Outsourced editing?

[Max Palmer]

I'm curious about outsourcing editing (long-form, DVD/Bluray edits, not short film/highlights) in the U.S. Approx. what does this sort of thing cost with multicam edits, color correction and between 50-100GB of footage? Do people generally find the results satisfactory?

Just trying to get a ballpark here to see if it's something I should pursue. Usually takes me about 10-20 hours (depending on how much finessing it needs) to comb through my footage, sync up multicam edits, edit and color correct.

[Arthur Gannis]

Outsourcing your work may cost so much and cutting into your profit so that it may not be worth it. Here in New Jersey I have seen the rates go from fixed ( $400 to 800 ) and hourly from $25 to $50 on multicam shoots. 10 to 20 hours seems about average time ballpark but even so, and averaging it out to 15 hours along with averaged $35/ hr. you're still looking at the $750 mark. There are many editors that will probably be cheaper and lower prices during the winter months but you really have to see their work. Some will even lower their rates if enough jobs are given. I used to know a private editor that did only ethnic multicam editing and charged a flat rate $500 and knock off easily 3 jobs a week. There are also companies that also do it but their rates are over the roof like $1500+. Pricing varies greatly as there are no set standards here. There may be many great editors that do not have enough shootings but have time and resources to take on editing contracts to supplement their income.

[Steve Bleasdale]

Originally Posted by Max Palmer

I'm curious about outsourcing editing (long-form, DVD/Bluray edits, not short film/highlights) in the U.S. Approx. what does this sort of thing cost with multicam edits, color correction and between 50-100GB of footage? Do people generally find the results satisfactory?

Just trying to get a ballpark here to see if it's something I should pursue. Usually takes me about 10-20 hours (depending on how much finessing it needs) to comb through my footage, sync up multicam edits, edit and color correct.

Obviously UK here, i have my family who i trained to cut the ends fine tune and get rid of all those crap bits, if any these days but it helps for me to then create the story and film. But no one can replicate your final edit and it will not be good enough for you so i would get the simple arduous stuff done then you move in. I pay £10 per hour for the bits and bobs

[Jim Arco]

Originally Posted by Max Palmer

I'm curious about outsourcing editing (long-form, DVD/Bluray edits, not short film/highlights) in the U.S. Approx. what does this sort of thing cost with multicam edits, color correction and between 50-100GB of footage? Do people generally find the results satisfactory?

Just trying to get a ballpark here to see if it's something I should pursue. Usually takes me about 10-20 hours (depending on how much finessing it needs) to comb through my footage, sync up multicam edits, edit and color correct.

There is a time and talent difference between "assistant editor work" like capturing tapes, logging footage and syncing multicam as opposed to more artistic work like editing, titles, menu design, music selection, color-correction, and grading. We sometimes do event program editing, usually at $40 per hour (our computer, our software, our location) and it averages about 25-40 hours for weddings. This significantly cuts into the markup and makes it cost-prohibitive for most markets. It can run a lot more if you need high-end color-grading, lots of fancy titling, lower thirds, music sync, etc. A 100GB of footage is about 8 hours and, if I didn't shoot it, requires some time to just comb through it and see what is there. You can probably find someone to just log and sync your footage in 5-8 hours.

The hourly-rate may sound high, but there are several challenges here. The first being that a talented editor needs to make a living AND needs a high-end computer with expensive software (both of which need upgrading or replacing every year or so.) If I'm really running a business, I probably should charge $10-20/hour just to cover the equipment. The only way I can think of to reduce the time required is to produce quantities of programs that are very much alike.

It seems like most of our ongoing demand in this area is for less time-intensive work like "rescuing" segments of footage with poor exposure or mixed lighting, color-grading of an already-edited program, motion titles/lower thirds, menu design, and even super-8 film transfers/corrections for 'growing-up' montages.


Jim
Colorburst Video

[Max Palmer]

Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale

Obviously UK here, i have my family who i trained to cut the ends fine tune and get rid of all those crap bits, if any these days but it helps for me to then create the story and film. But no one can replicate your final edit and it will not be good enough for you so i would get the simple arduous stuff done then you move in. I pay £10 per hour for the bits and bobs

That's basically what I want. I want some of the grunt work done, since I can't dedicate 8 hours a day to doing any of this. I would want trim garbage, clips on timelines, multicam edits synced. Possibly some audio balancing. All the artistic license things, would be done by me so that I can assure that my clients the style that they're hiring ME for.

