup. I can talk about how it was to work with it but I rather show a trailer that consist for a major part out of beholder footage with a gh3 and a 12mm lens.

I don't want to share the trailer publicly, not even with a password but I can show it to members of this forum here if you just PM me and I will provide a link and password. It's not that the contents are so sensitive but I have no approval to share and even in the members area with a password it could end up in the wrong place, if I receive direct requests by PM then I at least know who is viewing it and narrow the viewers down to exactly who is interested to see what this stabilizer is capable off. This trailer will only be online for a limited time.

If you have any questions about the stabilizer then ofcourse I can answer them if I know the answer. :)

Steve Bleasdale · November 13th, 2015, 06:46 AM

Cheers Noa, i would say its pretty smooth, smoother than my hd glidecam 4000. Is the footage slowed down 70% or more? Was it the gh4 on there. The photog just did not want to get out of your way ha? Steve

James Manford · November 13th, 2015, 06:48 AM

Can you email me the link Noa

I don't see any PM functions in this forum!?

Would this be an ideal tool to use with an A6000 ? how QUICK is the set up and can you put it down easily when not using it.

Steve Bleasdale · November 13th, 2015, 06:54 AM

Beholder MS1 3 Axis Electronic Gimbal Camera Stabilizer for A7S/GH4/BMPCC video | eBay

This link in Belgium? Any good Noa? Seems cheap and can get more down in price if provide my vat number

James Manford · November 13th, 2015, 11:15 AM

Just watched the video Noa. Fantastic trailer once again.

Looks like an amazing device.

The footage I watched, any POST stabilization applied ? or is that raw footage with just colour grading.

How long does it take to set up ? Once set up is it easy to put down say if I need to quickly run to the toilet or have a meal ?

Noa Put · November 13th, 2015, 03:15 PM

The trailer footage has been slowed down 50% and about half of it was post stabilized in edius using a stabilizer plugin. The gimbal does introduce jitters when you move fast, especially if you are walking on a uneven floor and the camera shakes left to right then causing these small jitters. Edius stabilization sometimes does a great job, sometimes not at all, much depends if there are any nearby objects passing while you walk that can confuse the plugin. If you move slowly with the gimbal, like when I do with the first dance circling the couple, then the footage looks fine.

The initial balancing of the camera can be cumbersome, there is only a small tripod plate that you can move left to right on your camera and front to back on the gimbal. The problem is to find the right balance point left to right you first need to attach the tripodplate to your camera and tighten the screw not too much so your camera can slide sideways, then slide the camera onto the gimbal, then move your camera sideways to find the balance point but when you have found that, you can't tighten te screw of the tripod plate because you have to take your camera of the gimbal again hoping you don't accidental move it to left or right. Once it's of the gimbal you can tighten the screw.

This initial balancing took the longest for me but once I found the right place for the tripodplate I made a marking on the tripodplate where the screw is so following times it's just a matter of placing the tripodplate to the right position where I marked it and tighten the screw.

Then it's very easy to do the final balancing, you just slide the camera onto the gimbal and slide it forward and backward until it balances and then tighten te screw. I use a gh3 with a 12mm at weddings so I just attach the tripod plate to the camera before i leave and at the wedding it takes me 30-60 seconds to have camera stabilised.

What I don't like:

The tripodscrew is of poor quality, it's a soft metal that easily can get damaged, I use a 2 euro cent to tighten it but I fear that sooner or later the groove to put the coin in might get damaged to much, not sure if a new screw can be easily found that fits.

It sometimes is difficult to slide the tripodplate into the gimbal sled as there is much friction, not sure what is causing this.

Often the sled which holds the camera leans a bit to the left or right after I start up the gimbal, this is fixable by placing the handle on a straight surface and pushing the joystick on front for 2 seconds, the stabilisation then shuts off and restarts and then it recalibrates the sled so it's horizontal again. Only sometimes I have to redo that after a while.

You cannot adjust parameters of the gimbal, this would allow you to take out any jitters, if you know what you are doing but otherwise it does have the advantage of just working like it is without any further trial and error of changing parameter setting in the software.

