So where do we go from here? (whats next in video?)

[David Barnett]

I agree mixing services (photo/.video) but also photo/video booths (slo-mo). Moreso tho, I think livestreaming ceremonies will likely be requested for families out of state & as youths tend to move away & get married elsewhere. Sure their parents will likely come but grandparents/aunts etc might like to watch.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Clive McLaughlin

Am I completely missing the point?

Somebody give me an example - show me a film and tell me the 'story' that that film is supposed to be telling me by the way it was filmed and cut.

Here is an interesting article for you to read on the subject: This One's DifferentBecause It's Us | Stillmotion

[Malcolm Debono]

Originally Posted by Clive McLaughlin

Its an occassion, which you filmed. certain things were said, certain things were filmed - you get to choose the order, but we can't chnage the story of the day.

Am I completely missing the point?

Somebody give me an example - show me a film and tell me the 'story' that that film is supposed to be telling me by the way it was filmed and cut.

Way I see it, you're not changing the story of the day. You're just altering the way it's told in order to look better visually. This is the same reasoning as a lot of other creative choices that are done both on the day (such as choice of composition) and during post (such as choice of music).

There's absolutely nothing wrong with your methodology though. It's just seeing things from a different perspective, and I'm sure there are plenty of couples who are looking for just that.

Here's an example of one of my recent trailers:

Wedding Trailer: Anna & Michael on Vimeo

I consider this to be quite chronological as shot-wise only the preps are out of place. The ceremony is the central storyline since that's the most crucial moment of the wedding. I've selected parts of speeches made later on after dinner as VO to complement my shots. Sure, it would work well without them, but for the bride to hear her father saying how radiant she looked and how proud he is of her whilst watching shots of them together is much more emotional. The preps shots are linked to the main storyline by having the bride's father waiting for her near the stairs, which then cuts to father walking her down the aisle.

This concept can obviously be expanded in many ways, so if you need more examples look up Ray Roman and Rob Adams.

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Here is an interesting article for you to read on the subject: This One's DifferentBecause It's Us | Stillmotion

A perfect example of wedding film makers so up their own arses with their Art with a capital 'A' that they have lost sight of what recording the wedding is all about. To quote:-

There are some weddings where we don’t even show the ceremony — if it doesn’t fit in with the best story we can tell, it doesn’t need to be in the film.

A basic problem with a wedding day from a storytelling perspective is that the climax of the story i.e. the ceremony & vows actually takes place chronologically in the middle of the event which is why people will time-shift while editing.

[Noa Put]

Thank you for putting in words what I have been thinking as well Nigel :D My limited English prevents me from describing it so elegantly.

It's mainly a way to sell yourself, giving the client the idea it's all about themselves while my impression from many clients is that don't want focus that much on themselves but mainly on what happens around them, that's a part they often don't see or it happens so quickly they forget about it, they want the video to help them remember how it feels.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Clive

We all have different views of how to tell a story but some are simply shocking and are just a bunch of randomly chosen clips that fit into a music track.

I thought that the video below really does it well as short as it is as each sequence that follows the previous one makes sense.

Katelyn + Austin on Vimeo

This was on another group I visit done by a lady called Whitney Bohner ... I found it well sequenced and the audio/music was nicely edited too. Due to the settings you need to click the "Watch on Vimeo" button

Chris

[Roger Van Duyn]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Here is an interesting article for you to read on the subject: This One's DifferentBecause It's Us | Stillmotion

Wow Noa, that is interesting. Some wedding film producers take a lot of artistic license. I think maybe that type of film about the couple shouldn't even be called a wedding video at all. It makes me think the producers would really like to make a scripted film with the couple being the leading actors. And if that concept is stretched a little farther, the producers could audition actors to play the part of the couple for the producer's film. Wasn't there a film called " Snow " or something like that produced a few years ago about a Scandanavian couple? That was definitely following a written script.

Other guys, like you and me, provide a service to the couple by making a recording of their special day, and take a minimum of artistic license, while still giving attention to the crafts of good camera work and editing.

OF course, I also shoot corporate, and am gradually getting into more scripting of those. For instance, commercials and infomercials instead of traditional testimonials, speeches, product demos etc. Some of my recent jobs have been working for other production companies on scripted works. Now, I've taken what I've learned and started doing more storyboarding, and helping on screen talent "write their scripts."

But as for weddings, I'll NEVER try to script those. They are "family historical documents." I might be the producer of the "film" and I hate calling it that, but never the director or script writer.

Especially during the ceremony, people should hardly notice that I'm even there.

[Robert Benda]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

A perfect example of wedding film makers so up their own arses with their Art with a capital 'A' that they have lost sight of what recording the wedding is all about.

I will defend that work with this idea: sometimes the point isn't the wedding itself, but the couple. If that's the case, then the couple went to the right people for more of a movie about themselves, than about their wedding day. I've got no problem with that. It's really a different service than the one most of us provide.

A smaller difference between most of us is whether we stick to the 'family historical document' or the the highlight style with some time shifting (or a lot), which isn't a historical record, but focuses on emotional impact using story elements and sound tracking.

No big deal. They serve different functions and are for different clients.

I really don't like the 'historical document' style personally, which is why I make our 15 minute highlight films. They appeal to me, so I enjoy the work more.

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi all, I've been absent for a good many weeks, due to uprooting home and business to a few miles further north, coupled with the busiest Summer we have ever had. We moved on July 18th, hottest day of the year and in that same week, we had four weddings, three with photos and video and four school productions!!!

