Business Advice

Robert Benda · May 25th, 2015, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthias Claflin

"Basically I want to set up a situation where I retain all the rights to all the moving images created at all the events that I am hired to be at. My clients hired me and they would be compromised if someone else ever used anything with them in it to promote themselves."

To me, this is odd. Is this normal in this business?

Not too unusual, though it can go either way. I've seen photogs not have their 2nd shooters post their photos on their own. Their benefit is the learning and the experience, not the portfolio.

I would agree to that IF he is actually teaching (or paying) well. At least for a little while. I'd still get a business name, website, et al, and launch as soon as possible, with a goal to booking next season. That means getting 2 or 3 weddings on your own for your reel.

Matthias Claflin · May 25th, 2015, 04:22 PM

Hey everyone! Thanks for all the help. I spent a lot of time before I met this photographer working out a business plan and a financial breakdown on what I needed to do, to make the money I want to make. I recently went over that again, my goals, personal, professional, financial, etc, to decide what I need to see from him in order to sign anything.

My 10 year goal is to take my business with me, and move to a different state. I don't hate where I live, but I don't want to live here forever. That being said, I think I'll sign his "agreement" if he will allow me to use the footage to promote myself in a different state, out of his reasonable "market". Which I think is more than fair to both of us.

That being said, we have already started some negotiating/brainstorming on things we want/need in the agreement to make it worth it to us. If I don't get what I am looking for, I will go out on my own, as seemingly everyone suggests. I believe he can help me make money from this significantly faster, and get me into the wedding scene much more quickly than if I went out on my own. At the same time, I'll continue building my brand and trying to do a handful of weddings on my own every year to continue building my own brand and hopefully make it mobile in the next 10 years to take it somewhere else entirely.

EDIT: I currently own a Canon T3i (with magic lantern), Canon HF G10, Zoom H1 recorder, AT3350 lavalier mic, Davis and Sanford tripod, Oben Monopod, etc. I rent everything I want and don't currently have, that being L glass lenses for the T3i, shotgun microphones for back up audio, and any other "necessary" gear. If I do go out on my own, will this be enough to do a decent job? I don't want to put myself out there with a sub par product because I can't afford better gear. What's your thoughts?

Robert Benda · May 26th, 2015, 01:51 PM

I'm curious where you are and where you'd go when you did move. I'm in north west Minnesota and my wife, from Phoenix, AZ, REALLY wants to move in a couple (few) years.

For gear, I'd say a pocket recorder for the groom, and maybe a 3rd device (lav or recorder) as backup, or for the lectern.

I do a 3 camera shoot for ceremonies, and have 3 tripods and one monopod. One camera switches off the mono once the processional is done, for instance, and goes back onto the monopod for the recessional. The rest of the time I want it as stable as possible. I move from camera to camera to make changes.

I don't know the HF G10, but I started on the T3i myself and know how that does in the low light. If the G10 is similar, you'll want to pick a camera that does better in the dark. We got ourselves a used 5d Mark ii for that reason (and now replaced the T3is with 70D for the focusing and marginally better iso performance).

In the beginning, don't worry about L glass, or much beyond good tripods, fast lenses, and clean audio. Take it slow on gear buying so you have time to figure out what is genuinely useful for YOU and your style.

Ryan Graves · May 26th, 2015, 03:49 PM

The worker is worthy of his wages! Be firm and stand up for yourself and state that you've logged enough "shadowing" hours by now; like anyone else, you have to put bread on your table and would really like to be paid. You may be being abused by this person if he continues to assume that you're "free." So know that we're with you in your stand!

I shoot weddings for a living and love doing them. Check out my website at www.seattleweddingvideography.com and tell me what you think of my stuff. Do you shoot similarly and with similar equipment or do you just only use DSLR stuff? I've never used it but I know that it's beautiful. I shoot with Panasonic HMC-150's and Manfrotto gear.

Take care and good luck!

Sincerely,
Ryan Graves
Seattle Wedding Videography

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthias Claflin

Hey everyone, I have been following many of the threads on this site for a while now, just trying to soak up as much information as I can. However, I've come to an interesting place in the beginning of my video carrier and need some help. Here's the situation....

