Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? at DVinfo.net

Chris Harding · July 19th, 2015, 08:42 AM

Hi Guys

I know there is the obvious advantage of being able to shoot in UHD so you can also crop if need be when rendering down to 1080.

Is there an IQ advantage if you shoot in 3840x2160 and then render back to 1080 ... It's a bit new to me at the moment but I usually try and always use the best quality source footage even if the end result is a lower resolution! Can you see any visible difference from UHD down to HD compared with HD to HD? and what about making a DVD copy so rendering UHD right down to SD (in my case 720x576) compared to HD to SD

Thanks for any comments

Chris

Noa Put · July 19th, 2015, 08:57 AM

I always edit a 4K file in a 1080p project and render out a 1080p file, files from my 4K camera's are visually more detailed while edited and exported, if I shoot in 1080p on my gh4 and put that image next to my gh3 it looks the same, if I shoot in 4K on the gh4 and place it on the same timeline next to the gh4 1080p file there is also a detail advantage in favor of the 4K version.

If you plan on matching 4K with 1080p camera's you need to take care which format you shoot in because if you start mixing these files up the difference is noticeable, especially on wide angle shots. That's why I only shoot 4K if I need the cropping advantage.

Chris Harding · July 19th, 2015, 09:08 AM

Thanks Noa

So either both cameras in UHD or both in 1080.. great ... My first wedding of the season is the first week of August and we have a rehearsal at the Church so I'll take advantage and shoot one card with some 4K inside and outside and then shoot some 1080 on a second card of much the same stuff and I'll have something to play with and make up my mind which format to use !

Chris

Noa Put · July 19th, 2015, 09:36 AM

In regard to your workflow, wether you go to HD or DVD, I wouldn't change anything really, unless you plan to export as 4K you need to edit in a 4K project but otherwise just treat a 4K file like you would a 1080p file and drop it together with your other 1080P files in a 1080p project, the 2 major differences with your 4K files are that they are more detailed then your 1080p camera's and you have the cropping ability.

Craig McKenna · July 19th, 2015, 12:24 PM

I follow Noa's advice with regards to UHD, though importing a 4K file into ProRes can seriously render your system to a halt.

Currently, I am considering upgrading my MacBook Pro 17" from 2011 with 16GB RAM and 512 VRAM to a Mac Pro next year, once Intel releases its next gen chips.

Ultimately, we're going to need to invest quite heavily to run 3 or 4 cam editing with 4K files... at least for those of us using FCPX. Not to mention storage...

From Noa's experiences, it seems like Edius can handle whatever you throw at it! :)

Steve Burkett · July 19th, 2015, 12:32 PM

I shoot all my GH4 Wedding footage in 4K. Just love the look too much. I then produce all Trailers in 4K, but the edit of the full length video is in an HD timeline. My PC handles 5 cameras, with 2 4K's amongst them, for the most part. Can have its funny moments. It would from testing struggle with more than 2 4K cameras on the timeline.

Yesterday I did a same day edit - very very basic same day edit, in 4K to output on my 4K TV I set up in the corner of the marquee. Nice comments about the quality of the image. Took people by surprise a little. Included plenty of wide shots with lots of detail.

Craig McKenna · July 19th, 2015, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

I shoot all my GH4 Wedding footage in 4K. Just love the look too much. I then produce all Trailers in 4K, but the edit of the full length video is in an HD timeline. My PC handles 5 cameras, with 2 4K's amongst them, for the most part. Can have its funny moments. It would from testing struggle with more than 2 4K cameras on the timeline.

Yesterday I did a same day edit - very very basic same day edit, in 4K to output on my 4K TV I set up in the corner of the marquee. Nice comments about the quality of the image. Took people by surprise a little. Included plenty of wide shots with lots of detail.

What's your NLE and computer system?

Thanks Steve!

Steve Burkett · July 19th, 2015, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

What's your NLE and computer system?

Thanks Steve!

I use Premiere Pro. You can adjust quality setting for playback, which I frequently set to 1/2. I edit on an i7 2600k cpu 3.4GHz PC. Custom built with editing in mind. I want to update my Graphics Card and add some more RAM, which I hope will help with a better 4K workflow. Currently use an NVidia GeForce 4GB card.

