Has anyone here switched from 5D3 to GH4 for weddings?

[Ger Griffin]

Hi all.
About 10 years ago we were all debating whether or not there would be a need for a photographer in the future, with the ability to framebrab from the 4k footage. I think anyone who knows weddings will agree that there will always be a need for a photographer, if only to organise groups etc.
But lately Ive been considering moving to the GH4 from the 5mk3 for this exact reason.
I do get asked for stills from the footage quite a bit and have to dissapoint couples in my reply.
I would love to be able to at least be able to to provide the service to those that need the framegrabs later for whatever reason. Perhaps the photographer missed the key moment etc. Its a delicate issue that we are all going to have to address in the near future with our photographer pals.

Has anyone moved from the 5d3 to the GH4 for this purpose? And if so are you happy with your decision?

Im really hesitant as for the first time in my career Im truely happy with the look Im getting from my camera/lens combo (50L on 5d3 for most of the day). 720p 50 is gorgeous on the 5d3.

Id be thowing that shallow DOF and smooth slowmo away in a trade for printable footage.

Logic tells me to wait for a Canon or Nikon FF 4k solution to keep the FF look and lets be honest, the A7s with shogun is an akward and slightly expensive solution (I'd need 2).

[Roger Gunkel]

Ii wouldn't worry about what photographers think. As they have over 90% of the wedding market and videographers about 10%, I'd be more worried about photographers offering video on their dslrs and taking the rest of the market.

Roger

[Adrian Tan]

Hey Ger, I've got a feeling no one has made the swap for that particular reason, and that, therefore, you yourself are best placed to answer whether it's a swap worth making, since you know your market and know how many people are actually asking for or would be happy with frame grabs.

Just to rehash old ideas, frame grabs are never going to be as good as a dedicated creative photographer, for a whole bunch of reasons, including lack of raw capability, motion blur at 1/50, and restrictions in portrait framing and Dutch tilts. That said, I believe you could extract enough usable frame grabs from general video footage, without specifically shooting for that, to make the process worthwhile, if the couple are on a low budget. And the reason I say that is mainly because Nigel, who posts on this forum, has done so, using HD grabs from C300 footage.

Whether shooting on a GH4 would compromise your video quality, given that you're really happy with your current setup... Well, I think it's the operator that matters much more than the camera, that a GH4 would bring plusses as well as minuses, and that you could work around any limitations to get great footage.

In terms of waiting for a 4K Canon (assuming a 1DC is out of the question), I think the main factor is how pressing your need is. If a 5DIV with 4K came out in fourth quarter next year, is that too late for you? Do you really want to provide frame grabs to couples right now? You're in the best position to answer that...

[Craig McKenna]

You'd need to consider the drawbacks of the GH4 vs the 5D3 even more... like how does low light performance compare to the 5D3 on the GH4? Personally, I find myself looking at the A7S with a sad face, wishing my GH4's ISO performance was similar. With the discussions around organic sensors (Panasonic / Fuji) and Sony's ASPC chips around the corner, I'd personally wait until a breakthrough similar to the A7S comes alongside 4K in-body.

You sound like you enjoy the Full Frame look - that in itself is harder to achieve on a GH4, even with the flurry of great prime lenses. E.g. your 50L would be replaced with the 25mm f/1.4 Panasonic-Leica lens on a GH4, yet would only provide you with f/2.8 equivalent on a full frame.

I'd recommend waiting to see if Canon is willing to take away the 1DC's current position as being the only body with 4K and whether the 5D4 arrives with 4K in body. If it was to do so, then you have the best of both worlds.

However, do you think Canon will offer 4K in body in the near future? Their C100 MK2 didn't receive 4K.

[Steve Burkett]

If I was a betting man, I'd wager that 4k will make it's introduction with either a 5d Mark IV or a C400 (should such a camera occur). The C100 Mark II was hardly likely to upstage the C300 with 4k, no more than the 7d Mark II would upstage the 5d Mark III.
I've used the GH4 very happily since May, love the camera. The stills I get from 4k are more useful for DVD Covers than to the couples. Few ask for the service. Personally I'd stick with whatever system you have. I wouldn't switch to another system on the basis of one feature. Not unless you're sitting on a fortune.