So, I began pushing my way into the wedding video business this summer when I left my job as an assistant manager of a fast food restaurant. I've always wanted to get into wedding videography and have done some concert videography in the past.. I sent out some e-mails to photographers in my area to see if they could be of any help. The first one came back with a very interesting opportunity. I would shoot a wedding for free, while working "alongside" this photographer. They would show me the ropes and give me an idea of what to expect. I took the opportunity but didn't stop looking for allies in the photo field. A more experienced photographer got back to me before I shot my first wedding and let me shadow them on a wedding shoot a week before my first official shoot was to take place.

Long story short the more experienced photographer has been "mentoring" me ever since (a little over a month). They have expressed an interest in letting me start a video department for their brand. In return I am able to use their equipment consisting of a 5D mkIII, numerous L glass lenses, batteries, monopods, etc. I was thrilled to be given this opportunity with little to no experience in the wedding industry and as invaluable as this experience is, I'm not making any money from it. The photographer I'm working with at the moment asked me to shoot another wedding with them. When asked about some kind of monetary compensation they told me that they wanted to shoot it without informing the bride, for free, and try to sell the highlight video to the bride after the wedding. The intention being that we keep the video aspect under wraps until we can launch an official video service next year.. What do you guys think? Will the Bride buy the highlight video? Or will "breaking even" cost too much for a Bride to spend after the wedding? Should I get something in writing before I continue to work with this photographer?

Edward Calabig · June 3rd, 2015, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthias Claflin

Hey everyone! Thanks for all the help. I spent a lot of time before I met this photographer working out a business plan and a financial breakdown on what I needed to do, to make the money I want to make. I recently went over that again, my goals, personal, professional, financial, etc, to decide what I need to see from him in order to sign anything.

My 10 year goal is to take my business with me, and move to a different state. I don't hate where I live, but I don't want to live here forever. That being said, I think I'll sign his "agreement" if he will allow me to use the footage to promote myself in a different state, out of his reasonable "market". Which I think is more than fair to both of us.

That being said, we have already started some negotiating/brainstorming on things we want/need in the agreement to make it worth it to us. If I don't get what I am looking for, I will go out on my own, as seemingly everyone suggests. I believe he can help me make money from this significantly faster, and get me into the wedding scene much more quickly than if I went out on my own. At the same time, I'll continue building my brand and trying to do a handful of weddings on my own every year to continue building my own brand and hopefully make it mobile in the next 10 years to take it somewhere else entirely.

EDIT: I currently own a Canon T3i (with magic lantern), Canon HF G10, Zoom H1 recorder, AT3350 lavalier mic, Davis and Sanford tripod, Oben Monopod, etc. I rent everything I want and don't currently have, that being L glass lenses for the T3i, shotgun microphones for back up audio, and any other "necessary" gear. If I do go out on my own, will this be enough to do a decent job? I don't want to put myself out there with a sub par product because I can't afford better gear. What's your thoughts?

I hope you're not signing a contract for a length of time. Anything can happen in this business and if your business booms in the next few months, you don't want to be binded to this guy in anyway. If anything, it would be better to join a different photographer as a freelancer that does not make you sign an "agreement." Your footage is your footage and if you shoot something amazing, you don't want to have any rights limitations to it when it comes to promoting yourself, regardless of the geography.

Matthias Claflin · June 4th, 2015, 01:53 AM

Well I've had some time to think about it and to talk to the photographer more. Essentially what he wants to do is start offering a video service under his name. He will buy all the gear, from cameras/lenses to computer equipment to edit on, and I'll do the work at his office, essentially. As far as the agreement goes, nothing is official and I'm still debating the offer. Not sure if this is what I want, but it would be much easier than running my own business.

I'm not at liberty to give more details about the photographer or where I am located. No offense to anyone here. I'm want to move to New England, where I grew up eventually. I grew up in Old Saybrook, CT, and currently live a considerable distance from there, so if I were to relocate in 10 or so years it wouldn't effect the photographer's business at all.

I have another meeting with him on Friday to discuss exactly what he would expect from me, as an employee, and what compensation I will receive. He definitely has a vision for his brand and wants to expand, and I'm not set on doing my own thing. If he makes me a good enough offer, I'll likely take it. When I do move on, nothing is stopping me from directing prospective clients to his vimeo after explaining that I was the one who shot the videos. Just because I can't pass it off as my own independent work, doesn't mean I can't tell a client where to find my work, on someone else's website. That's just my opinion.

Robert Benda · June 4th, 2015, 07:29 AM

If you're planning on moving out of the area (and therefore have no reputation to build), then maybe that's not a bad deal. He takes all the risk, you get to learn.

As long as he is willing to pay a decent wage, I'd seriously consider it. Few things are better than making your learning mistakes on someone else's dime.