Panning motion is harder to control, when you turn the handle left or right it starts to turn but it's difficult to maintain a smooth motion when panning.

The start up button is very small but can be accidental pushed in, it has happened more then once that I pick the gimbal up and that the gimbal activated while that was not the intention.

You cannot flip out the lcd screen and it's not very easy to see the lcd screen on the back of the camera.

Eventhough my gh4 with a 12mm and 9-18mm balances easily as soon as I add a small microphone on top of the camera I"m not able to balance it anymore, not sure why that is.

What I like:

There is a screw hole under the handle so you can attach a minitripod to it, or a tripodplate so you can place it on a tripod when not in use, or you can attach it to a belt, like the photogs use to attach their dslr to their waste, don't know the name for that.

It's very fast to set up and start shooting.

It's insensitive to wind and it always stays level so you can do some very cool and controlled movements.

The battery seems to last quite long, I still had a green light after using it quite long each wedding.

It's very small and light and it folds up nicely so you can place it together with the camera in a small bag.

There are hard stops when turning the gimbal sled so you cannot accidental break the wiring.

The gimbal motors are quiite strong so you can do simple operation on your camera without the gimbal going haywire like the enbula 4000 does.

Noa Put · November 13th, 2015, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale

Beholder MS1 3 Axis Electronic Gimbal Camera Stabilizer for A7S/GH4/BMPCC video | eBay

This link in Belgium? Any good Noa? Seems cheap and can get more down in price if provide my vat number

Not sure if this guy will provide you with an invoice that has salestax mentioned separately but you can always ask, if I convert to euro it's about the same price as I paid for mine.

Steve Bleasdale · November 13th, 2015, 04:28 PM

Cheers Noa thanks for your time and great explanation.

Noa Put · November 13th, 2015, 05:02 PM

I will send you a new link shortly to a second film but with some raw unedited footage so you get a much better idea of the gimbal performance. They contain longer continuous shots.

James Manford · November 13th, 2015, 05:26 PM

Thanks for the comprehensive write up.

Noa Put · November 14th, 2015, 02:24 AM

You also might consider the Beholder DS1, their new version which is 200 dollar more but looks more versatile. The MS1 is certainly not perfect but for it's price it's more then decent, I wanted to try such a stabilizer out but wanted to spend as less as possible. I have had the nebula 4000 before for a few days to try out but was not impressed, I would say it performed the same out of the box but you could fine tune parameters on that one to smooth out jitters, that is if you understand what you where doing because there is no clear manual available.

I did enjoy using the beholder the past weddings, I used it a lot more then my blackbird, being able to do all these controlled moves that are impossible to do with the blackbird or just to shoot outside, even when it's windy is very addictive. :) + it gives your film a higher production value as it makes it look more professional.

Peter Rush · November 14th, 2015, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale

Cheers Noa thanks for your time and great explanation.

If you buy within th EU Steve i think there is no import tax to pay

Noa Put · November 14th, 2015, 02:42 AM

I order a lot from the UK and never have to pay additional taxes and as company I buy tax free as VAT is not charged on EU sales to Non-UK based EU customers with VAT number, the only thing you need to watch out for with companies like Panamoz is that some say tax is included and no extra costs for the client but when you ask for a vat free invoice or ask if vat is mentioned on the invoice they all say they are a not a VAT company so basically the price you see does not allow you to deduct the tax.

Noa Put · June 12th, 2016, 02:39 AM

What I always feared finally happened yesterday, my beholder ms1 refused to start up. I was absolutely sure the battery was fully loaded as I had a green blinking light at the end of the charging period and when I wanted to start up the gimbal at the venue it did...nothing, nada.

Good thing I had my blackbird in the trunk of my car as backup and it saved the day.

Now lets see how good their customerservice is.

Noa Put · June 12th, 2016, 04:27 AM

Weird, I just attached the battery to the loader to notice it was completely drained, yesterday while loading I had it next to me and could see it starting off with a red light only, then longer and longer green flashes in between and eventually a full green light meaning fully charged. I did put the battery the first time in the beholder when I needed it, before that it was in a sidepocket of a bag that holds the gimbal. So this means the battery has drained itself empty overnight. This needs some more investigation.