[Steve Bleasdale]

Spot on max, train a college kid up to your standard, there will be someone willing to learn editing. Steve

[Ian Atkins]

I edit the footage that is released to the public: the highlight videos.
Then I pay an editor to do the full-length DVD copy when I am extremely busy. He does a fantastic job and we have an agreed upon rate of $400/wedding since it takes me 8 hours to cut a full-length video.

[Phil Stanley]

Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale

Obviously UK here, i have my family who i trained to cut the ends fine tune and get rid of all those crap bits, if any these days but it helps for me to then create the story and film. But no one can replicate your final edit and it will not be good enough for you so i would get the simple arduous stuff done then you move in. I pay £10 per hour for the bits and bobs

Steve, when you say cut out the crap bits do you do this before bringing it into your editing program, or do you do this inside your editing program.

The reason I ask is because at the last wedding I had a static camera set up which only only wanted a few clips from but is was running for about 40 minutes resulting in a large file.

My preferred method would be to sub-clip it prior to loading into my editor (Premiere CC) is this possible?

[Arthur Gannis]

Originally Posted by Ian Atkins

I edit the footage that is released to the public: the highlight videos.
Then I pay an editor to do the full-length DVD copy when I am extremely busy. He does a fantastic job and we have an agreed upon rate of $400/wedding since it takes me 8 hours to cut a full-length video.

That's great Ian, which goes to show a full length editing job can be done in 8 hours. I do mine in around the same time knocking off 2 per week leaving me 3 days leisure time. That's the way it should be. I just do not understand how and why many have edit backlogs and only do like under 30 jobs a year. Either they procrastinate or take hourly breaks every half hour.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Arthur Gannis

That's great Ian, which goes to show a full length editing job can be done in 8 hours. I do mine in around the same time knocking off 2 per week leaving me 3 days leisure time. That's the way it should be. I just do not understand how and why many have edit backlogs and only do like under 30 jobs a year. Either they procrastinate or take hourly breaks every half hour.

Or working quite differently to yourself. I take on 60 weddings a year. Technically I can edit a Ceremony in 2-3 hours, Speeches in 2, the rest in 4. However that is after I've logged all footage, which can take 5 hours to a day depending on the Wedding.

As to why I have a backlog, well lets see, I film 2-3 Weddings a week in the summer. I do a Highlights for each one, which takes 4 hours per video. There's prep time to consider for each Wedding, researching venues, checking equipment, cleaning lenses etc. General admin, answering emails and phone calls. DVD production, including a 30 minute version of the video and additional content like Guest Messages. Meeting up with clients. I also do Marryokes for some of my Weddings and they can take between 8-20 hours to produce depending on their complexity.
Long term, over the summer I'll be doing the following, backing up files, updating my website, keeping my office tidy. Updating records, changes of address, changes to music choices, updating my Sample DVD and Service Pack I send to clients; marketing. Any adverts need to be worked on in Photoshop. Sometimes I'm doing extra work for Photographers, DJ's, Musicians, Magicians I meet at Weddings and who request a video from my filming of them.
Updating my Income and Expenses and keeping all accounts in order. Sending out Invoices. Testing new equipment like the gimbal I purchased mid season. Checks on my car. Visits to the bank to post cheques.

If I only had to consider work on producing a full length video for each client every week in the summer, I'd no doubt enjoy the 2-3 days of leisure you currently have and have no backlog. Alas I don't outsource my work either.

[Arthur Gannis]

Yes, we all seem to work quite differently. If I had to do all of that , I would have retired a long time ago. Here is my secret simple method:
As soon as I get home from every wedding, no matter how late it is, I dump the entire job onto my hard drive and put all the batteries on charge. The next day's wedding I do the same. Monday morning after I wake up late and had a a few coffees I start editing the first job and make sure it is fully edited . I do same for 2nd job the following day by which time the first job is being encoded to DVD on the 2nd computer. I do not do any fancy slider and bokeh stuff or do retakes of scenes at bridal prep. I do not do interviews, carry lots of gear, use 2nd cameraman, use tripod, supplemental lighting, or any stuff I don't need. I don't edit ceremony or speeches, it is what it is. I just use 2 transitions type, fades and dissolves. I don't do re-edits as it is clearly written on the contract. My clients know me as being unobtrusive and not Mr. Robocop with all the bells and whistles. I charge much lower than my competitors and most of my bookings were referred by venues and past clients. I also work with a photog that we refer clients to each other and have a discounted package. I don't advertise, no need to as I have enough on my hands. I keep thing sweet and simple and I have become rather lazy over the years. Believe it or not, I use iMovieHD with Toast titanium for my editing and menu chapter creation. Works like a charm. Everything done with a pair of 2009 iMac 27 inch with the lowly i5 processor. New clients are handled by my wife at home only on Thursday and Friday evenings by appointment only. I also figured that by the time 4K becomes popular, I won't need to worry about hardware upgrades as I will be turning 65 and retire from all this.

