Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?

[Darryn Carroll]

Just checking where others are posting sneak peeks and trailers.I had been posting on Vimeo for few years without issue but they now block any copyrighted songs from being used. If I understand correctly, I can now post on Youtube but may end up with an ad at the beginning?

I fully understand the debate and issue about using copyrighted music. Its just that most brides want their song and find it hard to accept when they see thousands of others.

[Steve Burkett]

I use YouTube mainly. Most couples are aware of the ads and there's more options for playback resolution. Vimeo is lagging behind. For some videos where quality needs to shine, I'll use them, but for a paid service, they need to up their game.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Darryn

I have been using You Tube for years now and if they detect you are using a commercial song they will flag it. If they have an "agreement" with the publisher they will place a revenue producing ad at the bottom of the video but occasionally I have had a few where the video is not visible in some countries ? So far it has only been Germany!!

There is one hitch with YouTube videos with commercial music and that is even if they place the ad on your clip (doesn't seem to phase my brides) the clip is unavailable on mobile devices like phones and tablets .. I have no idea why but they are blocked .. I changed the music in one clip (sheesh it was only the bridal march but supposedly it violated copyright) and the clip after that was available on mobile devices. I guess they are doing that as people viewing on computers are more likely to click on an ad than people using phones.

Other than that they work fine as long as you tell the bride not to try and watch on her phone!!

There was talk that Vimeo was considering banning accounts that had more than 3 violations (3 strikes and your account is deleted) but I'm unsure if they went thru with that or not?

Vimeo does look a little better but seriously I don't think brides look at resolution ..just the content !! You Tube where my brides are also seems to load a lot better as long as you don't try to upload your video in UHD at 100mbps !!!

Chris

[Noa Put]

If you want to get noticed then youtube is an alternative you can't ignore, that Vimeo blocks your videos for using copyrighted content I"d say that's normal, you should pay for the music you use in your trailers you are using online to showcase your work, not sure if you would find it ok if someone would use images from your video without your approval and without paying for it?

[Steve Burkett]

Kind of makes doing Marryokes difficult Noa. I'm hardly alone in that either. For my Trailers I tend to use copyright free music.

[Noa Put]

If you use it online to promote your business with it you have to pay for the music you use, if you don't then you probably won't mind if I rip your videos and put my name under it without paying you for it, if your work would be better then mine that is :)

[Steve Burkett]

Sanctimonious issues aside Noa; I'm not claiming to have written or performed the song, passing their work off as my own, so your analogy is off the mark. A better example would be if a venue used my video to promote their business, which as it happens they have done so, both with and without my consent. Did I object when I found such a case without my consent; nope. I've also had a video I shot ripped from Youtube, segments cut from it and then re-uploaded under another account. They did at least link to the original; again, no permission asked. Did I mind, nope.

Marryokes don't exists in the dark corners of the Internet; I'm currently working on one to P Williams Happy song. To think he or someone close to him isn't aware of how this song has been used sooooo many times for Marryokes is unlikely. So why isn't it stopped. Money drives these issues Noa. I have no issue with anyone using my video unless I saw them making more money from it than me; same goes for most artists I think. There's nothing worse than obscurity in creative work and anyone feeling my video is worthwhile to use feels a little flattering to my ego.

I appreciate copyright issues is a thorny one, but those songs most likely used for Marryokes have already made the singer more money than I ever will. Vimeo enforces copyright more strictly than Youtube only because Youtube being a free to use service can get away with putting adverts and therefore make money from it, whilst Vimeo, being for the most who use it a paid service, can not. These games are played at higher levels than me. If Youtube is making money from my videos, done to popular songs, why not me.

[Matthias Claflin]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

If you use it online to promote your business with it you have to pay for the music you use, if you don't then you probably won't mind if I rip your videos and put my name under it without paying you for it, if your work would be better then mine that is :)

Agree with this 100%

I pay for licenses for all the music I use and I post to both youtube and vimeo. In my experience, if you don't search "vimeo" then my youtube videos will show up in a google search over my vimeo videos, which is one of the only reasons I use youtube. The more people I get my videos in front of the better and vimeo and youtube have vastly different audiences.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

Sanctimonious issues aside Noa; I'm not claiming to have written or performed the song, passing their work off as my own, so your analogy is off the mark.

You are not passing it of as your work, that's right, you are just using it for your own financial gain without having to pay the author of the music for his work. So me using your work to promote mine is the same and I don't need to ask you or pay you anything for it.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

You are not passing it of as your work, that's right, you are just using it for your own financial gain without having to pay the author of the music for his work. So me using your work to promote mine is the same and I don't need to ask you or pay you anything for it.