November 13th, 2015, 04:58 AM	#1
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal I have been using my beholder almost exclusively the last 3 weddings I did and left my blackbird steadicam in the trunk of my car as bakcup. I can talk about how it was to work with it but I rather show a trailer that consist for a major part out of beholder footage with a gh3 and a 12mm lens. I don't want to share the trailer publicly, not even with a password but I can show it to members of this forum here if you just PM me and I will provide a link and password. It's not that the contents are so sensitive but I have no approval to share and even in the members area with a password it could end up in the wrong place, if I receive direct requests by PM then I at least know who is viewing it and narrow the viewers down to exactly who is interested to see what this stabilizer is capable off. This trailer will only be online for a limited time. If you have any questions about the stabilizer then ofcourse I can answer them if I know the answer. :)

November 13th, 2015, 06:46 AM	#2
Steve Bleasdale Trustee Join Date: May 2010 Location: England liverpool Posts: 1,343	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal Cheers Noa, i would say its pretty smooth, smoother than my hd glidecam 4000. Is the footage slowed down 70% or more? Was it the gh4 on there. The photog just did not want to get out of your way ha? Steve

November 13th, 2015, 06:48 AM	#3
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal Can you email me the link Noa I don't see any PM functions in this forum!? Would this be an ideal tool to use with an A6000 ? how QUICK is the set up and can you put it down easily when not using it. Last edited by James Manford; November 13th, 2015 at 11:14 AM.

November 13th, 2015, 06:54 AM	#4
Steve Bleasdale Trustee Join Date: May 2010 Location: England liverpool Posts: 1,343	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal Beholder MS1 3 Axis Electronic Gimbal Camera Stabilizer for A7S/GH4/BMPCC video \| eBay This link in Belgium? Any good Noa? Seems cheap and can get more down in price if provide my vat number

November 13th, 2015, 11:15 AM	#5
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal Just watched the video Noa. Fantastic trailer once again. Looks like an amazing device. The footage I watched, any POST stabilization applied ? or is that raw footage with just colour grading. How long does it take to set up ? Once set up is it easy to put down say if I need to quickly run to the toilet or have a meal ?

November 13th, 2015, 03:15 PM	#6
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal The trailer footage has been slowed down 50% and about half of it was post stabilized in edius using a stabilizer plugin. The gimbal does introduce jitters when you move fast, especially if you are walking on a uneven floor and the camera shakes left to right then causing these small jitters. Edius stabilization sometimes does a great job, sometimes not at all, much depends if there are any nearby objects passing while you walk that can confuse the plugin. If you move slowly with the gimbal, like when I do with the first dance circling the couple, then the footage looks fine. The initial balancing of the camera can be cumbersome, there is only a small tripod plate that you can move left to right on your camera and front to back on the gimbal. The problem is to find the right balance point left to right you first need to attach the tripodplate to your camera and tighten the screw not too much so your camera can slide sideways, then slide the camera onto the gimbal, then move your camera sideways to find the balance point but when you have found that, you can't tighten te screw of the tripod plate because you have to take your camera of the gimbal again hoping you don't accidental move it to left or right. Once it's of the gimbal you can tighten the screw. This initial balancing took the longest for me but once I found the right place for the tripodplate I made a marking on the tripodplate where the screw is so following times it's just a matter of placing the tripodplate to the right position where I marked it and tighten the screw. Then it's very easy to do the final balancing, you just slide the camera onto the gimbal and slide it forward and backward until it balances and then tighten te screw. I use a gh3 with a 12mm at weddings so I just attach the tripod plate to the camera before i leave and at the wedding it takes me 30-60 seconds to have camera stabilised. What I don't like: The tripodscrew is of poor quality, it's a soft metal that easily can get damaged, I use a 2 euro cent to tighten it but I fear that sooner or later the groove to put the coin in might get damaged to much, not sure if a new screw can be easily found that fits. It sometimes is difficult to slide the tripodplate into the gimbal sled as there is much friction, not sure what is causing this. Often the sled which holds the camera leans a bit to the left or right after I start up the gimbal, this is fixable by placing the handle on a straight surface and pushing the joystick on front for 2 seconds, the stabilisation then shuts off and restarts and then it recalibrates the sled so it's horizontal again. Only sometimes I have to redo that after a while. You cannot adjust parameters of the gimbal, this would allow you to take out any jitters, if you know what you are doing but otherwise it does have the advantage of just working like it is without any further trial and error of changing parameter setting in the software. Panning motion is harder to control, when you turn the handle left or right it starts to turn but it's difficult to maintain a smooth motion when panning. The start up button is very small but can be accidental pushed in, it has happened more then once that I pick the gimbal up and that the gimbal activated while that was not the intention. You cannot flip out the lcd screen and it's not very easy to see the lcd screen on the back of the camera. Eventhough my gh4 with a 12mm and 9-18mm balances easily as soon as I add a small microphone on top of the camera I"m not able to balance it anymore, not sure why that is. What I like: There is a screw hole under the handle so you can attach a minitripod to it, or a tripodplate so you can place it on a tripod when not in use, or you can attach it to a belt, like the photogs use to attach their dslr to their waste, don't know the name for that. It's very fast to set up and start shooting. It's insensitive to wind and it always stays level so you can do some very cool and controlled movements. The battery seems to last quite long, I still had a green light after using it quite long each wedding. It's very small and light and it folds up nicely so you can place it together with the camera in a small bag. There are hard stops when turning the gimbal sled so you cannot accidental break the wiring. The gimbal motors are quiite strong so you can do simple operation on your camera without the gimbal going haywire like the enbula 4000 does.

