Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business at DVinfo.net

Steven Digges · October 30th, 2014, 09:34 PM

I read over and over again about how still photographers are a mandatory presence at weddings. Then you say, videographers are hired at about ten percent of weddings. So... here is my idea, create a paradigm shift. Technology is on your side. We all know video is easier to use and share than ever before, but I don't think a lot of your potential clients know how easy that is. If I was a wedding guy I would have one of my web pages and a printed piece of paper (for face to face meetings) declaring all of the potential uses for the video. It would be a "Did you know?" document.

Everyone knows the benefit of still photos:

They hang on your walls and make your house a warm personal place.

They go in albums to record your life history.

They go on coffee mugs.

They are your screen saver, etc. etc etc. The list is long!

Why don't you guys compile a list of the benefits of video here for everyone to use because the general public is not aware of much it:

For example:

Did you know YouTube accounts are free?

Did you know your videos can be password protected so no one sees them except the people with the password?

Did you know you can send an e-mail to anyone you want to see your video?

Did you know there is a site called Vimeo where you can do the same thing and it is very high quality. It is free too.

Did you know your family and friends can download your video from these sites because you gave them permission to?

Did you know I WILL put your video on the sites you choose so this will happen?

Lets see what you guys can come up with to educate your potential customers so your video is not seen as just a DVD that gets watched once and collects dust after that. Technology is on your side, but the parents paying for the wedding don't know that. Educate them. Your product has value and uses the potential client is not even aware of!

Steve

Chris Harding · October 31st, 2014, 02:45 AM

Nice one Steve!

I think the one BIG issue is that brides tend to book the venue, the photog, the chairs, cake and a whole lot else THEN decide "Ooh..we should have a video but do we have any money left?"

My method of circumventing being way down on the pecking order is to do combined packages. The moment you say Photography and video you are zoomed to the top of the priority list and if you can achieve that then selling the advantages of video is easy.

I seldom get any brides asking for a wedding video nowdays ..they all want the combined package which means they are a 99% cert to book.

Yes I agree 100% with your points but I still feel that video is only 10% of the market simply because brides place more importance on chair sashes!! The problem is HOW do you get to brides offering just video before they have spent all their money on other things ... Us offering photo and video packages we get looked at much earlier and then selling the video concept is much easier because she still has a fairly good amount of her budget left.

Chris

Robert Benda · October 31st, 2014, 12:25 PM

My philosophy is to try and figure out as many ways as is reasonable for the client AND their family/friends to enjoy the video and to get our name in front of the extended group.

I make the long form for the brides, but the short form (15 minutes) is for repeat viewings and stronger emotional impact.

Maybe now that I've got more experience and am more efficient with my editing, I'll start making a trailer.

I'm also VERY much trying to figure out how to use the GIFs that some photogs already use. For us, I think they'd go great on our websites (since auto-play video is the devil), or to use as attention getters on social media when posting their videos.

Our photo booth add-on is also a great attention getter - we print the photos, then post the gallery to facebook, along with a stop-motion video of the pics. Guests have the option to leave us their email. We post it before they go to work on Monday. At a good event, several hundred people will see that material with our name all over it.

Daniel Latimer · October 31st, 2014, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Benda

I'm also VERY much trying to figure out how to use the GIFs that some photogs already use. For us, I think they'd go great on our websites (since auto-play video is the devil), or to use as attention getters on social media when posting their videos.

Does the GIF work on social media? I have put some GIFs in blog post, but I haven't figure out a way to make the GIF do anything on Facebook, etc.

Noa Put · October 31st, 2014, 01:22 PM

Do you have an example how that gif looks like?

Robert Benda · October 31st, 2014, 02:07 PM

Not sure about GIFs on Facebook and such, though a Vine might work, too.

As for what it should look like, I don't have the excellent B&G one I saw, where they're holding hands on a rooftop, looking over the city, but here is one:

http://cinemagraphs.com/images/demo/...rkle-1-429.gif

David Barnett · October 31st, 2014, 02:35 PM

I think the fact the a printed picture is a tangible object trumps all the appeals to video. Media changes, media formats change, viewing habits change, who knows if youtube & vimeo will really be as big in 10-20 years etc... Whatever the case, they can still hold on to their picture book.