Chris Harding · July 20th, 2015, 12:35 AM

Mine is much the same Craig ... i7 2600 as well but I run Sony Vegas 13 for 4K and it seems to be workable so far

You have to be careful if you are running "full" 4K and rendering to 1080 as it has a different aspect ratio ..17:9 and not 16:9 !! My cams only shoot UHD which is 3840 x 2160 which still has the 16:9 aspect .. the full 4K has a wider image (over 4000 pixels) which changes the aspect ..that might be an issue for normal screens/TV's ...I'm not sure but Steve will give you the specs on that! Not sure what format the GH4 shoots in???

Steve Burkett · July 20th, 2015, 01:07 AM

To be honest I'm really shooting UHD, I call it 4K because its easier to say and sounds better. :). Besides we are not talking much difference in resolution - hardly on the scale of 720p vs 1080p. The GH4 has a 4K photo mode with options for different ratios. Used for anamorphic but recently by me for a Wedding where video stills had been requested, its 4K but not 4K. The Gh4 has full 4K but only for 24p. I tend to shoot 25p, so UHD is the only option. I suppose the argument is that you shoot 24p for cinema hence the wider ratio????? I might give it a try and see how it looks. However as my other cameras are 16:9, it would mean either cropping the left and right of the GH4 footage or cropping top and bottom of my other cameras.

SD rendered onto DVDs have black bars left and right, a heyday when TV's use to crop the image more, so I don't think the 17:9 image on a 16:9 TV would be all that noticeable.

Chris Harding · July 20th, 2015, 02:32 AM

Hi Steve

My cameras are the baby sisters of the GH4 so I only have UHD so I cannot choose ..however it still looks awesome so I'm happy ... My foolish inner self decided to upload a one minute UHD clip onto You Tube and you only realise how big the format is when your 60 second clip comes out at 750mb!! Vegas decided that the "proper" MP4 format was XAVC S and it doesn't allow be to change the bitrate so it's a huge file ..more fun than anything else ..brides will still get their USB done at 1080!

While I have your attention ..is there any way you can get Windows 7 to recognise the 3840x 2160 MP4 source file so it has a thumbnail??? My NLE has no issue creating a thumbnail but Win 7 doesn't know what it is!!!!

Chris

Steve Burkett · July 20th, 2015, 03:18 AM

Hi Chris,

Nope that one has me stumped. My Windows 8 PC is fine and I can see a thumbnail, but my editing machine is Windows 7. I use Adobe Bridge, but basically I just upload to Premiere and view thumbnails that way. A more permanent solution will have to be found at some point. Probably when the season is over and I have the time to explore this further. I plan to upgrade Premiere, my Graphics card, RAM and some other software come winter also. Just to correct running issues I've had this summer.

July 19th, 2015, 08:42 AM	#1
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? Hi Guys I know there is the obvious advantage of being able to shoot in UHD so you can also crop if need be when rendering down to 1080. Is there an IQ advantage if you shoot in 3840x2160 and then render back to 1080 ... It's a bit new to me at the moment but I usually try and always use the best quality source footage even if the end result is a lower resolution! Can you see any visible difference from UHD down to HD compared with HD to HD? and what about making a DVD copy so rendering UHD right down to SD (in my case 720x576) compared to HD to SD Thanks for any comments Chris

July 19th, 2015, 08:57 AM	#2
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? I always edit a 4K file in a 1080p project and render out a 1080p file, files from my 4K camera's are visually more detailed while edited and exported, if I shoot in 1080p on my gh4 and put that image next to my gh3 it looks the same, if I shoot in 4K on the gh4 and place it on the same timeline next to the gh4 1080p file there is also a detail advantage in favor of the 4K version. If you plan on matching 4K with 1080p camera's you need to take care which format you shoot in because if you start mixing these files up the difference is noticeable, especially on wide angle shots. That's why I only shoot 4K if I need the cropping advantage.

July 19th, 2015, 09:08 AM	#3
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? Thanks Noa So either both cameras in UHD or both in 1080.. great ... My first wedding of the season is the first week of August and we have a rehearsal at the Church so I'll take advantage and shoot one card with some 4K inside and outside and then shoot some 1080 on a second card of much the same stuff and I'll have something to play with and make up my mind which format to use ! Chris

July 19th, 2015, 09:36 AM	#4
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? In regard to your workflow, wether you go to HD or DVD, I wouldn't change anything really, unless you plan to export as 4K you need to edit in a 4K project but otherwise just treat a 4K file like you would a 1080p file and drop it together with your other 1080P files in a 1080p project, the 2 major differences with your 4K files are that they are more detailed then your 1080p camera's and you have the cropping ability.

