Second Camera to AX100 at DVinfo.net

Phil Stanley · March 23rd, 2015, 05:17 AM

Having purchased the AX100 a few weeks ago and now pretty familiar and pleased with the purchase, I am looking to add a second Camera possibly a third. Our initial aim is to build a competent Wedding kit and we would appreciate any advice on this.

My considerations have been an AX33, however before purchasing I would like to be sure as at £1000 it not a cheap second Camera and I guess being new fairly untested to some degree. I did fancy having one camera with the BOSS on for some movement shots.

Other options staying with Sony are the CX900 and an RX10, both as I understand have 1" sensors, the CX900 is £1000 and the RX10 approx £650

So am I on the right thought process here or are there better options?

Noa Put · March 23rd, 2015, 05:28 AM

One thing to consider is how these camera's will match, I have the ax100 and a cx730, in terms of color they match perfectly, only in terms of detail you see the difference. With the rx10 however I have had more issues getting it color matched, specifically on skintones. I have no idea how the AX33 looks like imagewise but if Sony dialled in the same look as on the ax100 you would be better of getting that one. The rx10 has nice image detail but side to side with the ax100, and especially on wide shots with fine detail the difference is obvious. My cx730's will probably next year be replaced with the ax33, after I have seen more how it performs.

Phil Stanley · March 23rd, 2015, 05:41 AM

Thank you Noa

The CX730 does not seem to be a current model at present, was it replaced with the CX900 or there seems to be a PJ810 model which I am not familiar with.

Do you notice much difference in low light image quality between the AX100 and CX730?

Kyle Root · March 23rd, 2015, 07:05 AM

Why not just pick up another ax100?

I found a used one in brand new condition for $1,019 at a local shop. Excellent deal. B&H has them going for $1,400 used which is also a good price.

I'd like to get one, but the x70 focus issues being reported kind of scare me just a bit. But, I'll probably take the plunge. I shot my first wedding with my d750 and 70-200 Saturday and the focus issues on the ax/pw can't be worse than my focusing on that wedding. Lol I don't see how you guys do this with DSLRs at the ceremony.

Personally, I'm trying to consolidate all my cameras into ones that match so I have an easier time getting consistent looks between shots. Even when I custom white balance the color matrix of the cameras are all different, so there is still a lot of shot matching to do in post. Trying to eliminate that bottleneck...

Noa Put · March 23rd, 2015, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Stanley

Thank you Noa

The CX730 does not seem to be a current model at present, was it replaced with the CX900 or there seems to be a PJ810 model which I am not familiar with.

Do you notice much difference in low light image quality between the AX100 and CX730?

They don't make the cx730 anymore, the 810 is not the replacement model though as it has a smaller sensor (1/3.95 for the 810 vs 1/2.88 for the cx730), not sure which type exactly came after the 730.

Low light performance between the ax100 and cx730 is the same, only the cx730 is less noisy at high iso's but the ax100 retains much more detail. At max iso the cx730 image gets softer.

Bruce Dempsey · March 23rd, 2015, 09:22 AM

I have an a5100 on order (should have been here today :( to use with my ax100 which I will either employ for close-ups or static wide shot. It also shoots xavc-s although max 1080 60p and it has a very good autofocus and should be even better than the ax100 in diminished light as it uses the same bionx as the a7s and has a much bigger sensor than the ax100
Does not have mic in or headphone jack
Sorry I'm not a weddyviddy so can't say really if it will be good in such circumstances
PPS it arrived an hour after this post haraay

Phil Stanley · March 24th, 2015, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Root

Why not just pick up another ax100?

I found a used one in brand new condition for $1,019 at a local shop. Excellent deal. B&H has them going for $1,400 used which is also a good price.

I'd like to get one, but the x70 focus issues being reported kind of scare me just a bit. But, I'll probably take the plunge. I shot my first wedding with my d750 and 70-200 Saturday and the focus issues on the ax/pw can't be worse than my focusing on that wedding. Lol I don't see how you guys do this with DSLRs at the ceremony.