[Steve Burkett]

It is a simpler way of working, but definitely not for me. My clients come to me specifically because of the bells and whistles I offer. Not all clients want the simple basic video, others have different expectations for their video. Some even forfeit a deposit with another Videographer they're booked with and book me instead after seeing my work at a Wedding. 3 clients this year have asked for 4K files, another half dozen a Cinematic edit in addition to the full length. Times are changing.
Oddly enough I'm still seen as unobtrusive, and that is despite using a slider, jib, gimbal, multiple lenses and 3 unmanned cameras. I think this idea of Robocop is a conceit to justify a simpler approach, but bares no relation to reality. Aside from gear in a bag stashed in a corner, I work primarily with a GH4, monopod, and a couple of lenses in a bag, or a GH4 attached to a gimbal. I'd wager you've used larger setups in days gone by when cameras were built like bricks. In fact so have I, 15 years ago covering fashion shows when working for a University. I did my neck in supporting some of those cameras.
As for marketing, well being a Business less than 5 years old, it is part and parcel of establishing yourself.

I'm sure if I was approaching retirement, I'd be keeping things simple too, bidding my time to the moment I'd pack it all in. However with 30 years to go before that moment, my methods and goals are naturally more demanding.

[Arthur Gannis]

Many videographers here I know have far less number of contracts than I do and their prices are not that much more than what I charge, somewhat around 30% more but they all seem to constantly be busy with editing even though they do around half or LESS than what I I do. Like it seems they are eager to tire themselves out, carrying lots of gear, planning their shots and angles, retake after retake, no wonder the job takes forever to edit. I estimate that with all the hours of work put in a job and with the upgrade of gear cost and advertising, the bottom line profit is marginal at best. Sure the work looks fabulous and they all want to outdo each other like " if you book me, I will lower the price and include 5 extra copies" and another would say " I'll include a second shooter free" and another would throw in a kitchen sink as well. The clients are often overwhelmed with offers and eventually end up booking the one who they find has the best personality and can easily relate with, even though the price is higher. Selling oneself before the product is what works best among the myriad of competitors here. There are many that do a great business offering fabulous videos with highly talented "cinematographers" at prices to match the quality, but over recent years I saw the trend that more and more clients are downgrading their video expectations to affordable levels. If the pricing must be low to match their budget then the editing time must be less in order to handle the eventual extra jobs.
It's all about the bottom line profit.

[Roger Gunkel]

Originally Posted by Arthur Gannis

Selling oneself before the product is what works best among the myriad of competitors here.

Absolutely and it works the world over! Whether you do highly priced cinematic video or lower end quick shoots, if they don't like you they won't book you.

Roger

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Arthur Gannis

Many videographers here I know have far less number of contracts than I do and their prices are not that much more than what I charge, somewhat around 30% more but they all seem to constantly be busy with editing even though they do around half or LESS than what I I do. Like it seems they are eager to tire themselves out, carrying lots of gear, planning their shots and angles, retake after retake, no wonder the job takes forever to edit. I estimate that with all the hours of work put in a job and with the upgrade of gear cost and advertising, the bottom line profit is marginal at best. Sure the work looks fabulous and they all want to outdo each other like " if you book me, I will lower the price and include 5 extra copies" and another would say " I'll include a second shooter free" and another would throw in a kitchen sink as well.

That's a rather thorough analysis you have there; for one who does no marketing, you are more versed in your local competitors issues and general service than I am of my own competitors and their clients. But then there are fewer Wedding Videographers in the UK given the general populace.

Not that it matters. Discussing backlog; my time on an edit doesn't vary much from yours, at least for the longer edit. However I offer other videos which my clients do appreciate and which they come to me for. I'm sure a simpler life can be had not offering such videos, but I'm not yet old enough to demand or even expect a simpler life. Plus I enjoy my work or else I'd stayed at the University - better hours.
I've spoken to many of my clients who've scoffed at other videos they've seen, usually by those still offering single camera coverage, which I find almost too preposterous to believe, but some it seems do. I do quite nicely from such bookings.

When 80% of my years income is generated by Weddings filmed from May to beginning of September, it seems silly to rush through such work. Online material is now becoming more common and expected and several of my clients are now looking for cinematic edits too. Demands and expectations are changing; though for the retiring professional, not fast enough to warrant any action I'd wager, but for those with more years ahead in the profession, something to respond to.