Its like your trying to sell a manual transmission car to someone who only wants to drive an automatic. You can try selling them on it's Bose surround sound, power windows, keyfab pushbutton start, sunroof, leather seats, built in GPS, wifi & Pandora, $2000 under MSRP, etc etc etc.... They'll still want an automatic.

Noa Put · October 31st, 2014, 03:03 PM

Quote:

They'll still want an automatic

Unless you live in Europe, automatics are only used by the elderly and disabled people over here :)

About those gifs, is that not a bit cheesy? how would those gain more business?

Roger Gunkel · October 31st, 2014, 04:11 PM

I'm completely with Chris on this (again). As nearly all weddings have a photographer, we offer a joint video and photography package which has really taken off since we started offering it. Those that may not previously have looked at video, are looking at the photography side and that gives us the chance to explain how we integrate the video and photography in a package that saves them overall cost but gives them so much more.

Photographers at wedding shows hate it, so we must be doing something right :-)

Roger

Robert Benda · October 31st, 2014, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Unless you live in Europe, automatics are only used by the elderly and disabled people over here :)

About those gifs, is that not a bit cheesy? how would those gain more business?

Just as an attention getter. How do we show off our work on websites/social media? We aren't photographers, so still photos seem wrong, somehow. Auto-play videos are the devil, or don't work on social media.

I thought a stylized GIF (maybe movie poster style), *might* be a great attention getter.

Noa Put · October 31st, 2014, 05:26 PM

Quote:

How do we show off our work on websites/social media?

I don't believe in that gif stuff, the only thing you need is good content, my last demo I posted here (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-...e-wedding.html) I placed it on my website and informed the weddingplanner that worked for the couple and below you can see what happened right after that.

The weddingplanner placed the video on her facebook (she embedded the video which doesn't autostart) and informed the couple about it and one day after I contacted the weddingplanner the number of views and facebook likes exploded, people like Joe Simon probably will have a laugh about these number of views but for a small timer like me those are big numbers. :)
The larger number of direct plays on my website vs the number of place directly on facebook must also be a direct link the couple or someone else made to my website, maybe also on facebook.

Don't underestimate the power of facebook.

Chris Harding · October 31st, 2014, 05:54 PM

Ani GIF's are very cheesy and I do agree with Noa here! They might OK for low class advertising but certainly not for video. Sorta much the same as the billboard on the highway that promotes the roadhouse down further with a mechanical arm that raises and lowers a cup to the character's mouth.

My wife does photos for me (mostly when I'm on video) and there is a long period at the reception where there is really no need for a photog at all so we put up a simple white backdrop in the corner, have a bag with some funny hats and wigs and voila we have an open photobooth. Wow, that is popular and so simple too. That has also made selling video a whole lot easier as we can offer photography, video and a photobooth and the wife doesn't get bored at receptions either. Photogs hate that even more!!!

I still think that giving the bride a wedding video book (we had a substantial thread here about it) is also a big selling device because she gets from videographers, what photogs give the bride, a book, but with instant video instead of pictures.

Chris

Tim Bakland · October 31st, 2014, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Digges

I read over and over again about how still photographers are a mandatory presence at weddings.

Ok... so, even if it's 10% -- that's a LOT of weddings in any market that are being filmed. So the question is not what percentage of the weddings get filmed, it's what percentage of the filmed weddings are you filming. Or, even more precisely: it's what percentage of the amount of work you want to do yourself you are filling....

Give the brides and grooms a reason for them to have YOU film their wedding. Don't worry about all the other videographers and their overall slice of the wedding pie (cake?).

Arthur Gannis · November 1st, 2014, 10:11 AM

I see that different parts of the world ( UK and Aus) seem to have a low percentage of video bookings vs photography. Here in USA there is about 80% ( 4 out of 5 on average) of all the weddings that have photos have video in them as well. Almost every job I do has the photog in the package. And likewise when I am the photog as well. If I were in the area of a low percentage of video, I would really make some serious appointments with florists, wedding planners, limo services, dressmakers, jewelers, yes jewelers as they do need to buy those wedding and engagement rings don't they?, I would see and talk to restaurants that also have small wedding and social events to cater, I would check out everybody that had anything to do with weddings even musicians and DJ's. Of course, the trick here, which I used to do back then is to offer a flat rate referral fee ONLY if the referral booked, signed and left a deposit. I dealt with 3 wedding planners that asked for a high percentage of the booked price, like 20-25%. I bit the bullet but got many jobs from them. I gave them a list of video prices to ponder over and they would call me back just asking me if I was available that day for package #3 or so. I would only deal with the planner for the money end of it. I would on occasion get a cheque for the full payment IN ADVANCE minus the referral fee. Now I get most ofl my bookings from client referrals, no fees to pay. I keep my prices low and affordable with minimal editing on my part. Content is what I give.

