A turning point in video/photo packages?

[Roger Gunkel]

But that works both ways Steve because I get hacked off with the endless discussions over 'whether this or that camera gets the better bouquet', 'how can I get round the crap audio recording in my dslr', should I upgrade my GH3 to a GH4', 'how much better is the C300 than the C100' .

It's as tedious an any other subject that you have heard over and over again, but it's a forum and people can talk about what they want. It's also new to many new members, so really you should just do what I do, don't go on the thread and whinge about the content, either ignore it or put up with it. Have a cup of tea and chill out like me :-)

Roger

[Roger Gunkel]

Thinking a bit more about this Steve and I think that your comments about people going on about content and interrupting technical discussion, is biased on your personal preference. This particular thread is about the dual video and photo package, so most of the discussion has been about whether it is possible to achieve that.

Most of the thrust of the discussion is going to be about whether the quality of the content will suffer by trying to offer both, so the technical aspect is secondary to the content side. What equipment is used and how that equipment is utilized is of course important, but not more important that what client expectations are and whether those expectations can be met with a dual package, either solo or with more than one shooter. So I think that if we are discussing fairly, then client expectations are a very big part of that discussion.

Roger

[Steve Burkett]

I'm not referring to entire threads. Some of those you mention I ignore, others are relevant to me and not you, so I'll dip into. Yes the umpteenth 'which camera shall I choose' can seem repetitive, but as you say we get new people and the discussions can sometimes reveal new things. After all camera gear is always changing. If I feel a thread annoys me, I'll avoid, though rarely any do. In fact the cliche, 'are we forgetting it's about content' doesn't annoy me as such as amuse me or at worse cause me to utter a mild groan. I can discuss camera gear & tech at length here and still deliver good content to my client. It's not one or the other with me.

Dragging back to this thread though, the Photographer I worked with yesterday does video. However as I suspected would be a problem, she finds the editing not to her liking, so her latest venture as a single operator is to offer a shoot it yourself service. She lends the camera to Weddings she's shoots photos for, and delivers the footage, minimum editing. Sounds like a different approach to the combi service. Which begs the questions, if she's getting lots of takes on this, with other Photographers offering video add ons, solo Shoot it Yourself companies out there too, plus Shortform, Highlights only companies, Marryoke only companies and documentary companies like myself; is it really still only 10% of Weddings that have some company shooting some form of video for them.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel

Thinking a bit more about this Steve and I think that your comments about people going on about content and interrupting technical discussion, is biased on your personal preference. This particular thread is about the dual video and photo package, so most of the discussion has been about whether it is possible to achieve that.

Roger

Roger, I don't mind talking about content. Honestly this thread has been fascinating for the content side as well as the tech. Let's not blow a minor comment out of proportion, I just find the single comments like 'we tend to forget what the bride wants' and other such similar lines a bit repetitive. I listen to my clients a lot, emails, phone calls. They have my ear 24/7 it seems. So when I'm talking some techy issue and someone says, 'we're forgetting what the bride wants', I either laugh or groan depending on my mood that day.

[Roger Gunkel]

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

Roger, I don't mind talking about content. Honestly this thread has been fascinating for the content side as well as the tech. Let's not blow a minor comment out of proportion, I just find the single comments like 'we tend to forget what the bride wants' and other such similar lines a bit repetitive. I listen to my clients a lot, emails, phone calls. They have my ear 24/7 it seems. So when I'm talking some techy issue and someone says, 'we're forgetting what the bride wants', I either laugh or groan depending on my mood that day.

That's fair enough Steve and I'll admit that the content thing with me is a bone of contention as I see so many threads dedicated to improving the technical aspects in the wedding section, where the content seems to be of little interest to many, so I'll move on as well.

Your reflections on type of wedding video offerings is also an interesting one as I can only judge percentages by my own experiences over the years and surveys carried out. The joint survey last year between the Daily Mail and the National Wedding Magazine apparently covered 5000 brides before and after the wedding. Only 10% of UK brides had a video but apparently 92% who didn't, wished they had afterwards. That suggests that videographers are not getting the message across or are not selling what the brides want.

Photography has reached the status of traditional, but video hasn't, so it seems logical to me to combine the two. For me and Chris, that seems to have increased the level of interest and also given me bookings and enquiries for much further ahead than I have experienced before. I am also finding some interesting information from clients on their views on photographers and what they offer, plus the opportunity to talk to potential clients who may not have talked to us without the photography.

Roger

[Steve Burkett]

I think that my original point stands Roger that this is a Videographers forum and many come here to discuss tech. If they're like me, this becomes their main resource to do so and learn from how others approach things. Recent discussion on attaching a recorder to a roving handheld wireless mic was quite inspirational and I welcome such threads. If you feel that content needs more discussion though, start a thread.

Going to your 2nd point; I agree there is an untapped resource here. It's widely acknowledged that video is the most under valued service in the Wedding Industry. Even clients who have booked me don't really recognise it's full value until after the Wedding. Problem is, how to change that.
A Bride's priority is always going to be what's happening on the day; the Photographer too is a part of that process as the Photo Session is usually a key event. What part of the day do Videographers dominate; none. They record the day as unobtrusively as possible. There's no Video Session listed in any timetable; well not in my Weddings. Perhaps those that offer Shortform benefit from this, as they make recording the video part of the day, or at least in some examples I've seen with endless shots of the Bride and Groom together.

