Audio from the first dance at DVinfo.net

Jeremy Lee · January 21st, 2015, 04:58 PM

I interviewed the brides grandparents and while the bride and groom did their first dance I laid the grandparents audio track over the video of the dance and I pulled down the background song they were dancing too so that the grandparent's story would be the main audio. It looks nice having them dance while the story is heard, but I wonder if legally it is wrong to do this. Any thoughts?

Don Bloom · January 21st, 2015, 06:33 PM

Why would it be legally wrong?

Jeremy Lee · January 21st, 2015, 07:23 PM

Sorry...typo...I wanted to know if there is a copyright issue with being able to hear the song they danced too. The grandparent's audio is the main audio during that portion, but I am wanting to know that since you can hear the first dance song could that be flagged as a copyright issue.
Thanks
JDL

Don Bloom · January 21st, 2015, 10:09 PM

Oh OK that's a good question. What I mean is that this subject has been discussed many times and there are a lot of different answers. I can only tell you what an IP lawyer told me. Actually there were 8 of them sitting at a table at a wedding I covered some years ago and I was sitting with them having dinner. I popped the question about the music and all of them said the same thing. The music is incidental to the video. It happened to be playing while I was shooting so it isn't something that any of them would worry about. BTW, they all worked at 2 different ad agencies and their job was clearances so I had to take what they said with a bit of seriousness.
At the same time in my 30 years of doing weddings I never had a problem with the music that was played being recorded and used in the video since it was secondary to the video.

DISCLAIMER........HOWEVER...I am NOT a lawyer nor am I giving legal advise. All I'm doing is relating something that I was told about 12 years or so ago by some people who did not represent me in any capacity.
HTHs

Arthur Gannis · January 21st, 2015, 10:21 PM

Can DJ music be considered as ambient "noise" along with all the guests voices, clapping, children screaming, etc., that is inevitable on a wedding day? I mean it is part of a mix of sounds that was not
orchestrated in whole or in part by the cameraman to begin with. Must we videographers also watch out for background Mariachi music when we go on a Mexican vacation and put our tequila drinking binge on YouTube or Facebook ? Come to think about it, I never sold any wedding videos AFTER the "noise" was captured, so the INTENT to sell any particular song(s) cannot have been preconceived before the event when the client has initially paid for the services. In my opinion music is the sole responsibility of the DJ/band that has been hired separately just for that purpose. I don't tell the music maker what to play, so why should I be held responsible for it ?

Robert Benda · January 22nd, 2015, 07:30 AM

Often, how much of the song appears, how cleanly, and what the camera is pointed at. If you're shooting a bunch of random stuff and its noisy and music happens to be playing, no (few) worries.

If you're pointing your camera at the first dance and show all four minutes, its hard to argue its incidental since most would consider the song a full part of that first dance. I know the lawyers for the copyright owners certainly will when the video gets tagged on YouTube.

For Jeremy, it sounds like you would very deliberately be using the song for soundtracking, and that puts you in trouble. Either keep it offline, or choose a song you can license via one of the main legal sites.

Jeremy Lee · January 22nd, 2015, 08:43 AM

Thanks Robert for your input. Having the first dance music removed sounds like the best option. I was thinking that since the music wasn't that noticeable or I mean dominate compared to the Voice Over I would just let it slide. But the more I thought about it I think I should just remove the music all together so that no boats are rocked. Also to everyone else too, thanks for the Food for Thought!
JDL

Craig McKenna · January 22nd, 2015, 12:43 PM

Such a nightmare that these things need to be considered!

I always think about mixtapes - they're not sold in the shops, but they are widely available in the hip hop community. They have online sites, such as MixUnit, which openly sell DJ mixes... for me, what's the difference? The DJs sell 'their' music with a few extra spins of the record and a few shout outs... but the songs remain largely the same.... I don't see why wedding videography should be different to this?

Not that I have any legal background or even have the slightest clue as to what I'm talking about, but if they can pretty much play commercial tracks with a few voice overs and changes here and there, then why can't videographers record a dance with grandma and grandad talking?

Crazy. Makes you think that photography is the way to go over videography with crazy licensing issues like that!

Robert Benda · January 22nd, 2015, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

I always think about mixtapes - they're not sold in the shops, but they are widely available in the hip hop community. They have online sites, such as MixUnit, which openly sell DJ mixes... for me, what's the difference? The DJs sell 'their' music with a few extra spins of the record and a few shout outs... but the songs remain largely the same.... I don't see why wedding videography should be different to this?