Arthur Gannis · November 2nd, 2014, 09:31 AM

Just got a referral from a women's hair salon that one of her client's daughter is getting married next year. Women at hair salons talk a lot to each other, gossips & all, and all know each other like family. I got a few referrals from them in the past and I always drop in when I am in the area to say hello and offer them coffee. It helps to show your presence. Also, because I edit all my work within a day or two after the event(s), I have lots of time to go out and meet people related to the business. An editor chained down to the desk has little or no time to make person to person contacts and is reliant only to advertise on the web, web site, social media etc.
Personality goes a long way, the more you meet the more chances to book.

October 30th, 2014, 09:34 PM	#1
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business I read over and over again about how still photographers are a mandatory presence at weddings. Then you say, videographers are hired at about ten percent of weddings. So... here is my idea, create a paradigm shift. Technology is on your side. We all know video is easier to use and share than ever before, but I don't think a lot of your potential clients know how easy that is. If I was a wedding guy I would have one of my web pages and a printed piece of paper (for face to face meetings) declaring all of the potential uses for the video. It would be a "Did you know?" document. Everyone knows the benefit of still photos: They hang on your walls and make your house a warm personal place. They go in albums to record your life history. They go on coffee mugs. They are your screen saver, etc. etc etc. The list is long! Why don't you guys compile a list of the benefits of video here for everyone to use because the general public is not aware of much it: For example: Did you know YouTube accounts are free? Did you know your videos can be password protected so no one sees them except the people with the password? Did you know you can send an e-mail to anyone you want to see your video? Did you know there is a site called Vimeo where you can do the same thing and it is very high quality. It is free too. Did you know your family and friends can download your video from these sites because you gave them permission to? Did you know I WILL put your video on the sites you choose so this will happen? Lets see what you guys can come up with to educate your potential customers so your video is not seen as just a DVD that gets watched once and collects dust after that. Technology is on your side, but the parents paying for the wedding don't know that. Educate them. Your product has value and uses the potential client is not even aware of! Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

October 31st, 2014, 02:45 AM	#2
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business Nice one Steve! I think the one BIG issue is that brides tend to book the venue, the photog, the chairs, cake and a whole lot else THEN decide "Ooh..we should have a video but do we have any money left?" My method of circumventing being way down on the pecking order is to do combined packages. The moment you say Photography and video you are zoomed to the top of the priority list and if you can achieve that then selling the advantages of video is easy. I seldom get any brides asking for a wedding video nowdays ..they all want the combined package which means they are a 99% cert to book. Yes I agree 100% with your points but I still feel that video is only 10% of the market simply because brides place more importance on chair sashes!! The problem is HOW do you get to brides offering just video before they have spent all their money on other things ... Us offering photo and video packages we get looked at much earlier and then selling the video concept is much easier because she still has a fairly good amount of her budget left. Chris

October 31st, 2014, 01:22 PM	#5
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business Do you have an example how that gif looks like?

October 31st, 2014, 02:07 PM	#6
Robert Benda Trustee Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Crookston, MN Posts: 1,353	Re: Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business Not sure about GIFs on Facebook and such, though a Vine might work, too. As for what it should look like, I don't have the excellent B&G one I saw, where they're holding hands on a rooftop, looking over the city, but here is one: http://cinemagraphs.com/images/demo/...rkle-1-429.gif

October 31st, 2014, 02:35 PM	#7
David Barnett Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Philly, PA Posts: 951	Re: Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business I think the fact the a printed picture is a tangible object trumps all the appeals to video. Media changes, media formats change, viewing habits change, who knows if youtube & vimeo will really be as big in 10-20 years etc... Whatever the case, they can still hold on to their picture book. Its like your trying to sell a manual transmission car to someone who only wants to drive an automatic. You can try selling them on it's Bose surround sound, power windows, keyfab pushbutton start, sunroof, leather seats, built in GPS, wifi & Pandora, $2000 under MSRP, etc etc etc.... They'll still want an automatic.