[Craig McKenna]

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

If I was a betting man, I'd wager that 4k will make it's introduction with either a 5d Mark IV or a C400 (should such a camera occur). The C100 Mark II was hardly likely to upstage the C300 with 4k, no more than the 7d Mark II would upstage the 5d Mark III.
I've used the GH4 very happily since May, love the camera. The stills I get from 4k are more useful for DVD Covers than to the couples. Few ask for the service. Personally I'd stick with whatever system you have. I wouldn't switch to another system on the basis of one feature. Not unless you're sitting on a fortune.

What Steve said.

Interesting to consider 4K coming to a 5D IV though... and the C400 would be so expensive, I'd say it would be out of the price range (considering 5D3 vs GH4).

I also love the GH4, but I'm hoping long term for there to be a significant improvement in the ISO performance.

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

What Steve said.

Interesting to consider 4K coming to a 5D IV though... and the C400 would be so expensive, I'd say it would be out of the price range (considering 5D3 vs GH4).

I also love the GH4, but I'm hoping long term for there to be a significant improvement in the ISO performance.

I love the GH4 too and honestly haven't shot video with my 5D3 since getting it!

What will also be interesting will be to see what Sony's new sensor technology is like ( Sony kills Bayer sensors: Will Olympus next High End OMD use the new APCS (active pixel color sampling) sensor? | 43 Rumors ) and if it will be in Olympus's next body with 4K, perhaps with 5 axis stabiization.... now that could be a very interesting product!

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

What Steve said.


I also love the GH4, but I'm hoping long term for there to be a significant improvement in the ISO performance.

I'm not hedging bets on major ISO improvements in the Panasonic. Just not seeing that as a priority for them. All the camera companies make decisions more on potential profits rather than customer satisfaction. Nikon and Canon are the top dogs in Photography, so good low light is given a priority more for the Photographers sake than Videographers. Unfortunately an impressive range of cameras restricts innovation. Sony and Panasonic are however pushing 4K, no small coincidence they also both make TV's. I'd be looking at what Sony is doing for next year. Recent news suggests they're pushing ahead on the video side, so fullframe and internal 4k isn't too far away I'm sure.

[Ger Griffin]

Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel

Ii wouldn't worry about what photographers think. As they have over 90% of the wedding market and videographers about 10%, I'd be more worried about photographers offering video on their dslrs and taking the rest of the market.

Roger

Yes they'll try but they'll fail. They'll soon realise the true lenghts they have to go to produce what we produce. The editing etc. will put them off I believe. We all know its harder than it appears to produce a truely good wedding vid and takes years of refining of techniques and skills. But true, if they are backed into a corner they may come out fighting.

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

Personally I'd stick with whatever system you have. I wouldn't switch to another system on the basis of one feature. Not unless you're sitting on a fortune.

Sounds like good advice. Its why I havent bit the bullet regardless of how many youtube videos are telling me the 5d3 is no longer the camera to have for video shooting. Personally I like the softness of the image. Its just right I feel for a brides face. I think Id even be tempted to soften the footage out of the gh4.
I dont see a fortune being made but i do see the cost of the cameras being covered with a few extra bob in my pocket at the end of the year. Would it be worth all the hassle though? No probably not.

[Michael Thames]

Sounds like good advice. Its why I havent bit the bullet regardless of how many youtube videos are telling me the 5d3 is no longer the camera to have for video shooting. Personally I like the softness of the image. Its just right I feel for a brides face. I think Id even be tempted to soften the footage out of the gh4.
I dont see a fortune being made but i do see the cost of the cameras being covered with a few extra bob in my pocket at the end of the year. Would it be worth all the hassle though? No probably not.[/QUOTE]

I feel the same way, I love the softness and color of the 5D3 it's great for close ups. I don't think the GH4 would be very flattering to a brides face without a softening filter.

I too have survived the propaganda Youtube comparisons.

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by Michael Thames

Sounds like good advice. Its why I havent bit the bullet regardless of how many youtube videos are telling me the 5d3 is no longer the camera to have for video shooting. Personally I like the softness of the image. Its just right I feel for a brides face. I think Id even be tempted to soften the footage out of the gh4.
I dont see a fortune being made but i do see the cost of the cameras being covered with a few extra bob in my pocket at the end of the year. Would it be worth all the hassle though? No probably not.