Personally, I'm trying to consolidate all my cameras into ones that match so I have an easier time getting consistent looks between shots. Even when I custom white balance the color matrix of the cameras are all different, so there is still a lot of shot matching to do in post. Trying to eliminate that bottleneck...

Hi Kyle
A second AX100 is an option but they are close to £1500 here an RX10 is about £600 so I was considering cost.

James Manford · March 24th, 2015, 07:52 AM

I replaced my CX730 (it broke) with a PJ780VE ... the projector is a gimmick and four buttons related to it on the camcorder have stopped working. Including the function that turned the camcorder off if it was on standby for too long. Don't know how or why. Must be a firmware bug as it hasn't been dropped or anything.

The AX33 looks like a 4K version of the PJ780VE that I own.

Craig McKenna · March 31st, 2015, 05:14 PM

I'm really hoping that Sony update the AX100 at NAB. I know that the AX100 has just received a big firmware update, but the lower 4K model camcorders have OIS and other features that the AX seems to lack (from light reading), so I would like to hope that another version of the AX100 comes out... I'm going to get two of them for my ceremony and speeches. Make the cameras match up easier etc.

Dave Blackhurst · March 31st, 2015, 07:45 PM

I'd be surprised to see a replacement this soon - the AX33 starts to fill in the lower end, Sony really needs to finish up the X70 firmware... there are a couple other "holes" in the 4K lineup that need "patching".

Sony is trying hard to get and keep the company profitable, and they have done fairly well leading the market (the RX's and AX's so far are pretty cutting edge designs), but I doubt there's a huge R&D budget for entirely new designs, and they seem to be giving preference to firmware updates that extend the functionality of existing cameras.

I'm thinking the AX100 will be much like the old HC1, it won't be "replaced" any time soon. It's not perfect, but it's a heckuva camera for what it is and does. Of course it's a bit too expensive for the "consumer", but the AX33 helps meet that market.

As much as I'd like to see further models based on the 1" class sensor, I'd expect minor revisions/"marks" rather than entirely new models. As picky as I am, I still find the RX100, RX10, and AX100 for the most part "feel" right and do what I need...

The AX100 does have OIS, it's just not as aggressive as the "magic eyeball", which some felt was a step backwards... but with any sort of proper camera technique (or tripod), it's just fine. I've shot quite a lot handheld and on a monopod, and no complaints about image stability. I am thinking about an AX33 just for the BOSS stabilization, but I'd probably pick up another AX100 at the right price...

Phil Stanley · April 1st, 2015, 01:47 AM

How do the gain figures on a Video relate to ISO or does if differ from model to model?

As a stills shooter I am tuned into to ISO so struggle to relate AG to low light performance

How does say an AX100 compare in low light to say a GH4

Peter Rush · April 1st, 2015, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

They don't make the cx730 anymore, the 810 is not the replacement model though as it has a smaller sensor (1/3.95 for the 810 vs 1/2.88 for the cx730), not sure which type exactly came after the 730.

Low light performance between the ax100 and cx730 is the same, only the cx730 is less noisy at high iso's but the ax100 retains much more detail. At max iso the cx730 image gets softer.

I have a PJ780 and it matches the CX730 perfectly - it's the same sensor but again, not sure if it's a current model.

Noa Put · April 2nd, 2015, 02:41 AM

The 780 is probably the follow up camera of the 730 but at the rate Sony has been bringing out new camera models I"m having a hard time keeping track.

Quote:

How does say an AX100 compare in low light to say a GH4

I did a test and if I recall right I needed iso 3200 and f2.8 to match the ax100 at it's highest gain, this test was just done visually so don't take my word for it. Once you add a f1.4 or even a 0.95 lens the difference becomes more obvious and if you use 6400 iso on the gh4 the image will not be more grainy then the ax100 at it's highest gain setting.

I have some free time on my hands this evening, might do the test again and post the video.

Phil Stanley · April 2nd, 2015, 02:51 AM

Thanks Noa

What is your threshold for gain on the AX100, will you go to the max and then apply neat video if no other choice and lighting cannot be added?