October 31st, 2014, 12:25 PM	#3
Robert Benda Trustee Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Crookston, MN Posts: 1,353	Re: Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business My philosophy is to try and figure out as many ways as is reasonable for the client AND their family/friends to enjoy the video and to get our name in front of the extended group. I make the long form for the brides, but the short form (15 minutes) is for repeat viewings and stronger emotional impact. Maybe now that I've got more experience and am more efficient with my editing, I'll start making a trailer. I'm also VERY much trying to figure out how to use the GIFs that some photogs already use. For us, I think they'd go great on our websites (since auto-play video is the devil), or to use as attention getters on social media when posting their videos. Our photo booth add-on is also a great attention getter - we print the photos, then post the gallery to facebook, along with a stop-motion video of the pics. Guests have the option to leave us their email. We post it before they go to work on Monday. At a good event, several hundred people will see that material with our name all over it.

October 31st, 2014, 04:11 PM	#9
Roger Gunkel Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: LIncolnshire, UK Posts: 2,213	Re: Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business I'm completely with Chris on this (again). As nearly all weddings have a photographer, we offer a joint video and photography package which has really taken off since we started offering it. Those that may not previously have looked at video, are looking at the photography side and that gives us the chance to explain how we integrate the video and photography in a package that saves them overall cost but gives them so much more. Photographers at wedding shows hate it, so we must be doing something right :-) Roger

October 31st, 2014, 05:54 PM	#12
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business Ani GIF's are very cheesy and I do agree with Noa here! They might OK for low class advertising but certainly not for video. Sorta much the same as the billboard on the highway that promotes the roadhouse down further with a mechanical arm that raises and lowers a cup to the character's mouth. My wife does photos for me (mostly when I'm on video) and there is a long period at the reception where there is really no need for a photog at all so we put up a simple white backdrop in the corner, have a bag with some funny hats and wigs and voila we have an open photobooth. Wow, that is popular and so simple too. That has also made selling video a whole lot easier as we can offer photography, video and a photobooth and the wife doesn't get bored at receptions either. Photogs hate that even more!!! I still think that giving the bride a wedding video book (we had a substantial thread here about it) is also a big selling device because she gets from videographers, what photogs give the bride, a book, but with instant video instead of pictures. Chris

November 1st, 2014, 10:11 AM	#14
Arthur Gannis Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey USA Posts: 504	Re: Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business I see that different parts of the world ( UK and Aus) seem to have a low percentage of video bookings vs photography. Here in USA there is about 80% ( 4 out of 5 on average) of all the weddings that have photos have video in them as well. Almost every job I do has the photog in the package. And likewise when I am the photog as well. If I were in the area of a low percentage of video, I would really make some serious appointments with florists, wedding planners, limo services, dressmakers, jewelers, yes jewelers as they do need to buy those wedding and engagement rings don't they?, I would see and talk to restaurants that also have small wedding and social events to cater, I would check out everybody that had anything to do with weddings even musicians and DJ's. Of course, the trick here, which I used to do back then is to offer a flat rate referral fee ONLY if the referral booked, signed and left a deposit. I dealt with 3 wedding planners that asked for a high percentage of the booked price, like 20-25%. I bit the bullet but got many jobs from them. I gave them a list of video prices to ponder over and they would call me back just asking me if I was available that day for package #3 or so. I would only deal with the planner for the money end of it. I would on occasion get a cheque for the full payment IN ADVANCE minus the referral fee. Now I get most ofl my bookings from client referrals, no fees to pay. I keep my prices low and affordable with minimal editing on my part. Content is what I give.

November 2nd, 2014, 09:31 AM	#15
Arthur Gannis Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey USA Posts: 504	Re: Hopefully, a productive thread to gain more business Just got a referral from a women's hair salon that one of her client's daughter is getting married next year. Women at hair salons talk a lot to each other, gossips & all, and all know each other like family. I got a few referrals from them in the past and I always drop in when I am in the area to say hello and offer them coffee. It helps to show your presence. Also, because I edit all my work within a day or two after the event(s), I have lots of time to go out and meet people related to the business. An editor chained down to the desk has little or no time to make person to person contacts and is reliant only to advertise on the web, web site, social media etc. Personality goes a long way, the more you meet the more chances to book.