July 19th, 2015, 12:24 PM	#5
Craig McKenna Major Player Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 495	Re: Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? I follow Noa's advice with regards to UHD, though importing a 4K file into ProRes can seriously render your system to a halt. Currently, I am considering upgrading my MacBook Pro 17" from 2011 with 16GB RAM and 512 VRAM to a Mac Pro next year, once Intel releases its next gen chips. Ultimately, we're going to need to invest quite heavily to run 3 or 4 cam editing with 4K files... at least for those of us using FCPX. Not to mention storage... From Noa's experiences, it seems like Edius can handle whatever you throw at it! :)

July 19th, 2015, 12:32 PM	#6
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? I shoot all my GH4 Wedding footage in 4K. Just love the look too much. I then produce all Trailers in 4K, but the edit of the full length video is in an HD timeline. My PC handles 5 cameras, with 2 4K's amongst them, for the most part. Can have its funny moments. It would from testing struggle with more than 2 4K cameras on the timeline. Yesterday I did a same day edit - very very basic same day edit, in 4K to output on my 4K TV I set up in the corner of the marquee. Nice comments about the quality of the image. Took people by surprise a little. Included plenty of wide shots with lots of detail.

July 20th, 2015, 12:35 AM	#9
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? Mine is much the same Craig ... i7 2600 as well but I run Sony Vegas 13 for 4K and it seems to be workable so far You have to be careful if you are running "full" 4K and rendering to 1080 as it has a different aspect ratio ..17:9 and not 16:9 !! My cams only shoot UHD which is 3840 x 2160 which still has the 16:9 aspect .. the full 4K has a wider image (over 4000 pixels) which changes the aspect ..that might be an issue for normal screens/TV's ...I'm not sure but Steve will give you the specs on that! Not sure what format the GH4 shoots in???

July 20th, 2015, 01:07 AM	#10
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? To be honest I'm really shooting UHD, I call it 4K because its easier to say and sounds better. :). Besides we are not talking much difference in resolution - hardly on the scale of 720p vs 1080p. The GH4 has a 4K photo mode with options for different ratios. Used for anamorphic but recently by me for a Wedding where video stills had been requested, its 4K but not 4K. The Gh4 has full 4K but only for 24p. I tend to shoot 25p, so UHD is the only option. I suppose the argument is that you shoot 24p for cinema hence the wider ratio????? I might give it a try and see how it looks. However as my other cameras are 16:9, it would mean either cropping the left and right of the GH4 footage or cropping top and bottom of my other cameras. SD rendered onto DVDs have black bars left and right, a heyday when TV's use to crop the image more, so I don't think the 17:9 image on a 16:9 TV would be all that noticeable.

July 20th, 2015, 02:32 AM	#11
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? Hi Steve My cameras are the baby sisters of the GH4 so I only have UHD so I cannot choose ..however it still looks awesome so I'm happy ... My foolish inner self decided to upload a one minute UHD clip onto You Tube and you only realise how big the format is when your 60 second clip comes out at 750mb!! Vegas decided that the "proper" MP4 format was XAVC S and it doesn't allow be to change the bitrate so it's a huge file ..more fun than anything else ..brides will still get their USB done at 1080! While I have your attention ..is there any way you can get Windows 7 to recognise the 3840x 2160 MP4 source file so it has a thumbnail??? My NLE has no issue creating a thumbnail but Win 7 doesn't know what it is!!!! Chris

July 20th, 2015, 03:18 AM	#12
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: Shoot weddings at UHD or 1080?? Hi Chris, Nope that one has me stumped. My Windows 8 PC is fine and I can see a thumbnail, but my editing machine is Windows 7. I use Adobe Bridge, but basically I just upload to Premiere and view thumbnails that way. A more permanent solution will have to be found at some point. Probably when the season is over and I have the time to explore this further. I plan to upgrade Premiere, my Graphics card, RAM and some other software come winter also. Just to correct running issues I've had this summer.