Well since my Marryoke's credit and even link to the song I use, details of who made it, sung it etc, then should you use my video to promote yours, by the same token you need to link to my website or at least my youtube site. So urgo you're promoting my work as well as your own. In that case, feel free. I like my videos to be seen and if you help me reach more people, I'd even thank you for it. And don't bother me with pesky requests to use my videos, I get enough emails as it is. :)

[Robert Benda]

Both Vimeo and YouTube scan for copyright violations now. Both will ban you if they have to, though I've only heard of a few cases. A bigger issue for us with violation is that, if your video gets noticed, you'll get a six figure bill from the record company (just Google Joe Simon's article on copyright chickens have come home to roost).

In more practical issues, using pop songs means ads at the least. Or that at any time, the company can pull permission and suddenly your client's video won't have audio.

On the ethical side, yes, its using someone else's work for your own benefit, without their permission, and without compensation. If you wouldn't think that's OK for someone to do with your work, then don't do it to someone else.

----

To answer the OP's question, YouTube does better in search engines. Vimeo is ad free and tends to be prettier.

[Leon Bailey]

Use both and pay for your music. Simple! :)

[Mark Williams]

Providing a "credit and even link to the song I use" means nothing if you don't have the rights to use it. It may be justification in your mind but it is not in any way in compliance with the law. Although I am not a wedding videographer and don't use main stream music I do either pay for a license, get written permission or use a creative commons license if allowed by the composer/performer. I document the license in the video description.

Here is a personal example of how Youtube and Vimeo deal with copyright violations. A while back a fellow used some of my footage without permission. My footage was in about 20 videos of his 400+ video library on Youtube and Vimeo. They were popular and monetized. I went thru the notification of copyright infringement process on both sites and provided proof of ownership. Although it took a week or so he had enough copyright complaints (it only takes three) that they deleted all his videos and closed his account. He eventually contacted me via email and asked to rescind my complaints and he would pay me for a license to use my video. His offer was peanuts so I refused. Also, I did not want to do business with a person of dubious character. His bad choices caused him to loose 100's of hours editing and uploading as well as all his self-promotion. I believed he learned a valuable and costly lesson on the consequences of stealing someone's work.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

So urgo you're promoting my work as well as your own. In that case, feel free.

That's the point, you are ok with that but the people you are stealing from not, you have build a business on using music without permission, I wonder why you even bother buying a license for your weddingtrailers.

Personally I do blame the music industry for making it so difficult for people to use music, if I would add a Marryoke to my business, I would gladly want to pay a license for the songs I use but it has to be within reasonable limits, there is no use in charging 10K+ for a used song when your target audience pays less the 1K for a video. There are millions to be made by charging an appropriate amount depending on the kind of business that wants to use it and what way they want to share it but because the fees are ridiculously high people will just start to use it for free and take their chances, I have heard about musicians don't want to be associated with certain types of production but as long as it doesn't concern videos that are not offensive to the general public they are missing out on millions by not charging an amount every business can pay.

I mean even my daughter's rabbit video with a popular song on youtube got the song take out because of a copyright violation, she was not monetizing her videos and youtube could easily check that so she wasn't making any money from it so what was the big deal here, that the author of the song doesn't want to be associated with rabbits? If they would be smart they would ask 1 dollar for the use of their song in such a case and make a lot of extra money but since they are not ok with they don't make anything and still thousands of people are placing their song under a rabbit video and slip under the radar of whatever robot is checking for violations.

Sabam, our Belgian Society of Authors, Composers and Publishers who collect, distribute and manage (in the broadest sense of the word) all copyrights in Belgium and all other countries is very clear about using commercial songs publicly online with the intent of promoting your business to a wide audience will send you a appropriate invoice when they are notified about you using a song without permission. Where I live several videographers take the risk and just use it like Steve does but they are not aware about the fact that a simple email to Sabam from a jealous competitor can cause their business to shut down because they can't pay the price for the licenses. That would be a risk I never want to take.

[Steve Burkett]

Noa I'm not disagreeing with any of your points here. I'm curious how a company like Marryoke.com survives. They charge way way more, have views in the 10,000's compared to my 300-600 views per video. Are they asking permission, paying a fee. Their website says they've been featured in the Daily Mail, Channel 4 amongst others. Hardly low profile. Youtube's policy seems to be, either the artist can block the video, mute the audio or allow an advert with revenue going to them. How true is this, I do not know. However it seems to be a solution that Youtube is happy with, the Businesses that pay for the adverts and even the artist to some degree or else they'd block it or insist audio be removed. By running adverts against my video, the businesses they refer to are also in a roundabout way using my video with copyright music to promote their business. It's a real grey area and arguably if illegal then Youtube is hardly an innocent bystander.

At the end of the day it is up to artists to fight their battles and I dare say if any objected strongly I would soon hear about it. If any would be competitor did squeal, would there be any comeback. I could label quite a few other higher profile Marryoke companies, but don't. At the end of the day, people want Marryokes and there will always be those like me available to supply them. It's not a perfect scenario, but then what is.

I'm sure there'll be those taking the high ground and condemn me to ever lasting hell. I use copyright free music for my trailers for good reason. With Marryoke's alas it's unavoidable. Unless any here can advise on how this is achievable short of withdrawing the service.