Because those sites and mixtapes are almost always illegal. Often they disappear after a while. There are exceptions but often the record labels recruit DJs to make legit remixes that they then offer up (often for sale on iTunes).

January 21st, 2015, 04:58 PM	#1
Jeremy Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 30	Audio from the first dance I interviewed the brides grandparents and while the bride and groom did their first dance I laid the grandparents audio track over the video of the dance and I pulled down the background song they were dancing too so that the grandparent's story would be the main audio. It looks nice having them dance while the story is heard, but I wonder if legally it is wrong to do this. Any thoughts?

January 21st, 2015, 06:33 PM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: Audio from the first dance Why would it be legally wrong? __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

January 21st, 2015, 07:23 PM	#3
Jeremy Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 30	Re: Audio from the first dance Sorry...typo...I wanted to know if there is a copyright issue with being able to hear the song they danced too. The grandparent's audio is the main audio during that portion, but I am wanting to know that since you can hear the first dance song could that be flagged as a copyright issue. Thanks JDL

January 21st, 2015, 10:09 PM	#4
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: Audio from the first dance Oh OK that's a good question. What I mean is that this subject has been discussed many times and there are a lot of different answers. I can only tell you what an IP lawyer told me. Actually there were 8 of them sitting at a table at a wedding I covered some years ago and I was sitting with them having dinner. I popped the question about the music and all of them said the same thing. The music is incidental to the video. It happened to be playing while I was shooting so it isn't something that any of them would worry about. BTW, they all worked at 2 different ad agencies and their job was clearances so I had to take what they said with a bit of seriousness. At the same time in my 30 years of doing weddings I never had a problem with the music that was played being recorded and used in the video since it was secondary to the video. DISCLAIMER........HOWEVER...I am NOT a lawyer nor am I giving legal advise. All I'm doing is relating something that I was told about 12 years or so ago by some people who did not represent me in any capacity. HTHs __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

January 21st, 2015, 10:21 PM	#5
Arthur Gannis Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey USA Posts: 504	Re: Audio from the first dance Can DJ music be considered as ambient "noise" along with all the guests voices, clapping, children screaming, etc., that is inevitable on a wedding day? I mean it is part of a mix of sounds that was not orchestrated in whole or in part by the cameraman to begin with. Must we videographers also watch out for background Mariachi music when we go on a Mexican vacation and put our tequila drinking binge on YouTube or Facebook ? Come to think about it, I never sold any wedding videos AFTER the "noise" was captured, so the INTENT to sell any particular song(s) cannot have been preconceived before the event when the client has initially paid for the services. In my opinion music is the sole responsibility of the DJ/band that has been hired separately just for that purpose. I don't tell the music maker what to play, so why should I be held responsible for it ?

January 22nd, 2015, 07:30 AM	#6
Robert Benda Trustee Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Crookston, MN Posts: 1,353	Re: Audio from the first dance Often, how much of the song appears, how cleanly, and what the camera is pointed at. If you're shooting a bunch of random stuff and its noisy and music happens to be playing, no (few) worries. If you're pointing your camera at the first dance and show all four minutes, its hard to argue its incidental since most would consider the song a full part of that first dance. I know the lawyers for the copyright owners certainly will when the video gets tagged on YouTube. For Jeremy, it sounds like you would very deliberately be using the song for soundtracking, and that puts you in trouble. Either keep it offline, or choose a song you can license via one of the main legal sites.

January 22nd, 2015, 08:43 AM	#7
Jeremy Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 30	Re: Audio from the first dance Thanks Robert for your input. Having the first dance music removed sounds like the best option. I was thinking that since the music wasn't that noticeable or I mean dominate compared to the Voice Over I would just let it slide. But the more I thought about it I think I should just remove the music all together so that no boats are rocked. Also to everyone else too, thanks for the Food for Thought! JDL

January 22nd, 2015, 12:43 PM	#8
Craig McKenna Major Player Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 495	Re: Audio from the first dance Such a nightmare that these things need to be considered! I always think about mixtapes - they're not sold in the shops, but they are widely available in the hip hop community. They have online sites, such as MixUnit, which openly sell DJ mixes... for me, what's the difference? The DJs sell 'their' music with a few extra spins of the record and a few shout outs... but the songs remain largely the same.... I don't see why wedding videography should be different to this? Not that I have any legal background or even have the slightest clue as to what I'm talking about, but if they can pretty much play commercial tracks with a few voice overs and changes here and there, then why can't videographers record a dance with grandma and grandad talking? Crazy. Makes you think that photography is the way to go over videography with crazy licensing issues like that!