Noa Put · April 2nd, 2015, 04:36 PM

Here are 2 framegrabs from the ax100 and gh4, both images are downscaled 4K frames in a 1080p project, the only thing I did in post was to desaturate the gh4 image to match it more with the ax100. Camera's where positioned at the same distance, the 12mm lens on the gh4 is in 1080p mode a bit wider then the ax100 but a bit narrower in 4K mode.

Both had whitebalance set to indoors, shutter 1/50, the ax100 lens was wide open (f2.8) with 27db gain applied to it and the gh4 had a 12mm lens @ f2.0 and the iso at 3200. The GH4 had a natural profiile with all values set to 0

I selected a gh4 frame that matched the sensitivity of the ax100, the GH4 looks softer but cleaner, the ax100 is becoming very noisy at this max gain setting, when you use a f1.4 lens and 6400 iso on the GH4 the difference in sensitivity becomes quite obvious.

ax100
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/...pscr8zvndz.jpg

gh4 @ 3200 iso
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9vsh4orn.jpg

Just to get the idea how 6400 iso looks like on the GH4;
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4dqx58rx.jpg

March 23rd, 2015, 05:17 AM	#1
Phil Stanley Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: London Posts: 148	Second Camera to AX100 Having purchased the AX100 a few weeks ago and now pretty familiar and pleased with the purchase, I am looking to add a second Camera possibly a third. Our initial aim is to build a competent Wedding kit and we would appreciate any advice on this. My considerations have been an AX33, however before purchasing I would like to be sure as at £1000 it not a cheap second Camera and I guess being new fairly untested to some degree. I did fancy having one camera with the BOSS on for some movement shots. Other options staying with Sony are the CX900 and an RX10, both as I understand have 1" sensors, the CX900 is £1000 and the RX10 approx £650 So am I on the right thought process here or are there better options?

March 23rd, 2015, 05:28 AM	#2
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Second Camera to AX100 One thing to consider is how these camera's will match, I have the ax100 and a cx730, in terms of color they match perfectly, only in terms of detail you see the difference. With the rx10 however I have had more issues getting it color matched, specifically on skintones. I have no idea how the AX33 looks like imagewise but if Sony dialled in the same look as on the ax100 you would be better of getting that one. The rx10 has nice image detail but side to side with the ax100, and especially on wide shots with fine detail the difference is obvious. My cx730's will probably next year be replaced with the ax33, after I have seen more how it performs.

March 23rd, 2015, 05:41 AM	#3
Phil Stanley Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: London Posts: 148	Re: Second Camera to AX100 Thank you Noa The CX730 does not seem to be a current model at present, was it replaced with the CX900 or there seems to be a PJ810 model which I am not familiar with. Do you notice much difference in low light image quality between the AX100 and CX730?

March 23rd, 2015, 07:05 AM	#4
Kyle Root Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Decatur, AL Posts: 883	Re: Second Camera to AX100 Why not just pick up another ax100? I found a used one in brand new condition for $1,019 at a local shop. Excellent deal. B&H has them going for $1,400 used which is also a good price. I'd like to get one, but the x70 focus issues being reported kind of scare me just a bit. But, I'll probably take the plunge. I shot my first wedding with my d750 and 70-200 Saturday and the focus issues on the ax/pw can't be worse than my focusing on that wedding. Lol I don't see how you guys do this with DSLRs at the ceremony. Personally, I'm trying to consolidate all my cameras into ones that match so I have an easier time getting consistent looks between shots. Even when I custom white balance the color matrix of the cameras are all different, so there is still a lot of shot matching to do in post. Trying to eliminate that bottleneck... __________________ Kyle KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com Last edited by Kyle Root; March 23rd, 2015 at 08:32 AM. Reason: info

March 23rd, 2015, 09:22 AM	#6
Bruce Dempsey Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Atlantic Coast Canada Posts: 599	Re: Second Camera to AX100 I have an a5100 on order (should have been here today :( to use with my ax100 which I will either employ for close-ups or static wide shot. It also shoots xavc-s although max 1080 60p and it has a very good autofocus and should be even better than the ax100 in diminished light as it uses the same bionx as the a7s and has a much bigger sensor than the ax100 Does not have mic in or headphone jack Sorry I'm not a weddyviddy so can't say really if it will be good in such circumstances PPS it arrived an hour after this post haraay Last edited by Bruce Dempsey; March 23rd, 2015 at 01:54 PM.