So this seemed a good thread to come back on:-) Nice to see the same debates continuing on where to head next. Some very good points and arguments made, although I was very interested to see nobody supporting the idea of solo video/photo shoots. The argument against seems to be that you can't actually do either well if you are doing both. I would have to disagree with that, as both Claire and I have filmed and photographed a considerable number of weddings this year. Three of those have already led to recommendations to confirmed bookings next year.

There is no need to compromise on quality if you plan properly and are totally confident with your equipment. It is also vitally important to know exactly what your clients expectations are and to ensure that they see and are totally satisfied with examples of your work. I NEVER take a booking without meeting the clients and showing them examples and NEVER take a booking on a visit. That may be alien to most here, but it ensures that they are completely happy with their choice when they come back to me. It has also given us our most successful year in 30 years.

As regards being different, unique, quirky, individual etc WHY? All of us here have produced or seen other videos that contain similar shots and 'boring' sequences that are repeated year after year, but it is easy to forget that it is only us that see these repeated shots. For the couples and their families, their own wedding video is unique, a capturing of that one special day in their life. As for the artsy and highly technical offerings, yes they are beautifully crafted and probably incredibly satisfying to the producer and their client, as well as being much admired by their peers. However, that end of the market probably caters for a tiny percentage of the wedding video total and as we know, video generally accounts for 10% max of the wedding market.

I worked with a separate photographer a couple of months back, who was very expensive and did none of the basic stills that I would have taken, such as rings with the bouquet, kiss in the back of the car and many other cheesy repetitive shots. He maintained that they were old fashioned and outdated. I took some off my own back to use in the end credits and was interested to find when I delivered the video, that the couple were really disappointed that the photographer hadn't got similar shots and were over the moon to see mine. That was a totally unsolicited response, but one that should be a warning to ensure that what you do is what the couple want.

We all have our own way of working and mine with video, is to capture the couple's day without shaping it or intruding on it in any way. To do that, I need to have a lightweight setup that enables me to move quickly while retaining stability and be unobtrusive. That applies to my video and photography, without heavy and time consuming ancillary equipment. The story is already there, it starts in the morning and finishes in the evening. I don't need to restructure or add emotion, I just need to be totally tuned in to what is actually happening.

Finally, I attended my biggest wedding show of the year last weekend and there were three video companies and 10 photographers. All the video companies offered photography and two of the photographers also offered low level video clips. So the photographers have so much competition that they want to add video and the videographers have a tiny percentage of the market so they also offer photography - Interesting!!

Roger

[David Barnett]

Is the (occasionally unneeded) demand for 4K lurking around the corner? Or do you feel that's just kinda a marketing thing that really won't ever take over or be needed, like 3D?

[Steve Burkett]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Is the (occasionally unneeded) demand for 4K lurking around the corner? Or do you feel that's just kinda a marketing thing that really won't ever take over or be needed, like 3D?

I've already filmed a Wedding, where due to budget reasons, the couple didn't hire a Photographer. I shot a Marryoke, the days filming all at 4K and provided hq stills from the day as a photoalbum. Similarly in churches where the Photographer has been banished to the back of the church and I'm allowed up front, I shoot 4K and provide stills, which have been very much appreciated. So yes there's a market out there for 4K to produce video and photo, if you pitch it right.

[Noa Put]

The last few weddings I have had guests coming over to me asking, "is that a 4K camera?" (my ax100 has a big 4k logo on the side) I never had anyone come to me asking if I shoot HD so it seems people are aware about the new technology but each time they ask me, "whats the advantage?"

I tell them it will be more detailed on a regular HD screen but that they need a big 4K screen to see the real benefit.

I see the first 4K tv hit the stores below 1K but they are only 40 inch in size, tv's between 49 and 85 inch go from 1800 dollar up 13000 dollar. Only when these 4K screen price drops to a level of what you today would pay for a HD screen it will enter households much faster then you would expect but as long as it's twice the price or more for 49+ inch screens regular HD screens will be prefered by many.

Whether it is needed is another question, not for the client right now but for us videographers it certainly is, I have experience major benefits from shooting 4K.

[Craig McKenna]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

The last few weddings I have had guests coming over to me asking, "is that a 4K camera?" (my ax100 has a big 4k logo on the side) I never had anyone come to me asking if I shoot HD so it seems people are aware about the new technology but each time they ask me, "whats the advantage?"

I tell them it will be more detailed on a regular HD screen but that they need a big 4K screen to see the real benefit.

I see the first 4K tv hit the stores below 1K but they are only 40 inch in size, tv's between 49 and 85 inch go from 1800 dollar up 13000 dollar. Only when these 4K screen price drops to a level of what you today would pay for a HD screen it will enter households much faster then you would expect but as long as it's twice the price or more for 49+ inch screens regular HD screens will be prefered by many.

Whether it is needed is another question, not for the client right now but for us videographers it certainly is, I have experience major benefits from shooting 4K.

Definitely agree with you Noa.

My main issue with 4K for the masses is that the regular broadcasting channels in the UK, such as BBC, STILL DON'T supply all of their programmes in HD, which shows how far behind the major broadcasting channels can be/currently are.

Therefore, it's going to be like 3D at first (but progress much further afterwards): the only time users will truly benefit from 4K will be when they are watching a movie.

Either way, the prices are dropping significantly and soon they'll be plenty affordable.

[Peter Riding]

Hey Roger I'd been wondering where you'd got to. Thanks for clearing that up :- ) And for stating that men can indeed multi-task!

Pete

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi Pete, nice to be back having got some of the backlog cleared up :-)

I find doing photography and video solo, as quite liberating, with total control over timing positioning and all the other things that are a compromise when working with a separate photographer. It's even easier when working with my wife as we simply share both tasks, but we also both love working solo.

Roger