November 13th, 2015, 04:28 PM	#8
Steve Bleasdale Trustee Join Date: May 2010 Location: England liverpool Posts: 1,343	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal Cheers Noa thanks for your time and great explanation.

November 13th, 2015, 05:02 PM	#9
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal I will send you a new link shortly to a second film but with some raw unedited footage so you get a much better idea of the gimbal performance. They contain longer continuous shots.

November 13th, 2015, 05:26 PM	#10
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal Thanks for the comprehensive write up.

November 14th, 2015, 02:24 AM	#11
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal You also might consider the Beholder DS1, their new version which is 200 dollar more but looks more versatile. The MS1 is certainly not perfect but for it's price it's more then decent, I wanted to try such a stabilizer out but wanted to spend as less as possible. I have had the nebula 4000 before for a few days to try out but was not impressed, I would say it performed the same out of the box but you could fine tune parameters on that one to smooth out jitters, that is if you understand what you where doing because there is no clear manual available. I did enjoy using the beholder the past weddings, I used it a lot more then my blackbird, being able to do all these controlled moves that are impossible to do with the blackbird or just to shoot outside, even when it's windy is very addictive. :) + it gives your film a higher production value as it makes it look more professional.

November 14th, 2015, 02:42 AM	#13
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal I order a lot from the UK and never have to pay additional taxes and as company I buy tax free as VAT is not charged on EU sales to Non-UK based EU customers with VAT number, the only thing you need to watch out for with companies like Panamoz is that some say tax is included and no extra costs for the client but when you ask for a vat free invoice or ask if vat is mentioned on the invoice they all say they are a not a VAT company so basically the price you see does not allow you to deduct the tax.

June 12th, 2016, 02:39 AM	#14
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal What I always feared finally happened yesterday, my beholder ms1 refused to start up. I was absolutely sure the battery was fully loaded as I had a green blinking light at the end of the charging period and when I wanted to start up the gimbal at the venue it did...nothing, nada. Good thing I had my blackbird in the trunk of my car as backup and it saved the day. Now lets see how good their customerservice is.

June 12th, 2016, 04:27 AM	#15
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Beholder 3 MS1 axis gimbal Weird, I just attached the battery to the loader to notice it was completely drained, yesterday while loading I had it next to me and could see it starting off with a red light only, then longer and longer green flashes in between and eventually a full green light meaning fully charged. I did put the battery the first time in the beholder when I needed it, before that it was in a sidepocket of a bag that holds the gimbal. So this means the battery has drained itself empty overnight. This needs some more investigation.