March 24th, 2015, 07:52 AM	#8
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: Second Camera to AX100 I replaced my CX730 (it broke) with a PJ780VE ... the projector is a gimmick and four buttons related to it on the camcorder have stopped working. Including the function that turned the camcorder off if it was on standby for too long. Don't know how or why. Must be a firmware bug as it hasn't been dropped or anything. The AX33 looks like a 4K version of the PJ780VE that I own.

March 31st, 2015, 05:14 PM	#9
Craig McKenna Major Player Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 495	Re: Second Camera to AX100 I'm really hoping that Sony update the AX100 at NAB. I know that the AX100 has just received a big firmware update, but the lower 4K model camcorders have OIS and other features that the AX seems to lack (from light reading), so I would like to hope that another version of the AX100 comes out... I'm going to get two of them for my ceremony and speeches. Make the cameras match up easier etc.

March 31st, 2015, 07:45 PM	#10
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Second Camera to AX100 I'd be surprised to see a replacement this soon - the AX33 starts to fill in the lower end, Sony really needs to finish up the X70 firmware... there are a couple other "holes" in the 4K lineup that need "patching". Sony is trying hard to get and keep the company profitable, and they have done fairly well leading the market (the RX's and AX's so far are pretty cutting edge designs), but I doubt there's a huge R&D budget for entirely new designs, and they seem to be giving preference to firmware updates that extend the functionality of existing cameras. I'm thinking the AX100 will be much like the old HC1, it won't be "replaced" any time soon. It's not perfect, but it's a heckuva camera for what it is and does. Of course it's a bit too expensive for the "consumer", but the AX33 helps meet that market. As much as I'd like to see further models based on the 1" class sensor, I'd expect minor revisions/"marks" rather than entirely new models. As picky as I am, I still find the RX100, RX10, and AX100 for the most part "feel" right and do what I need... The AX100 does have OIS, it's just not as aggressive as the "magic eyeball", which some felt was a step backwards... but with any sort of proper camera technique (or tripod), it's just fine. I've shot quite a lot handheld and on a monopod, and no complaints about image stability. I am thinking about an AX33 just for the BOSS stabilization, but I'd probably pick up another AX100 at the right price...

April 1st, 2015, 01:47 AM	#11
Phil Stanley Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: London Posts: 148	Re: Second Camera to AX100 How do the gain figures on a Video relate to ISO or does if differ from model to model? As a stills shooter I am tuned into to ISO so struggle to relate AG to low light performance How does say an AX100 compare in low light to say a GH4

April 2nd, 2015, 02:51 AM	#14
Phil Stanley Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: London Posts: 148	Re: Second Camera to AX100 Thanks Noa What is your threshold for gain on the AX100, will you go to the max and then apply neat video if no other choice and lighting cannot be added?

April 2nd, 2015, 04:36 PM	#15
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Second Camera to AX100 Here are 2 framegrabs from the ax100 and gh4, both images are downscaled 4K frames in a 1080p project, the only thing I did in post was to desaturate the gh4 image to match it more with the ax100. Camera's where positioned at the same distance, the 12mm lens on the gh4 is in 1080p mode a bit wider then the ax100 but a bit narrower in 4K mode. Both had whitebalance set to indoors, shutter 1/50, the ax100 lens was wide open (f2.8) with 27db gain applied to it and the gh4 had a 12mm lens @ f2.0 and the iso at 3200. The GH4 had a natural profiile with all values set to 0 I selected a gh4 frame that matched the sensitivity of the ax100, the GH4 looks softer but cleaner, the ax100 is becoming very noisy at this max gain setting, when you use a f1.4 lens and 6400 iso on the GH4 the difference in sensitivity becomes quite obvious. ax100 http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/...pscr8zvndz.jpg gh4 @ 3200 iso http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9vsh4orn.jpg Just to get the idea how 6400 iso looks like on the GH4; http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4dqx58rx.jpg