The closest I get to this is the Marryoke, but even this is left up to me to work behind the scenes. Of course after the Wedding, the focus is on the memory and in this the Video excels. I just wish I could market Videos to couples after their Wedding, then nip back in time and film it for them. I'd be flooded with bookings.

[Noa Put]

There's no Video Session listed in any timetable; well not in my Weddings.

I think the main reason for this is, is that most of us, including me, don't ask for that time. I"m comfortable with just letting the photog to do all the work during the photoshoot and to include them in my shot as well for the videopart and I do take pictures also for my dvd covers while they are taking their photos.

I"m pretty sure if I would demand videotime as well they would plan it in but probably still call it photoshoot :)

[Chris Harding]

If I'm doing a video only wedding where my photog isn't there I DO ask for the time. Normally pre-arranged with the photog and I do it directly after the group photos are all done but before the bridal party photoshoot. This allows me to do a stedicam shoot with just the bride and groom and also is ideal to zap off some quick poses for the DVD cover if the bride has her own photog. (Despite sincere promises I have yet to have any photog actually send me any images so I take them myself or my own photog will take them)

I guess I have a "video photoshoot" as an essential part of my packages so I need to allocate time for it.

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi Chris,

Your time with the couple is something that I don't do at all as I like to capture what unfolds at a wedding as a fly on the wall documentary. That would mean that I would see what you are doing in your own time with the couple as constructing something just for the video, which is not a criticism, just an observation on a slight variation of how we both work.

The only thing that I do that I would see as just for the video, is when I sometimes go round a table to ask for messages to the couple. I also see all posed shots, romantic and groups, as set up shots which have become traditional and expected over the years. I think that is what I enjoy about documentary video, it is a live vibrant medium which captures the essence of what the day is all about without intruding on it, whereas posed photography is an artificial set up moment to go on the wall or in an album to be occasionally dusted off.

Roger

[Chris Harding]

Hi Roger

At photoshoot venues it amuses me when I see the photog setting up the posed shots and two eager video guys on either side shooting the whole thing ..I always tell brides that I never shoot the photographer taking pictures of the bridal party and they are happy with that. My little shoot (about 10 minutes tops) is my contribution to the more creative side and the brides love it as it's set to their favourite romantic song. All I do is take them on a little walk away from the remainder of the bridal party and do some soppy stuff including what Don calls roundie-rounds and that's about it ... Along with our "video guestbook" which brides also love the two are sort of signature features of our packages to make us just a little different from the rest of the pack of competitors. I've always done those two in my doc packages and to take them out would more than likely be a mistake so they stay!!

It's sometimes tricky to get an arrogant photog that I don't know to let me have the couple for 10 minutes but that issue is becoming less and less now as we book dual packages

If we all did exactly the same thing at a wedding it would be somewhat boring!!


Chris

[Peter Rush]

Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel

Your reflections on type of wedding video offerings is also an interesting one as I can only judge percentages by my own experiences over the years and surveys carried out. The joint survey last year between the Daily Mail and the National Wedding Magazine apparently covered 5000 brides before and after the wedding. Only 10% of UK brides had a video but apparently 92% who didn't, wished they had afterwards. That suggests that videographers are not getting the message across or are not selling what the brides want.

Roger I'd like to quote that statistic to prospective couples - do you have a link to the survey? I've googled but can't find it

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi Peter,

That's interesting as I googled the survey last November and there were a lot of interesting statistics, but when I googled again yesterday to post a link I couldn't find it at all. It was a Daily Mail/National Wedding Magazine survey. A couple of other threads linked to it last year, so you may be able to track them down. I'll try another search today as I would like to be able to give it to brides.

Roger

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

At photoshoot venues it amuses me when I see the photog setting up the posed shots and two eager video guys on either side shooting the whole thing ..
Chris

There are times when I do capture part of the photo shoot. For one thing it's a good opportunity to ensure coverage of key guests, other times it's nice to show the behind the scenes of a photo shoot. Some can be quite lively, with a lot of laughter and mockery, such as when a particular guest is late or doesn't stand in the right position. Kids can be great here too. I agree it can be pretty dull for the most part and I avoid just repeating what the Photographer is capturing albeit with video, but if filmed well, it can make for a nice little piece in the video.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Steve

Again as Roger says we all work in different ways! Photoshoots here involve just the bridal party going off to a few different venues ..never the guests ...family groups are done at the ceremony venue and normally dispensed with quickly so the bridal party can have maximum time getting their "special photos"

When we do our dual shoots we are doing photos anyway so I will team up with the wife and do groups then do my video shoot at the first location. After that the video stuff and stedicam is back in the car and I'm onto stills until reception time ... while I have the B&G for video the rest of the bridal party are doing stills with wifey so it works well.

Chris

[Roger Gunkel]

In the UK, once the ceremony is over, the main wedding party and guests tend to remain together at most weddings, with groups being called by the photographer. He will probably take the B&G away from the guests for a while to do some romantic shots.

Like Steve, we always include part of the photographer's groups in the video as it is quite a big part of the day. The setting up of the poses, funny comments etc are what we film, with the actual posed shot being of little importance. We do exactly the same if we are doing the dual package, and if I am doing a solo dual shoot I will video the preparation before taking the stills of each group.

Roger