I feel the same way, I love the softness and color of the 5D3 it's great for close ups. I don't think the GH4 would be very flattering to a brides face without a softening filter.

I too have survived the propaganda Youtube comparisons.[/QUOTE]

In post production it's easier to soften than to create detail, even with a good sharpening filter. RB Looks has a filter that can target faces and soften them. I do like the image of the 5d Mark III, the full frame look though is more than just about softness, it's the ease with which shallow depth of field can be done. For the GH4, I have to use long lenses to get the same effect, not always practical at Weddings. Though it does stop me from over using depth of field too on the plus side.
However I'm not just filming faces; I recently did some filming in the Yorkshire Dales, where the 4K made a real difference in creating some great footage. I did something similar years back with the Canon 60D and was very disappointed. So I'm very pleased with the GH4... for now.
Just one other point on softness, Photographers are taking photos at Weddings with resolutions far greater than 4K. Are they all softening their images to compensate?

[Daniel Latimer]

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

It's the ease with which shallow depth of field can be done. For the GH4, I have to use long lenses to get the same effect, not always practical at Weddings. Though it does stop me from over using depth of field too on the plus side.

Micro 4/3 also has some really fast lens. Voigtlander and SLR magic has some .95 lens that aren't telephoto so you can get that shallow depth of field easier, when you want it.

[Craig McKenna]

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

I'm not hedging bets on major ISO improvements in the Panasonic. Just not seeing that as a priority for them. All the camera companies make decisions more on potential profits rather than customer satisfaction. Nikon and Canon are the top dogs in Photography, so good low light is given a priority more for the Photographers sake than Videographers. Unfortunately an impressive range of cameras restricts innovation. Sony and Panasonic are however pushing 4K, no small coincidence they also both make TV's. I'd be looking at what Sony is doing for next year. Recent news suggests they're pushing ahead on the video side, so fullframe and internal 4k isn't too far away I'm sure.

Really? I think high ISO is the one main issues for a lot of people when considering shooting with M4/3. If they can double performance in this area, moving from acceptable 3200 to 6400, then I think many people will raise their eyebrows and take note. Thus gaining them more sales.

A shallow depth of field can be achieved with one of the great prime lenses that are available, along with major advancements in recent years with regards to autofocus, lens selection - with the introduction of the pro zooms - and ultimately, video features / codecs.

The one main feature missing from the Panasonic line up is IBIS. The GX7 has it, yet it hasn't made its way over to the GH line. Surely, next time, it won't be omitted and Panasonic will have a run at Oly's brilliant IBIS in the EM1?

Sony sounds about right though and I found your 4K comment interesting - definitely makes sense!!!

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Daniel Latimer

Micro 4/3 also has some really fast lens. Voigtlander and SLR magic has some .95 lens that aren't telephoto so you can get that shallow depth of field easier, when you want it.

All manual lenses unfortunately. Shooting weddings you need speedy setup & reliable focusing & the easiest way is to use autofocus to nail the shot before you start rolling. It's OK focusing manually once shooting but making sure that when you go to grab the shot that you are not hunting for focus is helpful.

I like the MFT cameras as they are so much lighter & more agile than using a 5D3 or C100 but the advantage that the Canon cameras have if that the colours look fabulous straight out of camera & with the 5D2/3 the softer less than proper 1080p resolution is actually very flattering. You also don't have to work at getting cool looking out of focus background with exotic manual lenses as even the F/4 lenses will give smooth bokeh.

[Daniel Latimer]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

All manual lenses unfortunately. Shooting weddings you need speedy setup & reliable focusing & the easiest way is to use autofocus to nail the shot before you start rolling. It's OK focusing manually once shooting but making sure that when you go to grab the shot that you are not hunting for focus is helpful.

While your system may be easier to a certain extent, but I don't think it's a huge difference. I don't have any lenses in my kit that are autofocus. It may take some initial practice to get use to using manual lenses, but it's not something that has had an ill effect on my work. I really like having the aperture on the lens instead of the camera.