May 25th, 2015, 04:22 PM	#17
Matthias Claflin Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: PA, USA Posts: 87	Re: Business Advice Hey everyone! Thanks for all the help. I spent a lot of time before I met this photographer working out a business plan and a financial breakdown on what I needed to do, to make the money I want to make. I recently went over that again, my goals, personal, professional, financial, etc, to decide what I need to see from him in order to sign anything. My 10 year goal is to take my business with me, and move to a different state. I don't hate where I live, but I don't want to live here forever. That being said, I think I'll sign his "agreement" if he will allow me to use the footage to promote myself in a different state, out of his reasonable "market". Which I think is more than fair to both of us. That being said, we have already started some negotiating/brainstorming on things we want/need in the agreement to make it worth it to us. If I don't get what I am looking for, I will go out on my own, as seemingly everyone suggests. I believe he can help me make money from this significantly faster, and get me into the wedding scene much more quickly than if I went out on my own. At the same time, I'll continue building my brand and trying to do a handful of weddings on my own every year to continue building my own brand and hopefully make it mobile in the next 10 years to take it somewhere else entirely. EDIT: I currently own a Canon T3i (with magic lantern), Canon HF G10, Zoom H1 recorder, AT3350 lavalier mic, Davis and Sanford tripod, Oben Monopod, etc. I rent everything I want and don't currently have, that being L glass lenses for the T3i, shotgun microphones for back up audio, and any other "necessary" gear. If I do go out on my own, will this be enough to do a decent job? I don't want to put myself out there with a sub par product because I can't afford better gear. What's your thoughts? Last edited by Matthias Claflin; May 25th, 2015 at 04:43 PM. Reason: More information

May 26th, 2015, 01:51 PM	#18
Robert Benda Trustee Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Crookston, MN Posts: 1,353	Re: Business Advice I'm curious where you are and where you'd go when you did move. I'm in north west Minnesota and my wife, from Phoenix, AZ, REALLY wants to move in a couple (few) years. For gear, I'd say a pocket recorder for the groom, and maybe a 3rd device (lav or recorder) as backup, or for the lectern. I do a 3 camera shoot for ceremonies, and have 3 tripods and one monopod. One camera switches off the mono once the processional is done, for instance, and goes back onto the monopod for the recessional. The rest of the time I want it as stable as possible. I move from camera to camera to make changes. I don't know the HF G10, but I started on the T3i myself and know how that does in the low light. If the G10 is similar, you'll want to pick a camera that does better in the dark. We got ourselves a used 5d Mark ii for that reason (and now replaced the T3is with 70D for the focusing and marginally better iso performance). In the beginning, don't worry about L glass, or much beyond good tripods, fast lenses, and clean audio. Take it slow on gear buying so you have time to figure out what is genuinely useful for YOU and your style.

June 4th, 2015, 01:53 AM	#21
Matthias Claflin Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: PA, USA Posts: 87	Re: Business Advice Well I've had some time to think about it and to talk to the photographer more. Essentially what he wants to do is start offering a video service under his name. He will buy all the gear, from cameras/lenses to computer equipment to edit on, and I'll do the work at his office, essentially. As far as the agreement goes, nothing is official and I'm still debating the offer. Not sure if this is what I want, but it would be much easier than running my own business. I'm not at liberty to give more details about the photographer or where I am located. No offense to anyone here. I'm want to move to New England, where I grew up eventually. I grew up in Old Saybrook, CT, and currently live a considerable distance from there, so if I were to relocate in 10 or so years it wouldn't effect the photographer's business at all. I have another meeting with him on Friday to discuss exactly what he would expect from me, as an employee, and what compensation I will receive. He definitely has a vision for his brand and wants to expand, and I'm not set on doing my own thing. If he makes me a good enough offer, I'll likely take it. When I do move on, nothing is stopping me from directing prospective clients to his vimeo after explaining that I was the one who shot the videos. Just because I can't pass it off as my own independent work, doesn't mean I can't tell a client where to find my work, on someone else's website. That's just my opinion.

June 4th, 2015, 07:29 AM	#22
Robert Benda Trustee Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Crookston, MN Posts: 1,353	Re: Business Advice If you're planning on moving out of the area (and therefore have no reputation to build), then maybe that's not a bad deal. He takes all the risk, you get to learn. As long as he is willing to pay a decent wage, I'd seriously consider it. Few things are better than making your learning mistakes on someone else's dime.